Identity, Jaffna, Peace and Conflict, Post-War

Jaffna: Moments of Nostalgia

I worked hard for that FIRST KISS
And a heart don’t forget something like that
Like an old photograph
Time can make a feeling fade
But the memory of a FIRST KISS
Never fades away!
~ Samuel Timothy McGraw ~ American Country Musician and Actor

I always feel enchanted, whenever I travel to Jaffna by bullock cart, bicycle, car, foot, helicopter, jeep, motorbike, plane, ship, train or even through Kilali lagoon during difficult times. Journey to Jaffna ~ may it be before the war, during the war or after the war, I always cherish the memories of Jaffna which is closer to my heart.

Jaffna which is beautifully called “Yaazhpaanam” in Tamil. It is famous for its unique architecture, tradition, cuisine, rituals and festivals. According to 2007 statistics, Jaffna district’s population was 650,720 (1,85,405 families). Jaffna district is geographically divided into Valikaamam, Vadamaraatchchi, Thenmaraatchchi and Jaffna Islands. It has an area of 1,025 square kilometres (approximately 395.8 square miles).

Jaffna as it today begins to bustle with visitors and new businesses. Beautifully woven Palmyrah products in bulk cross the Pannai Lagoon, and decorate the stalls. Old statues still stand in line as landmarks are cleaned and painted and polished. Travellers from the rest of the country storm the stalls to buy authentic Jaffna products

Bicycles ~ the common mode of transport for women, children and children in Jaffna take the lead as usual on highways, streets and alleys. Sometimes, the whole family travels on a bicycle which can be often witnessed in the Peninsula. Men and boys whistle and ride, if their bicycles do not have bells. Women, of course, ride carefully with full gear! “Wow! Women in Jaffna are so brave and manoeuver through vehicles without getting hit” mentioned by my fellow foreign journalist while visiting Jaffna in 2000.

The heart that truly loves, never forgets people and place!

  • magerata

    Thank you Dushiyanthini, Just like I saw Jaffna, a few months ago. It is still difficult for me to understand the phases people in Jaffna have gone over the ages, yet manage to be human. They were so very nice to us.

  • DushiYanthini

    People of Jaffna are very hospitable and humble, although they lead a simple life!!!!!

  • niranjan

    Dushiyanthini,

    I am from the South and have never visited Jaffna. I am of a generation that grew up during the war and as such Jaffna is a far off land-a land of war.

    Even though the war is over I feel that it will take two generations from now for North and South to be reconciled. That is if it does happen at all.

    There is too much cynicism in the South as regards the North.

  • Santhi

    Thanks for first hand report Congrarulations to free lance photo jurnalist Photos speek no lies and we can see what is hapening tofday
    Having lived in Jaffna from 1930s duirng colonial rule prior to
    Independance in 1948 and after Many Tamil residenc now even though happy yet feel they are yet under foreign Militery rule with excessive abductions, killing robbery and intimidations at eletions not giving a chance for the people of N & E to be governed by the people for the people and of the people Tamils & Muslims in N/E yet feel Civil administratio should be by Public Officers and not Militery or by Militents who are given a free hand by Militery When this is ended
    and Authorty is given to Civi;l & judicial officers in N/E that people will feel free

  • eureka

    Narrow spectrum of photos can lie best – visitors/photographers can choose what they photograph.

    If you have to live in Jaffna peninsula:

    http://groundviews.org/2011/03/17/jaffna-and-the-vanni-today-the-reality-beneath-the-rhetoric/
    Jaffna and the Vanni today: The reality beneath the rhetoric, 17 March 2011:

    http://www.speroforum.com/site/article.asp?id=50348&t=Sri+Lanka%3A+++Young+Tamils+in+Mannar+and+Jaffna+still+live+in+fear
    Sri Lanka: Young Tamils in Mannar and Jaffna still live in fear, 16 March 2011:

    http://www.lankaenews.com/English/news.php?id=10832
    What is truly going on after the war in the North Sri Lanka? ‘LeN expose’ after the tour, 16 March 2011:

    http://www.ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=54849
    NGOs Face Funding Gap and Government Scrutiny, 15 March 2011

    http://www.caffesrilanka.org/21,000_voiceless,_voteless_-5-2688.html
    21,000 voiceless, voteless, 4 March 2011

    Some journalists can’t make it:

    REASONS FOR SRI LANKA’S CONTINUING IMAGE PROBLEM, Chairman, National Peace Council, 28 February 2011: ‘’The journalists said that they had gone the previous day to get permission to travel to the North. But their request had been denied.’’

    I reently met a Sinhalese in Colombo who couldn’t get MoD clearance to go to the North.

    Perhaps you have to prove that you won’t be critical of the government.

    • Sivaraja

      Eureka

      You are right !!

      DushiYanthini photo essay has a narrow spectrum. Not Sinhalese soldiers, no ruins of the bombed buildings . Why DushiYanthini gloss over the reality on the ground in Jaffna ? A prime land for sale ? A phony tourist brochure ? Ahhh… how convenient and comfy to ignore the torment and despair of the defeated slaves !!

      • wijayapala

        Dear Sivarajah

        DushiYanthini photo essay has a narrow spectrum.

        Sorry you feel that way. Why don’t you go to Jaffna yourself and take pictures of the Sinhala soldiers, instead of sitting here crying about it?

    • M. Arunan

      Eureka, so whats your point,because all the links that you share here do exist on the cyberspace, the images in this post lie?

      Sence of narmality is every humanbeing’s dream, after decades pf mayhem . Any space that exists is a channel for the lights to enter.

  • silva

    ”Any space that exists is a channel for the lights to enter”. True.
    Very true.

    But the army of occupation is trying to extinguish every chink of light:

    Isn’t the country overmilitarised enough?
    What’s the need of the hour?
    Is it pillage of the future of the students and their society?
    Is it preventing the recovery of the society?
    Is it peacebuilding?

    http://www.tamilnet.com/art.html?catid=13&artid=33687
    SL Army appropriates heritage institution in Jaffna for ‘cadet’ training
    [TamilNet, Friday, 18 March 2011, 09:13 GMT]
    The building of Arya-Dravida Bhasha Abhivrtti Sangam, a heritage institution that was started in Jaffna in the early 20th century was appropriated a few days ago by the occupying SL military to conduct ‘cadet’ training for school students of Jaffna. T. Sadasiva Aiyar, an education officer of the colonial times, started this heritage institution that was conducting Pandit and Bala Pandit courses and examinations. The institution later became a constituent body of the Ceylon government’s education office in the north and thus was inherited by colonial Sri Lanka occupying the country of Eezham Tamils. The occupying SL military now pressed the SL education officials in Jaffna to hand over the building located at Koddadi in the heart of Jaffna city to the military. ….

  • TT

    Jaffna had over 20,000 Sinhalese in 1971. They had a unique culture, traditions and existence. In fact they held the key to a unique way of peaceful coexistence. But they were subject to complete genocide following the Vadukoddai Resolution. Their numbers fell to around 4,000 by 1981 and after the war started their numbers fell to zero.

    Similarly Muslims were also subject to complete genocide in Jaffna where their numbers fell from over 15,000 to zero today.

    Nagadeepa in Jaffna is one of 16 most sacred Buddhist places of worship of Sinhalese and it celebrates the oldest religious event in the north.

    It is a must to bring back multiethnic coexistence to Jaffna. Army camps cannot do that. Government should carry out a mass colonization process targeting the north by creating multiethnic settlements.

    Jafna has a choice – go back to multiethnicity or become a military garrison. Of course there are other nasty choices including war, fall under LTTE control, fall under IPKF control, etc.

  • Lankan Thinker

    TT,

    You said Jaffna had over 20,000 Sinhalese in 1971. They had a unique culture, traditions and existence. In fact they held the key to a unique way of peaceful coexistence. But they were subject to complete genocide following the Vadukoddai Resolution.

    But according to the census data (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaffna_District#Demographics) the Sinhalese population of Jaffna was only 4516 in 1946, and 5630 in 1963. How did the almost 15000 Sinhalese who came to Jaffna between 1963 and 1971 have a “unique culture, traditions and existence”?? Weren’t they simply migrants from the south?

    Also, note that in 1981, 5 years after the Vadukoddai Resolution was made, there were 4615 Sinhalese in Jaffna. Pretty much the same number as were living in Jaffna at independence! How was this possible if the Sinhalese of the North were subjected to systematic racism?

    You said Jafna has a choice – go back to multiethnicity or become a military garrison.

    The government also has a choice – to recognise that the Tamil people of Sri Lanka are also fellow human beings and citizens of our island nation, and treat them with equal respect and dignity; or to treat them as a conquered people, subjected to indignities such as forced registration, seizure of land and property, etc. Who has more power to make these choices? The people of Jaffna, or the government? I believe that if the government follows the former choice, multi-ethnicity will be the natural end point. However, the ends should not justify the means.

    • TT

      LT,

      You deliberately missed the 1971 census figure!!

      If you look at the 1963-1971 change, they shared the same culture as the remaining Sinhalse in Jaffna. The same thing goes with tamils in Colombo. Any one coming to Colombo will become part of the Colombo Tamil society.

      Racism is the thing it shows!

      Otherwise when the Jaffna district population was increasing by a massive number, how come the Sinhalese population number reduce to what it was 35 years before!!! It was due to the VR and the racism it spread. In contrast Tamil population numers grew enormously in Colombo even after 1983.

      Government has ALREADY given Tamil persons equal rights. So they have done their part. It is now up to Tamils to make their choice.

      However, government has a bigger responsibility towards the nation and the remaining population too. That is to colonize the north with people of all ethnicities.

      • Lankan Thinker

        TT,

        I didn’t ignore the 1971 figure (although you seemed to ignore all the other figures in your original post!) If you read my post again I acknowledge that the Sinhala population of Jaffna increased by almost 15000 between 1963 and 1971. My point was that I don’t see how the Sinhala people that migrated to the north during this period had a particularly unique culture or traditions.

        The reduction of Sinhalese from 1971 to 1981 could also be ascribed to the migrant population simply not being able to make the economic progress they hoped for due to factors like not speaking the local language or not having any success in whatever enterprise they tried to start.

        Basically, I don’t think the census data proves anything about the attitudes of the people, either way. So you need to provide additional evidence that racism was the majority view in the North. For example, was there any organised violence against the Sinhala residents of Jaffna in the period 1971-1981?

      • TT

        LT,

        That increase is nothing compared to the increase in Tamils in Colombo!

        There was organised violence against them between 1971 to 1981 including the vadukoddai resolution, a few riots too.

        Sinhalese in Jaffna would have felt EXACTLY the same way how Jews felt under Nazi (continuing to dominate) Germany after 1935 before full horror broke out. VR resolved to create TAMIL ELAM in the north and the east. Needless to say it is TAMIL Elam which by itself excludes Sinhalese, Muslims.

        Well, they did chase these ethnic groups away anyway which shows the intention.

        If the country I live in suddenly change the name (or its most powerful politicians resolve to do so) to a RACIALLY or ETHNICALY exclusive racial name, I will get out of there (if I’m of a different race/ethnicity).

        Anyway what should happen now is more important. Government should settle people of all races in the north. That is the only solution to the so called ethnic problem from a Sri Lankan POV.

      • Lankan Thinker

        TT,

        To said: That increase is nothing compared to the increase in Tamils in Colombo!

        Would you at least agree that migration to Colombo, by whatever ethnicity, is (a) not supported by the government (i.e. no land grants, no financial state financial support); and (b) not motivated by a wish to gain political control of the city, but rather by simple economic need?

        How is this comparable to the state sponsored migration into the north and east? As I mentioned in another post, I have no problem with the state helping poor people gain a livelihood by giving them land in different parts of the country. However, this should be done in a transparent manner that is demonstrably blind to ethnicity, religion, caste or other factors other than income level and economic need.

        You also said: There was organised violence against them between 1971 to 1981 including the vadukoddai resolution, a few riots too.

        Could you help me understand this better by giving some references to reports of the riots you refer to? Was the violence directed at the Sinhalese in general, or at representatives of the government?

        Also, I don’t see how the Vadukoddai Resolution itself was an act of organised violence against the Sinhalese. I am sure you’ve heard the childhood rhyme “Sticks and stones might break my bones but words could never hurt me” .. isn’t the Vadukkodai Resolution an instance of the latter (ie. just words) rather than in instance of organised violence?

        Also, my understanding is that the Vadukkodai Resolution was the culmination of the frustration of the Tamils having experienced little consideration from the ruling parties of the time – from the lack of recognition for their language, the disenfranchisement of the hill-country Tamils, the abrogation of the political agreements they negotiated with the ruling parties and also the violent response to their attempts to protest against the government. Basically, there were many things that happened before the Vadukkodai Resolution was passed and the Sinhalese-led governments of that time must share responsibility for a number of those things.

        Finally, you said: Anyway what should happen now is more important. Government should settle people of all races in the north. That is the only solution to the so called ethnic problem from a Sri Lankan POV.

        Thankfully, it looks like the government are ignoring your advice (at least for the time being) and focussing on infrastructure development and resettlement of the those displaced by the war in the north and east.

      • TT

        LT,

        It does NOT matter who sponsors their move. What matters is it should happen.

        VR is a manifestation of raw racism to create Tamil Elam a racist name in itself!

        It depends on what you read. If you ALSO read Tamilnet you will see things ARE happening, thankfully. What I say is it is not enough. There should be state sponsorship for MASS COLONISATION of the north as a solution to the ethnic politics and related problems.

      • TT, it doesn’t matter to you because you prefer to believe that there’s no difference between colonisation and immigration. In reality there’s a big difference. The former will not happen without sponsorship.

      • TT

        DB,

        This rubbish of “colonization” exists only in SL when SLs move to north! This is a dirty racist joke. State sponsorship does not matter as long as immigration/colonization happens WITHIN SL.

        And it MUST happen for there to be peace.

  • wijayapala

    TT,

    There was organised violence against them between 1971 to 1981 including the vadukoddai resolution, a few riots too.

    Could you please show evidence of violence against Sinhalese in Jaffna during that time period.

    • TT

      Wijayapala,

      1. Vadukoddai Resolution. It calls for the creation of TAMIL Elam. In Tamil Elam is used to denote the entire island nation of SL. TAMIL Elam would therefore mean a nation/state for Tamils in the island. What it means for non-Tamils is to get out. How would you like living in SL if it’s name was Sinhala Nation? Also those who supported VR called for violence against the Sinhalese.

      2. There were riots in the north and east against Sinhalese in the not so distant past instigated by the SAME CROWD!

      e.g. 1958 riots where Sarath Fonseka’s family of five was pursued by Tamil hooligans and they had to spend 3 days/nights in a mountain in Ampara.

      3. There was actual violence against Sinhalese in the north in 1972 (against Tamils in the south). Once again the same thing in 1977.

      4. There is an allegation that Mrs Amirthalingam threatened in 1977 to use extreme violence (too barbaric to state here) against Sinhalese. She NEVER denied these allegations although Mr Amirthalingam denied them.

      How about the leader of the political party that wins the district you are living threatens to use such violence against your ethnic group? Will you stay?

      • SD

        Dear TT,

        RE: “There is an allegation that Mrs Amirthalingam threatened in 1977 to use extreme violence (too barbaric to state here) against Sinhalese. She NEVER denied these allegations although Mr Amirthalingam denied them.”

        [Edited out]

      • “1. Vadukoddai Resolution. It calls for the creation of TAMIL Elam. In Tamil Elam is used to denote the entire island nation of SL.”

        Can you quote any part of the VR that states TE will occupy the entire island?

        “TAMIL Elam would therefore mean a nation/state for Tamils in the island. What it means for non-Tamils is to get out. How would you like living in SL if it’s name was Sinhala Nation?”

        Wouldn’t it be the same as living in an SL that is a Sinhalese nation?

        “Also those who supported VR called for violence against the Sinhalese.”

        And those who supported Sinhala Only called for violence against the Tamils.

        “2. There were riots in the north and east against Sinhalese in the not so distant past instigated by the SAME CROWD!”

        Can you link to any news stories or historical articles that confirm this?

        “e.g. 1958 riots where Sarath Fonseka’s family of five was pursued by Tamil hooligans and they had to spend 3 days/nights in a mountain in Ampara.”

        Just because one family was attacked doesn’t mean that there was a riot.

        “3. There was actual violence against Sinhalese in the north in 1972 (against Tamils in the south). Once again the same thing in 1977.”

        Can you link to any news articles reporting such violence?

        “4. There is an allegation that Mrs Amirthalingam threatened in 1977 to use extreme violence (too barbaric to state here) against Sinhalese. She NEVER denied these allegations although Mr Amirthalingam denied them.”

        Do you have any proof of this allegation? More importantly, any proof of these threats being carried out?

        “How about the leader of the political party that wins the district you are living threatens to use such violence against your ethnic group? Will you stay?”

        Do you have any evidence of such threats?

      • wijayapala

        TT, in none of your points did you provide evidence that there was organised violence against Sinhalese in Jaffna from 1971-1981.

      • TT

        DB,1. “Vadukoddai Resolution. It calls for the creation of TAMIL Elam. In Tamil Elam is used to denote the entire island nation of SL.”

        My bad here. It should be corrected as, “In Tamil, Elam is used to denote the entire island nation of SL.”

        2. DB, it was not one family that was attacked! 🙂 It is an EXAMPLE of what happened to Sinhalese in 1958 in general. This event against Sinhalese was so bad that young SF made up his mind to root out these violent groups altogether. And he did a damn good job at that! 😉

        3. Plenty in print media. Few in the internet.

        4. Plenty in BOTH print and electronic media. The fact that Mr Amrithalingam denying it proves that some people beleived it to be true! AA had to intevene and dispel it.

        No to the last question. No, because there’s NEVER been (and never should be) comparable violent threats.

        One more thing. The 1976 VR is a copy of the 1935 Nuremberg Laws of NAZI party. I have explained this before in detail (with a bit of humour too as regards Parkinson’s disease affceting both AH and SJVC!) 🙂

        Sinhalese in the north ran for their lives (statistics show this) without suffering the same fate the Jews suffered in the hands of the violent NAZIs. Had the Jews ran away likewise after the NLs in 1935, many would have survived the Holocaust. MEANWHILE Sinhalese welcomed Tamils to “south” with OPEN ARMS!

      • TT

        Wijayapala,

        They are! Threat of violence, expectation of violence, actual violence, history of violence by the SAME actors are enough evidence of impending violence.

        AND that was the correct judgement! Subsequent events prooved it! Didn’t they?

        You have to look in the context. By then over 96% of the north was Tamil and Sinhalese were only 1% or less. Imagine they OVERWHELMINGLY voting for a Tamil race centric party that proposes to create TAMIL Elam enforced by threats of violence backed by a history of violence (1958).

        The only different between the genocide of Muslims in Jaffna (1991) and the genocide of Sinhalese in Jaffna is the former was carried out by the LTTE and the latter was carried out by Tamil race centrict VR crowd. In both cases there was not so much bloodshed as in the Holocaust but until the brave Jews, Sinhalese and Muslims didn’t stay back. Had they stayed back what happened to Gongala, Kathanjudi, etc., etc. would have certainly happened to them.

      • “My bad here. It should be corrected as, “In Tamil, Elam is used to denote the entire island nation of SL.””

        Your bad, TT, is in being unable to quote any part of the VR that says this. Since you’re unable to, and since there is no part of the VR that says this, we can take it that as usual you’re making it up.

        “2. DB, it was not one family that was attacked! 🙂 It is an EXAMPLE of what happened to Sinhalese in 1958 in general. This event against Sinhalese was so bad that young SF made up his mind to root out these violent groups altogether. And he did a damn good job at that!”

        Regardless of its effect on SF, if there had been anti-Sinhalese riots as you claim, there would have been reports of it in the media, and records of it in historical accounts. Since you can provide none of these, we can take it that once again you’re just making it up.

        “3. Plenty in print media. Few in the internet.”

        So you’re saying that an even as important as a genocide of the NE Sinhalese took place without a single online reference that you can find? Not even one? I find that unlikely, and am forced to assume that here too you’re simply making stuff up.

        “4. Plenty in BOTH print and electronic media. The fact that Mr Amrithalingam denying it proves that some people beleived it to be true! AA had to intevene and dispel it.”

        Can you quote even one such account of the “plenty” you mention?

        “No to the last question. No, because there’s NEVER been (and never should be) comparable violent threats.”

        So you agree that there were no such threats, even though you earlier claimed that there were? I see 😀

        “One more thing. The 1976 VR is a copy of the 1935 Nuremberg Laws of NAZI party. I have explained this before in detail”

        Actually, you were unable to. Every single portion of the VR you quoted was inaccurate, deliberately misquoted, or nonexistant. The only similarity you could find, and which I conceded, and to which you had no further rejoinder was that the VR and NLs were both created in towns and named after those towns, and that possibly the engineers of both laws suffered from Parkinson’s. 😀

        Here are the two laws which comprise the Nuremberg Laws: 1 The Law for the Protection of German Blood and German Honor (http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Holocaust/nurmlaw2.html ) and 2 The Reich Citizenship Law (http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Holocaust/nurmlaw3.html ). Here is the Vaddukoddai Resolution (http://www.sangam.org/FB_HIST_DOCS/vaddukod.htm ). Please show us which parts of the latter are copied from the former, and please quote verbatim and try not to add words and change parts to suit your argument as you did before. You made a fool of yourself earlier, and I await your unsurpassed ability do so again.

        “Sinhalese in the north ran for their lives (statistics show this) without suffering the same fate the Jews suffered in the hands of the violent NAZIs.”

        But didn’t you say that there was a genocide of the NE Sinhalese? How did this genocide happen if they ran for their lives as you now claim? 😀 Also, can you show us these so-called statistics of yours?

        “Had the Jews ran away likewise after the NLs in 1935, many would have survived the Holocaust.”

        Many tried to but were prevented by the Germans. Didn’t you know this?

        “MEANWHILE Sinhalese welcomed Tamils to “south” with OPEN ARMS!”

        But until 1983 they tried to kill them.

  • wijayapala

    TT, (cont’d)

    Nagadeepa in Jaffna is one of 16 most sacred Buddhist places of worship of Sinhalese and it celebrates the oldest religious event in the north.

    1) The Nagadipa story of Buddha visiting and ending the Naga civil war appears in the Tamil Buddhist epic Manimekalai. Therefore Tamil Buddhists had worshiped there too.

    2) As a Buddhist I have to say that this story is a myth. The Buddha never came to Sri Lanka so Nagadipa is not the oldest religious event in the north.

    • yapa

      Dear wijayapala;

      “2) As a Buddhist I have to say that this story is a myth. The Buddha never came to Sri Lanka so Nagadipa is not the oldest religious event in the north.”

      Again you are too assertive and over confident of your statements

      Thanks!

      • SD

        Quite right Yapa. I too feel that Wijayapala is too assertive in dismissing the possibility of the laws of physics being suspended, despite it having happened many times in the past, for example, when Jesus walked on water. I don’t understand why the Buddha could not have astrally projected himself from Lumbini to Sri Lanka, which is only about 2000km in linear distance, on a mere 3 occasions. Captain Kirk did this in Star Trek, and he was none the worse for it.

        One day, when quantum physicists discover how to replicate state between two whole objects, it will conclusively prove that the Buddha utilized the same method of travel. I would love to see the look on the faces of these naysayers then!

        This is what happens when people are ignorant and arrogantly dismiss possibilities.

        p.s.
        Wijayapala, while trying to find out the distance from Lumbini to Nainativu, I noticed that the wikipedia article, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Sri_Lanka, is in dire need of review, especially its references. I was hoping you could take a look.

      • yapa

        Hi! Dear SD;

        “Quite right Yapa. I too feel that Wijayapala is too assertive in dismissing the possibility of the laws of physics being suspended, despite it having happened many times in the past, for example, when Jesus walked on water. I don’t understand why the Buddha could not have astrally projected himself from Lumbini to Sri Lanka, which is only about 2000km in linear distance, on a mere 3 occasions. Captain Kirk did this in Star Trek, and he was none the worse for it.”

        I think you know that Buddha didn’t want to come here on a motored ship or a Lear Jet to convince you and wijayapala. If he came here so Chulodara or Mahodara would not believe it just as you cannot imagine of unfamiliar modes of transport to you.

        I still cold not convince you that your false notion that “Only what you experience or what you know is true” is incorrect. You don’t know anything that exists outside your domain of “Five Sensory Perception”. You can perceive only things that can make an impact on your five senses only. Laws of Physics applied only to that “realm”,please learn my dear “man of empiricism”.

        However, this is what you have said in your previous post addressed to Heshan,Doubting the ability of the present day Science. What is this inconsistency?
        …………..
        “SD
        March 13, 2011 • 4:16 pm

        Dear Heshan,

        I think you are under the misapprehension that we can isolate every single behaviour to a single gene. That is not the case. Phenotypic effects arise from multiple genes acting in concert. We haven’t even *begun to unravel how their combined effects manifest themselves*. All we’ve plucked so far are the low-hanging fruit – the cases where an effect can be easily correlated to the presence/absence of a few genes. The moment things get more complicated, we are completely in the dark.
        …………..

        Anyway, do you and wijayapala also doubt the arrival of Arahath Mahinda Thero to Missaka Pawwa, which also was not in a Lear Jet or a motored ship? If so, could you or wijapala explain how Buddhism established in Sri Lanka during the period of king Devanampiyatissa? How do you justify Mahinda Thero’s contribution to Sri Lanka if you doubt his air born journey to Sri Lanka, when his Lear Jet did not take of from Orissa Airport?

        Don’t expect Physics to apply to everything.

        Thanks!

      • yapa

        Dear SD/wijayapala;

        Science is a study of Physical world, and cannot and does not hope to grasp anything exist beyond “Phenomenal World”. It’s scope is confines only to Physical Phenomena.

        Further, any branch of Science or it’s body of knowledge, does not claim to represent absolute truths in that particular area of knowledge. That is why any subject changes its view on “things” from time to time. That is why the body of knowledge of Classical Physics was replaced in 20th century by Modern Physics.

        This clearly deduce following conclusions.

        1. Non Physical Phenomena cannot be explained or refuted in terms of Science or using its body of knowledge, if the such phenomena have no influence in phenomenal world.

        2. Even a body of knowledge developed in a branch of Science cannot be used as “The” bottom line to explain even the phenomena of the physical world. It cannot certainly say this is wrong and that is right. It can express anything only within some degree of probability. Science is not a way to express certainties or absolutes, so exceptions in Science is always possibility. Therefore men of Science are very humble of their views (vulnerable body of knowledge) and are not over confident or assertive of many things.

        However, I am in no control of the attitudes of the others’ of this and many are not very shy to express their opinions as the men of Science.

        Further, I would like to touch upon a very serious fallacious argument upon which many people of the forum/and also elsewhere are used to draw their conclusion.

        To explain this we will take wijayapala’s statement, “As a Buddhist I have to say that this story is a myth. The Buddha never came to Sri Lanka so Nagadipa is not the oldest religious event in the north.”

        Here he explicitly says that “Buddha never came to Sri Lanka”.

        How can he be so certain about his statement?

        OK!, say it is somewhat reasonable to say, as there are no reports of the availability of aeroplanes at the time, the Buddha could not come to Sri Lanka as as described in the case of his coming to Nagadeepa from the sky. However, it disputes only the “sky journey of him”, and does not dispute of his journey in some other mode. (There were various methods available to come from India at that time, and I don’t think all those who tried to come were sent back.)So Buddha’s possibility of coming here cannot be totally eliminated.

        If what wijayapala says is logically extended it says that when there is no air travel facilities, one cannot travel to a country separated from the sea.

        So, really what wijayapala could reasonably say to some extent is Buddha did not come to Sri Lanka “through air”, (but not Buddha never came to Sri Lanka, which is a logical fallacy.)

        When a statement has two parts and when the credibility of one part is disputed, it does not imply that the other part too is disproved.

        This logical fallacy is used in abundance even by many scholars without the knowledge about the fallacy and also many parties also use it purposely to get undue advantages.

        A good example is, citing the less credible story mentioned in Mahawansa to have children by sexual intercourse with an animal by a princess, some critics say that everything mentioned in Mahawansa is myth.

        May be that particular part of Mahawansa is less credible, however, many material/non material evidence are available to prove many things mentioned in the chronicle.

        I think while expressing opinions uninterruptedly, I think it is also good if contributors try to pay some attention to “clean up” their thinking processes.

        I think this is utmost important. Raw materials does not give the expected “quality product” when the machine is faulty.

        Thanks!

      • SD

        Dear Yapa,

        RE: “Further, any branch of Science or it’s body of knowledge, does not claim to represent absolute truths in that particular area of knowledge. That is why any subject changes its view on “things” from time to time”

        Spot on! I’m a 100% in agreement with you. Any subject apart from Buddhism though, which deal with naked truths.

        Over time, you have gradually convinced me that I’m entirely mistaken about this topic. As you have correctly deduced, science cannot comment on the imaginary, and therefore, cannot provide an opinion on an advanced subject like the Buddha’s arrival to Sri Lanka.

        Therefore, I too think that Wijayapala is wrong about this. As you correctly point out, the only thing he has succeeded in doing is proving that the Buddha did not come to SL by air. His mind is closed to other possibilities, and he is unashamed in his certainty.

        We must analyze other possibilities to prove our theory that the Buddha could indeed have used other methods to come to Sri Lanka – and thereby conclude that, if he could have come here, he definitely would have come here. Why? Because, Buddha in his omniscience knew that Sri Lanka would be the last refuge of pure Theravada Buddhism, whereas all other places would only have diluted, distorted and otherwise degenerate versions which are contemptible at best. He knew that the Sinhalese people alone would be sacred guardians of the purest form of the Dhamma, and be willing to lay down their lives for it.

        Therefore, we must evaluate other methods of travel to Sri Lanka.

        I can prove that the Buddha did not come to SL by sea. This is because of salt water crocodiles. Some may argue that salt water crocodiles do not live in the sea. But as you have pointed out, the only thing they can prove is that *a particular variety of salt water crocodile does not live in the sea*. That does not prove, that mutant salt water crocodiles could not have lived in the sea. Therefore, my theory stands that the Buddha could not have come to Sri Lanka via the seas.

        The only remaining possibilities are
        1. Walking
        2. Astral projection.

        Walking might have been possible. At a rate of 10km a day, where the Buddha would have stopped to enlighten others on the way, meditate, have food etc. and having to go through thick jungle and sparsely populated areas (the Buddha never tried to generate food by magic like Jesus, although he could have quite easily), it would have taken him roughly 200 days to arrive in Sri Lanka. The return journey would have taken another 200 days. Let’s round that down to one year.

        Now, all we need to do to prove that the Buddha came to Sri Lanka, is to find mysterious, 1 year gaps in the Tripitaka. We have to find 3 of them to prove that the Buddha came here 3 times. Of course, if we only find two, we can conclude that 1 occasion might have been myth, but that’s not a big deal, he still came here twice.

        The other major possibility is astral projection. I know this is your favoured position. As I have shown earlier, I think this too is quite plausible.

        All in all, I think I’ve proven that the Buddha came to Sri Lanka at least twice.

        We have to keep in mind that, if he hadn’t come to Sri Lanka, we run the risk of people ignoring his teachings. After all, if the Buddha couldn’t even see that the Sinhalese would eventually rise to become the sacred guardians of Buddhism, he wouldn’t have had much omniscience would he? His teachings would become worthless.

        It would also undermine any theory that being born a Buddhist is an act of great good Karma, which you proved to be true in an earlier thread, because only Sinhalese (Buddhists) have the privilege of being born with immediate exposure to the Dhamma. Whereas being born a Tamil, or heaven forbid, a half-burgher, half-Tamil with possibly Christian exposure like Blacker, would mean that they have less access to the dhamma, and therefore, have poorer karma.

        We must preserve the dhamma! There’s no point in being born in Sri Lanka without it – all meaning and purpose would be lost – and we’d be as degenerate as any other lousy westerner and their box-wallah agents in the NGOs, or worse, a liberal-elitist-atheist-western-decadent-agent who’d sell his own mother for a couple of American dollars, like I used to be! May the triple gems protect us from such misfortune.

        cheers!

        p.s.
        No offense David, but I trust you see the grave misfortune in your origins.

      • SD

        [Edited out.]

        [Dear Yapa, Wijayapala and SD, please address the topic of the article in your discussions. Thank you. GV.]

      • yapa

        Dear SD;

        You have not countered any of my arguments rather than going a picnic around the bush. I think that must have been very convenient for you, as you all used to worship “Bush”! Ha! Ha!!

        Really in my case I don’t know whether the Buddha came to Sri Lanka or not. However, many people believe so. A belief can be true or not. However, one belief just cannot refute another belief.

        Wijayapal’s idea “Buddha has never come to Sri Lanka”, just cannot refute the belief “Buddha came to Sri lanka, if wijayapala’s idea is just another belief only, especially when the original belief is a belief of many people. That is why I indicated its vulnerability, but you wanted to certify it as true and I reluctantly had to challenge to prove that belief (wijayapala’s) is a true belief.

        Now you and wijayapala are in the stage of proving that wijayapala’s statement is true.

        Simple, don’t have to go picnics.

        (After finishing this argument I will also join you for a picnic. Leisurely we can just talk about some dhamma after having some booze.)

        Thanks!

      • SD

        But Yapa, why should I try to prove Wijayapala’s statement is true when I agree with you that his statement is most likely – false? He has no basis whatsoever to make such a claim – as you said, absence of evidence is not evidence of absence – which is why I also believe that prior to the arrival of Vijaya, Sri Lanka was inhabited by Tamils – and that the Sinhalese are invaders – there is no evidence to the contrary – and as you rightly point out – we cannot make a decision either way because all beliefs must be equally respected.

        So since we don’t disagree on this matter, and Wijayapala’s views have been soundly trounced, I would much rather that you critiqued my analysis of the methods that might have been used to enable travel to Sri Lanka instead. Which method do you believe is more likely?

      • yapa

        Dear SD;

        It seems that I have no any duty other than correcting your follies. You keep jumping to another wrong notion just after leaving one. Here is the latest puddle you fell into trying to cling into another wrong notion.

        “– which is why I also believe that prior to the arrival of Vijaya, Sri Lanka was inhabited by Tamils – and that the Sinhalese are invaders – there is no evidence to the contrary –”

        I cannot keep on correcting you forever, free of charge since I also need earn something for my living. When a service is rendered free of charge, it has no value too.

        http://dbsjeyaraj.com/dbsj/archives/1956

        Anyway, please go through my contributions to forum of the given link for the answer of your query above. I knew that you would raise that naive question and got ready before hand, and “stored” it for your future benefit.

        If you read the last part of the discussion you will realize that many have no counter arguments for mine. It should be mentioned that wijayapala too contributed to this forum, you can read his posts too.

        However, you put wijayapala in trouble and washed your hand. I should remind wijayapala about the story of “Two Friends and the Bear”.

        Thanks, dear SD!

      • yapa

        Dear SD;

        “So since we don’t disagree on this matter, and Wijayapala’s views have been soundly trounced, I would much rather that you critiqued my analysis of the methods that might have been used to enable travel to Sri Lanka instead. Which method do you believe is more likely?”

        Why should I?

        This has been my stance, please re-read, ( My answer, I have no idea)

        “Really in my case I don’t know whether the Buddha came to Sri Lanka or not. However, many people believe so. A belief can be true or not. However, one belief just cannot refute another belief.” -(March 27, 2011 • 12:50 pm)

        You thought I would commit my self?????

        I never committed my self, “for” or “against”.

        However, if you insist I would touch upon your “methodology” if you like to call it so, as an academic exercise.

        Thanks!

      • yapa

        Dear SD;

        “Spot on! I’m a 100% in agreement with you. Any subject apart from Buddhism though, which deal with naked truths.”

        Can you remember I challenged you all to disprove any of the dhamma mentioned in Buddhism, and only Heshan and longus undertook. Heshan tried to show that “Avyakathas were wrong and ultimately he had to keep away from the forum until it was forgotten.

        You, BalangodaMan, dingiri and so called (fake)professor by the name of Harischandar ( you upheld very much to teach me a lesson) tried to go to heaven clinging onto the tail of longus.
        Can you remember what happened?

        You should have disproved a single doctrine, rather than just mocking off hand here and now (and without shame).

        Thanks! Dear SD,(Lesson-1, note:- Charges before one month.)

      • SD

        Aah! Very interesting Yapa!

        In that link you sent me, you yourself say: “This learned writer might not know that the absence of evidence is merely evidence of absence. In here absence of proof has been taken as positive proof of absence”

        But now you say the complete opposite!

        How does one explain this schizophrenia?

      • yapa

        Dear SD;

        “But now you say the complete opposite!

        How does one explain this schizophrenia?”

        I have not typed “not” in the first sentence in haste or due to my carelessness or unsoundness of my English. However, I definitely meant the correct one.

        Thanks!

      • yapa

        Dear SD;

        By the way how do you like my posts in the DBSJ’s forum?

        Thanks!

      • SD

        Dear Yapa,

        Ok. I think we can agree to leave it as being “undecidable”.

      • yapa

        Dear SD;

        On the basis of “Balance of Probability” it is “decidable”. There is no other alternative.

        This issue should be settled if we are to go for a reconciliation. One of the main causes of the Sri Lankan dipute is this, the issue of History.

        To Make “the undecidable”, “a decidable” is a must for settling the problem and for peace and harmony of this country.

        Thanks!

    • TT

      Wijayapala,

      1. No problem! That is why these sites should be administered by Buddhists today!! (Too bad almost all Buddhists in SL are Sinhalese) The story ALSO comes in Sinhala history, independant of that TAMIL NADU historical account you mentioned.

      2. As a non-Buddhist I say, Buddha visited SL hence Nagadeepa is the OLDEST religious site in the north!

      If there is such conflicting views about a place of religious importance to a group of people (their religion, how religious they are, etc. are immaterial) what should be done?

      Respect the views of those people for whom the site is important!

      That is the solution.

      So your/my views don’t determine what should happen or not happen in the north as regards Buddhist places of worship. It is the conduct of this group of people who believe is what matters. And they believe so.

      e.g. I don’t believe in gods with a strange appearence but I respect the views of those who believe in such gods.

      I’m glad the Hunugama Buddhist Shrine in Jaffna District (don’t know the other names for this place) has been renovated. Kadurugoda Buddhist Shrine close by (don’t know the other names for this place) should also be renovated.

      • wijayapala

        The story ALSO comes in Sinhala history, independant of that TAMIL NADU historical account you mentioned.

        The fact that the same story shows up in both Sri Lanka and S. India shows that the two were integrated far more in ancient times than you may imagine, in spite of the language difference. It would not be a stretch to say that people back then were more bilingual (and thus less ignorant) than the people today.

        2. As a non-Buddhist I say, Buddha visited SL hence Nagadeepa is the OLDEST religious site in the north!

        If you are a non-Buddhist, then why are you so concerned about Buddhist sites or whether or not Buddha came to Sri Lanka?

      • TT

        Wijayapala,

        1. Not necessarily! Good if they had mutually respectable relations. We should have good mutually respectable relations with Tamil Nadu today as well. Unfortunately extreme racism in Tamil Nadu politics and the conduct of some TN politicians make it difficult.

        Ramayana and Mahabharata (north Indian) stories also appear in Sinhala historical accounts!!!

        Anyway my point stays. The Tamil historical book you mentioned is a TAMIL NADU book, certainly NOT a Tamil book of SL!!!!!

        2. My religion, race, caste, etc., etc. do NOT matter. I’m no Henry Steel Olcott or Helena Blavatsky or EW Leadbitter or Frank Lee Woodward or whatever [ 😉 ] but I want these Buddhist sites protected. So do a very large number of Sinhala Buddhists. So large in number that their pilgrimage to Nagadweepa annoyed some racist elements!! 😉

        Similarly I will defend Tamil, Muslim, Veddha, Jewish, etc. historical sites too. My race/ethnicity/caste/religion do NOT matter at all.

    • TT

      Focusing further on the topic of discussion, allow me to restate a simple fact: Jafna has a choice – go back to multiethnicity or become a military garrison. Of course there are other nasty choices including war, fall under LTTE control, fall under IPKF control, etc.

      Too bad some people want to make/keep Jaffna a military garrison and not a multi ethnic melting pot which will end up with the SL culture!
      🙁

      Gun culture or SL culture. That is the choice facing Jaffna in other words.

      Tamil culture?

      It is a (small) part of the SL culture.
      It is the culture of Tamil Nadu.

      A respectable culture no doubt.

    • TT

      For those who think the development strategy of the government is a panacea….

      Government is following this development strategy to win votes (naturally) in the north and the east. That is a fair demand.

      They won many PSs, etc, the PC in the east by showing development.

      But they will NOT win the north because the people in the north since 1947 (even before Independence) vote for race centred politics as their friends/relatives/neighbours in Tamil Nadu no matter what.

      So the government is going to get heart broken very soon. Remember resources are limited. They must be used cleverly to win votes, eventually. They can be chanelled for more votes elsewhere. Soon the government will realise the FUTILITY of developing the north WITHOUT creating peace by way of multiethnic colonization in the north.

      Can’t wait to see when MR/BR/GR learn this bitter lesson! 🙂

      (Hopefully they will not take their frustrattion on the people like forcing them to sing the national anthem in a language they don’t understand.)

      If they don’t do it, they will either waste money and get no votes/seats which is even better – that may pave way for another “SW(O)RD B” to make use of the situation to win votes/seats – or they will not spend so much on areas that don’t return votes/seats and instead invest in areas that are grateful for development!

      e.g. Sirima B built a university in Jaffna and lost even the few seats she had before! L 🙂 L!

      e.g. Ranil signed the CFA and lost the few seats he had in the north! L 🙂 L!

      (Of course there are lengthy excuses but the end result is input-100, output-zero)

      After all the good work by UNP/SLFP, people in the north vote for Tamil race centric parties that have not done even 0.1% of development work!!! This is the reality.

      I’m not saying not to do development. NO WAY! Govt MUST do development in the north BUT it must go hand in hand with creating a multi ethnic community in the north. Otherwise it is waste and wasted.

      • wijayapala

        Soon the government will realise the FUTILITY of developing the north WITHOUT creating peace by way of multiethnic colonization in the north.

        How will colonisation convince Tamils to vote for SLFP?

      • TT

        It doesn’t. Most Tamils in the north will NEVER EVER vote for multiethnic parties like UNP/SLFP as they vote for Tamil/Dravidian “T” or “D” race centric parties at general elections. This CANNOT be changed. Please understand this UNIVERSAL FACT. NO WAY. (No disrespect. They have the right to vote for their choice.)

        It will create a new votebase that will vote for multiethnic UNP and SLFP!!

        Same end result!!

      • But they have voted several times for Sinhalese-led coalitions, TT. The solution isn’t change to the demographic but a change to the policy of the parties. If no one will by your product, you must improve your product.

    • Krish

      Dear Wijayapala,

      As always, your posts are refreshing to read. I am impressed with your knowledge on Tamil Buddhism. Your point about lack of knowledge about the other side (Tamils vis-a-vis Sinhalese folks) is very very valid, especially if one were to read the posts of TT and Yapa.

      Not sure if TT and Yapa are really Buddhists. If so, they should read a bit about Tamil Buddhism and it’s history. Kandy-based Buddhist Publication Society has some good books online, one of which is about Buddhism in South India. Here is the link for TT and Yapa!

      http://www.bps.lk/olib/wh/wh124-u.html

      best wishes
      Krish

      • yapa

        Dear Krish;

        Thanks, for the link. I will go through it. But I don’t think my lack of knowledge of Tamils (if wijayapala and you think so and both of you know many more things other than I know about Tamils)could reasonably be generalized as “Ignorance of Sinhalese”, as in the case of my “rude remarks” to wijayapala. It is a hastened conclusion drawn at “ignorance” I should say.

        Really Krish, I very well know that Buddhism was popular in Tamil Nadu at some period of the past and “Tamil Buddhists” referred are them, not the Tamils who came to Sri Lanka. Except a very rare incidents there is no record of Tamil Buddhists of Sri Lanka, especially lay Tamil Buddhists.

        wijayapala and you may know more about Tamil Buddhists than I, but I am a bit confident to say that I have not got my little knowledge confused.

        Thanks!

      • yapa

        Dear Krish/wijayapala;

        Do you mean to say Buddhist monuments/ruins found in North & East of Sri Lanka were the works of Tamil Buddhist of Tamil Nadu? Otherwise I don’t understand the relevance of the knowledge of Tamil Buddhists to the discussion at present.

        Is it what you consider as our ignorance is our lack of knowledge of Tamils/ Tamil Buddhists lived in Tamil Nadu? Why should we gather irrelevant/unnecessary knowledge? I am confident over 99.9% Tamils lived/living in Sri Lanka were/are Hindus or Christians. There was never a significant Tamil Buddhist community lived in Sri Lanka and Buddhist monuments in N & E are none other than of Sinhalese’. Are there any opposite evidence? I don’t understand why anybody wants to create implausible theories taking imaginary evidence from thin air.

        Thanks!

      • TT

        Krish,

        I have NOTHING against Tamils, Buddhists, Sinhalese or Tamil Buddhists!!!

        It is a fact that Tamil Nadu, etc. had Buddhism widespread in the past than now.

        I only want Buddhist sites in the north protected and RESTORED to their historical glory. Tamil or Sinhala does not matter.

        If you don’t dispute this, there is no dispute here.

      • wijayapala

        Krish,

        Thanks for the link. I did not see that article before and I am pleased that there has been a monk who has conducted research into Tamil Buddhism. I might have to revise my statements about Sinhala ignorance.

        Dhammaratana Mahathera’s findings are pretty good although a little dated (being published in 1968). I’m not sure how accurate it would be to claim that Buddhism and Jainism had become dominant in S. India at a certain point, because their literature happened to be dominant (although that is the mainstream view, indeed what I was taught). Also it is unlikely that people adopted Buddhism out of opposition to the caste system. Buddhism tended to become entrenched in areas where the ruler decided to patronise it; that is what happened in Sri Lanka, and it most likely occurred with various Tamil kings throughout history. Strangely enough, Buddhism at a certain point appeared to be popular with the Cholas who more often than not tended to be enemies of the Sinhala kings (not so strange though, when you consider the hostility between Buddhist Thailand and Burma).

  • wijayapala

    Dear yapa,

    How do you justify Mahinda Thero’s contribution to Sri Lanka if you doubt his air born journey to Sri Lanka, when his Lear Jet did not take of from Orissa Airport?

    Because we have inscriptions that mention Mahinda Thero and correctly date him to the time of King Uttiya. Also in India they discovered the tomb of his teacher Moggaliputta-Tissa and a number of other missionary monks who were mentioned in the Mahavamsa.

    Unlike the time of the Buddha, when Buddhism was limited to the region of the Magadha kingdom, Buddhism under Emperor Asoka spread to all parts of India. Additionally, the Emperor certainly had the resources to sponsor missionary activity beyond India’s shores, which previous kings may not have had.

    On the other hand, Tripitika makes no mention of Buddha leaving the Magadha region. Do you feel that Tripitika is flawed and is missing a lot of information?

    • yapa

      Dear wijayapala;

      Ok! Now you have provided the reasons for your accepting Arhath Mahinda Thero’s journey to Sri Lanka.

      Same way please disprove the journeys of the Buddha to Sri Lanka as well, as per your claim.

      Thanks!

      • wijayapala

        Ok!

        Buddha left no trace that he had been there or anywhere else outside Magadha.

        Tripitaka does not mention that he went to Sri Lanka or anywhere else.

      • yapa

        Thanks! dear wijapala for your prompt response. I was in the wrong view that you would not respond just like SD, when his mighty challenges are countered back.

        Any way, dear wijayapala, I have to attack back at with an old weapon that you also have approved and still I believe effective as a multi – barrel gun.

        Dear wijayapala,Do you mean to say, Absence of Evidence is Evidence of Absence?

        Do you mean to say “Buddha left no trace that he had been there or anywhere else outside Magadha and Tripitaka does not mention that he went to Sri Lanka or anywhere else” are evidence of absence?

        Further, how come you justify Arahath Mahinda Thero’s air born journey? Do you have evidence? In this case why don’t you consider Absence of Evidence is Evidence of Absence?

        I think you would promptly answer these queries too promptly as above.

        Thank wijayapala, no hard feelings, this is just an academic exercise.

        Thanks!

      • TT

        Evidence also includes beliefs of a large number of people AND documentary evidence.

        e.g. Moses, Jeremiya, Abraham, Joseph, Jacob, Issac, etc.

        It is unlikely Tripitaka would have recorded each and every itenery especially when nothing NEW was preached during the visit to SL.

        There had been constant travel between Magadha area (including surrounds) and SL in this time.

        e.g. Sinhalese have a sizable Bengali connection

        e.g. Wijaya came from somewhere near Magadha/Bengal region

        e.g. Chulodara and Makodara were Nagas. Nagas come from an area close to Maghadha/Bengal. So it is very likely that their historical tussle was well known in other Naga communities and close by regions.

        e.g. Emperor Ashoka is from Maghdha too. His son, etc and a large group arrived in SL.

        So there have been FREQUENT travel between Maghdha and sorrounding regions and SL during this time.

        These prove that Buddha may well have travelled to SL even using normal transport modes. (no disrespect)

        Like to hear what Yapa, Wijayapala, DB say to these historical relevant facts.

      • yapa

        Dear wijayapala/TT;

        Really I don’t like to drag this debate anymore and that is why I didn’t reply the the TT’s post above.

        However, I agree with TT’s statement that evidence include beliefs of a large number of people AND documentary evidence. further, even folk lore, folk songs, rituals etc. too some times could be considered as evidence. Further, logic can be used to improve/disprove them to very credible standards.

        However, I am not sure about wijayapala’s claim that Buddha did not go outside Magadha. However, Buddha went to Kimbulwathpura, to his birth place, I am not sure whether, it is also situated within the boundary of Magada. Further, It is said that “AbhiDhamma Pitaka” was preached in Thusitha Heaven, to “Matru Divyaputhra”, rebirth of queen Mahamaya.This an evidence that the Buddha has gone out of Magadha.

        Further, wijayapala asks for evidence for “Bengali – Sri lanka” connections. Ramayanaya is about an “Aryan” (Rama) invasion of Sri Lanka. It is believed that “Yakka king Ravana” lived about 1800 BC ago. However, I am not sure whether, Prince Rama is fro Bengal.

        Howevr, again I should say even if the facts give in his last statement are true, it is a fallacious statement, and the conclusion is not valid.

        ( I think the whole problem arose due to incorrect application of “physical knowledge to analyze non physical concepts, which is an impossibility, by definition)

        Thanks!

  • wijayapala

    TT,

    It is unlikely Tripitaka would have recorded each and every itenery especially when nothing NEW was preached during the visit to SL.

    But the Tripitaka contains plenty of sermons where the Buddha repeats the same message, yet none of them take place even in other parts of India than Magadha.

    e.g. Sinhalese have a sizable Bengali connection
    e.g. Chulodara and Makodara were Nagas. Nagas come from an area close to Maghadha/Bengal.

    What is your evidence?

    e.g. Wijaya came from somewhere near Magadha/Bengal region

    What is your evidence that Vijaya was a real person?

    e.g. Emperor Ashoka is from Maghdha too. His son, etc and a large group arrived in SL.

    By that time, Emperor Asoka ruled most of India and was in the position to sponsor Buddhist missions to other countries. It is only from the time of Asoka that we find evidence of Buddhism in lands outside of Magadha.

    Tripitaka describing only Magadha + no archeological evidence of Buddhism outside Magadha prior to Asoka = Buddha did not travel outside of Magadha.

  • SD

    Dear Yapa,

    You provided the following link: http://dbsjeyaraj.com/dbsj/archives/1956

    and said: “Anyway, please go through my contributions to forum of the given link for the answer of your query above.”

    In that post, you repeated what you said was a famous saying: “” Uthurin Haedi Demalu, Dakunin Golu Muhuda…………………..” (Tamils in the north and dumb ocean in the south, how can I stretch my limbs?)” in order to prove that Dutugemunu could not have been a Tamil at all.

    However, you have not provided a source for this quote. Could you please elaborate and explain where and when you first heard it and where it’s written down?

    cheers!

    • yapa

      Dear SD;

      It is mentioned in the chronicle Mhawansa. Please read the page 95,Mahawansa, published by Buddhist Culral Centre, Nedimala, Dehiwala. Even in onlline edition of Mahawansa you may find it.

      Thanks!

      • SD

        Thank you Yapa. I located the somewhat sanitized version in the English version online. I have heard the Sinhalese version before, but did not know its origin.

        The translation you’ve made, however, is incorrect. Hadi Demalu means “Filthy Tamils”. Is this, by modern standards, a racist sentiment?

        I understand that it is an ancient text, and that the historical narration of a particular king’s sentiments does not imply that the whole of the Mahavamsa propagates the same ideas, but do you feel that the accusation by some, that the Mahavamsa is being misappropriated to propagate racism, is correct?

        Finally, do you believe that the Tamils in SL today are nevertheless, invaders, as voiced by Dutugemunu?

    • yapa

      Dear SD;

      I did not translate “hadi” pronoun as I was not sure of its meaning. Are you sure it means “filthy”? I think “Hadi” may mean “Chanda”, that is cruel, and hence “Hadi Demalu” means “cruel Tamils”. Considering the destruction they were doing during that period in Anuradhapura,in the capital city of Sinhalese nation , this particular meaning seems to fit Dutugamunu’s pronouncement.

      With regard to the problem of misappropriation of Mahawansa to propagate racism is a very vague allegation as I have witnessed. Most of the time this is a “whole sale” allegation, without specifically showing where and how Mahawansa is used for that wrong purpose. On the other hand I doubt what they mean by the term “Racism”. As I have understood they are using this term too with a very vague meaning. I don’t know what they refer as racism in the particular context is really racism. As I have understood, they call Mahawansa itself as a racist chronicle, because it does not advocate for their (false)claim that they were the original inhabitants of this country or their civilization was prevailing in this country as a parallel civilization to the Sinhalese civilization, originated from a common ancestry, which is an absolute lie in any dimension. They fabricated this theory to justify to carve out an exclusive Tamil Homeland, Eelam. Really the main obstacle for their claim is the consistent historical record of this country, that is Mahawansa. Just because facts given in the Mahawansa do not support their claim, I don’t think nobody can say that Mahawansa or the people quote facts from Mahawansa to refute their foul claims as propagating racism or racists. In that case the term “racism” must have a different meaning than its meaning given in other places. I think they are using the “bad word” racism to discredit Sinhalese for some other work they are doing. True, it is racism if Mahawansa or the people who quote it trying to undermine genuine Tamil interests. But by trying to establish a false history and false civilization similar to Sinhalese in this country is a total lie and refuting it using Mahawansa, I don’t think racism. Telling truth cannot be considered as racism, though it does nor favour all equally. It is a duty of all the just people to prevent such unjustifiable false claims. Preventing lies I don’t think is racism. However, My analysis does not cover all the individuals in this country. There may be scattered racists, but the general allegation I think is not correct.

      Really, I don’t consider present generation of Tamils as invaders.Whatever are their origins we have no way to send them back to their original places and hence we have to accept them as citizen of this country and should be given the equal rights in principle. Noway they can have more rights than Sinhalese as a community, as a community I think Sinhalse are entitled to special privileges as the civilization builders of this country and in terms of temporal dimension. Further, I believe that they are entitled a special place in this country as the guardians of a great philosophy, which is incomparable in any standards even of the modern day.

      However, I must say that most of the Tamils living in Sri Lanka have no a history over 500 years and others over 700 years. Almost all of their ancestors were unauthorized settlers of this country, however, present generation do not have to pay for the sins of the past. However, my understanding is present generation too seems not prepared to live as equal citizens of this country and asking for special privileges, unjustifiable claims like 1/3rd of the land and 2/3rd of the sea belt for just 12% of the population. If these unjustifiable, claims are shed, there will not be any racist to misappropriate Mahawansa to propagate so called racism. When the root cause vanishes, the all the effects also will vanish.

      Thanks!

      • yapa

        correction…..

        “pronoun” in the first sentence should be corrected as “adjective”.

        Thanks!

      • yapa
      • BalangodaMan

        Mr Yapa,
        There you go again!

        What is meant by ‘racism’ is not much in doubt in modern society. You demonstrate racism well. And you have used the Mahawamsa to justify your viewpoint (in addition to religious dogma, see below). Therefore you have already proved SD’s assetion that racists tend to use the Mahawamsa to propagate their divisive message.

        I recall you did refer to Tamils as ‘invaders’ in a previous discussion thread, then went on to justify that at some length. You went further to apply a dismissal of our fellow countrymen on religious grounds by suggesting they are somewhat inferior by birth due to past sins (as written in the scriptures and as per your interpretation).

        Mr Yapa, the reason there is ‘no way of sending them back’ is this. In order to do so you would have to send back a proportion of yourself, of me, of SD, and all the people who presently inhabit SL. Such is the distribution of Tamil genes in SL in the present day. And to finish the job you would have to send many parts (of each and every one of us) to far off lands such as Portugal, Holland and Britain too (I doubt they’ll be too happy to receive them!). So which part of your body would you like to start sending back first?

        As for guarding a great philosophy, do we still have one left to guard? What you mean, I think, is a superficial concept that gives legitimacy to a widespread dogmatic/ritualistic/superstitious practise that is wholly in contradiction to that great philosophy you refer to. Your own rantings over the past year is evidence of the present character of the thing you wish to guard. I do not recognise it as a philosophy – it is a war cry.

        As for ‘authorised settlers of this country’, in ancient times who decided who could settle in this country? Were there borders? Where there passports and visas? Read your history, you will find (here’s a typical example) that over centuries large numbers of mercenaries were imported by various local in-fighting factions to fight their battles for them, yes from South India. They remained, they were given land for their services. They married, settled, assimilated. If they settled in a Sinhalese speaking part they came to regard themselves as Sinhalese. That’s a typical example of how people came here and became 20 million people today. For the umpteenth time (!), on whose permission did Vijaya and his retinue enter SL? According to your interpretation of our origins we are ALL unauthorised settlers in this country and should have no rights.

        Mr Yapa, here is the simple version of what you are struggling to comprehend. Read carefully: A certain interpretation of the Mahawamsa brands one ethnic group of our population as ‘the chosen people’. Adopting that idea denigrades those that are not identified as belonging to that ethnic group. Such a thing is commonly called racism.

      • yapa

        Dear SD;

        Please see how much Tamils are brain washed. The obvious lie, “Dutugamunu was not a Sinhalese” could be easily sold to Tamils very easily and they were even violent against alternative ideas, after accepting this “unbelievable” idea, advantageous to them.

        Really, there is no need of any evidence to understand the above claim was wrong (to an unprejudiced mind). However, see how much the others have to struggle against their arguments and counter arguments at least to show that they have no ground for this false claim.

        If one just used his brain simply about the issue anybody cannot come to any conclusion other than Dutugamunu was a Sinhala. If Dutugamunu was not a Sinhalese, his parents, his relatives, his ten commanders – “Dasa Maha Yodyas”, the whole army fought against Tamil invaders, even the Maha Sanga (Buddhist monks)who accompanied Dutugamunu in the war cannot be Sinhalese.

        See how shamelessly the “Educated greedy Tamils” deceive the ordinary Tamils and how vulnerable and easily the ordinary Tamils gobble wrong theories.

        This has been the history of Tamils in this country and the history of unfortunate problems of the nation. Fabricated advantageous theories, to gain undue advantages.

        No respectable reconciliation is possible without coming back to the reality. They should shed false claims.

        Thanks!

      • wijayapala

        Dear yapa,

        However, I must say that most of the Tamils living in Sri Lanka have no a history over 500 years and others over 700 years.

        My in-law’s family has documents tracing their history in Jaffna 600-700 years (I think they had been related to the former royal family).

        Do you know if your family’s history traces over 500 years back in SL?

        Almost all of their ancestors were unauthorized settlers of this country,

        I was not aware that visas or immigration service existed 500 years ago.

      • SD

        Dear Yapa,

        I think you are right about “Hadi”. The dictionary definition is closer to “chanda” – rough, unruly, ruffianly. I used Michael Roberts’ translation: unruly-cum-filthy. Either way of course, it is a pejorative term.

        However, I don’t understand your position. Earlier, you used Dutugemunu’s statement to prove that Dutugemunu could not have been a Tamil, since he clearly denigrated Tamils. However, now you say that Tamils do not have a history in Sri Lanka over 700 years. Dutugemunu lived 2000 years ago. How could Dutugemunu have denigrated Tamils 2000 years ago, when you said earlier that they arrived only 700 years ago?

        RE: “But by trying to establish a false history and false civilization similar to Sinhalese in this country is a total lie and refuting it using Mahawansa, I don’t think racism.”

        Certainly, I would agree that telling the truth cannot be racism! But perhaps when some people lie and attempt to discriminate against Tamils by saying that they do not have a valid history in Sri Lanka, the Tamils too resort to similar lies and fabrications?

        Finally you say: “Noway they can have more rights than Sinhalese as a community, as a community I think Sinhalse are entitled to special privileges as the civilization builders of this country and in terms of temporal dimension. “

        What special privileges are Sinhalese entitled to?

        RE: “Further, I believe that they are entitled a special place in this country as the guardians of a great philosophy, which is incomparable in any standards even of the modern day.”

        Aah yes. An onerous duty indeed!

      • yapa

        Mr. BalangodaMan;

        I will respond to rest of your post soon.

        Show me where I have said Tamils are invaders. Please back up your allegation. I have never said so.

        (Sorry to say that I am inclined to think that this is a problem of your perception.)

        (But I have not changed my correct stance that some Tamils invaded this country in the past.)

        Thanks!

      • yapa

        Mr. BalangodaMan;

        “You went further to apply a dismissal of our fellow countrymen on religious grounds by suggesting they are somewhat inferior by birth due to past sins”

        Show me where I have said so. Don’t try to get undue advantages leveling false allegations at me.

        I really know the responsibility and gravity of what I say and I am always prepared to back my them. You “know no”, I have never ever run away in fear of counter arguments. There won’t be any difference this time too.

        Until I use Buddhist Mantra, “Yatavadi Thathakari”, I really know I don’t have to run away. I cannot give a guarantee about others. Ok!, We will see who’s claims are true and who’s are not.

        Thanks!

      • yapa

        Dear SD;

        “However, I don’t understand your position. Earlier, you used Dutugemunu’s statement to prove that Dutugemunu could not have been a Tamil, since he clearly denigrated Tamils. However, now you say that Tamils do not have a history in Sri Lanka over 700 years. Dutugemunu lived 2000 years ago. How could Dutugemunu have denigrated Tamils 2000 years ago, when you said earlier that they arrived only 700 years ago?”

        To help to arrive at an answer to your question above, tell me how many years of history, Britishers, Dutch and Portuguese has in this country? I really cannot remember the years of first presence of Brits and Dutch in this country, however, Portuguese’ first presence was in 1505 AD.

        I will answer your comments in full soon.

        Thanks!

      • yapa

        Mr. Balangoda;

        “Mr Yapa, here is the simple version of what you are struggling to comprehend. Read carefully: A certain interpretation of the Mahawamsa brands one ethnic group of our population as ‘the chosen people’. Adopting that idea denigrades those that are not identified as belonging to that ethnic group. Such a thing is commonly called racism.”

        You are over confident and too assertive, Mr. BalangodaMan! How come anybody can teach somebody else the simple version of what is “that somebody else” is going to comprehend? Only omniscient person can do it better that “somebody else”. You are trying to teach your grand mother how to suck eggs, Mr. balangodaman. I am not engaged in an emotional game, but in a game with facts, rationality and in an intellectual game.

        Thanks!

      • yapa

        Dear SD;

        I answered your first question with another question so that you could reach at your answer. If you are not still clear I will touch upon it later, now I would try to answer the rest.

        “RE: “But by trying to establish a false history and false civilization similar to Sinhalese in this country is a total lie and refuting it using Mahawansa, I don’t think racism.”

        Certainly, I would agree that telling the truth cannot be racism! But perhaps when some people lie and attempt to discriminate against Tamils by saying that they do not have a valid history in Sri Lanka, the Tamils too resort to similar lies and fabrications?”

        If somebody gives a less figure for the history of Tamils than really they have or if says they do not have a valid history in Sri Lanka, true, it is a discrimination.However, saying they have a shorter history than Sinhalese is is the truth and not discrimination.For that they cannot resort to (not to similar)lies and fabrications. More or less really what is happening is this. They want others to accept their history is also long as Sinhalese, which is a deliberate lie.

        “Finally you say: “Noway they can have more rights than Sinhalese as a community, as a community I think Sinhalse are entitled to special privileges as the civilization builders of this country and in terms of temporal dimension. “

        What special privileges are Sinhalese entitled to?”

        What I had said above is the answer for the above question.

        “RE: “Further, I believe that they are entitled a special place in this country as the guardians of a great philosophy, which is incomparable in any standards even of the modern day.”

        Aah yes. An onerous duty indeed!”

        Do you think mocking is an answer for an argument? It is not acceptable to me. I expect a serious, respectable counter argument. Arguments should be answered with arguments, you can see BalangodaMan is using irrelevant false allegations (to the present topic), in place to undermine the arguments and weaken the opponent. Those things are not healthy in a debate aimed to arriving at reasonable conclusions.

        Thanks!

      • yapa

        Mr. BalangodaMan;

        “What is meant by ‘racism’ is not much in doubt in modern society. You demonstrate racism well.”

        Is that so? Then define it that way and show me how I am demonstrating racism as per your definition. (Anyway I would prefer if you counter my argument rather than leveling allegations at me based on your beliefs. Say how and why I am not right, rather than just saying I am not right and I am that bad.)

        “And you have used the Mahawamsa to justify your viewpoint (in addition to religious dogma, see below). Therefore you have already proved SD’s assetion that racists tend to use the Mahawamsa to propagate their divisive message.”

        Is it your notion that using Mahawansa to prove something is racism? I think you don’t have the awareness of basics of logic.Do you say SD’s assertion ” racists tend to use the Mahawamsa” implies “Mahawansa users are racists”? Learn your basics.

        “Mr Yapa, the reason there is ‘no way of sending them back’ is this. In order to do so you would have to send back a proportion of yourself, of me, of SD, and all the people who presently inhabit SL. Such is the distribution of Tamil genes in SL in the present day. And to finish the job you would have to send many parts (of each and every one of us) to far off lands such as Portugal, Holland and Britain too (I doubt they’ll be too happy to receive them!). So which part of your body would you like to start sending back first?”

        What irrelevant details are you talking? Did I say they should be sent back? Did I ask for the reasons why they should not be sent back? I said they cannot send back. You are fighting with a monster created by yourself, BalangodaMan! It is not my folly. Ma atha warada Naetha.

        “As for guarding a great philosophy, do we still have one left to guard? What you mean, I think, is a superficial concept that gives legitimacy to a widespread dogmatic/ritualistic/superstitious practise that is wholly in contradiction to that great philosophy you refer to. Your own rantings over the past year is evidence of the present character of the thing you wish to guard. I do not recognise it as a philosophy – it is a war cry.”

        I am not talking about practices, but about the Philosophy. How can I cite of the practices, when you are also a Buddhist by birth.

        “As for ‘authorised settlers of this country’, in ancient times who decided who could settle in this country? Were there borders? Where there passports and visas?”

        Please read my answer to wijayapala.

        “Read your history, you will find (here’s a typical example) that over centuries large numbers of mercenaries were imported by various local in-fighting factions to fight their battles for them, yes from South India. They remained, they were given land for their services. They married, settled, assimilated. If they settled in a Sinhalese speaking part they came to regard themselves as Sinhalese.”

        So tell me how above things dispute my idea. I have no dispute about
        it.

        “For the umpteenth time (!), on whose permission did Vijaya and his retinue enter SL? According to your interpretation of our origins we are ALL unauthorised settlers in this country and should have no rights.”

        I have never said we are ALL unauthorised settlers, you are trying to be my mouth to say what you want, as a dumb man.
        Really do you say unauthorised settlers should have rights? Then why people are deported from countries when they have no valid visas? I cannot understand disorderliness and contradictions of your wave of thinking.

        Thanks, BalangodaMan, my advice to you is mind your logic!

        Thanks, again!

      • yapa

        Mr. BalangodaMan;

        “Mr Yapa, here is the simple version of what you are struggling to comprehend. Read carefully: A certain interpretation of the Mahawamsa brands one ethnic group of our population as ‘the chosen people’. Adopting that idea denigrades those that are not identified as belonging to that ethnic group. Such a thing is commonly called racism.”

        Honestly tell me, do you know the definition of the term “definition”?

        Ok!, if my version is true do you still say it is racism? Or do you have evidence to prove my version is wrong?

        Disorderly emotional feelings and beliefs do not prove or do not disprove anything. They serve the interests of eternal weepers!

        Thanks!

      • yapa

        “I think you are right about “Hadi”. The dictionary definition is closer to “chanda” – rough, unruly, ruffianly. I used Michael Roberts’ translation: unruly-cum-filthy. Either way of course, it is a pejorative term.”

        Either way of course, it is a pejorative term???????, when the word “hadi” really represented the true nature of Tamils then lived in Anuradhapura??????????

        Do you mean to say truth is pejorative???????

        Truth may be pejorative or bitter, but it is still the truth, and we should accept and adore it.

        Thanks!

  • yapa

    Dear wijayapala;

    “My in-law’s family has documents tracing their history in Jaffna 600-700 years (I think they had been related to the former royal family).”

    Really I don’t deny such a claim, without going into details.

    “Do you know if your family’s history traces over 500 years back in SL?”

    I am not talking of my family. It might or might not old as 500 years. I am talking of communities of this country. What I say is Sinhalese as a community has a history over 2500 years or more and Tamils in Sri Lanka, as a community has no history over 700 years.

    Do you have any alternative idea?

    “I was not aware that visas or immigration service existed 500 years ago.”

    You seems to think those two modes are the only criteria to distinguish the particular differences.

    Thanks, wijayapala.

    • yapa

      Dear wijayapala;

      “I was not aware that visas or immigration service existed 500 years ago.”

      It really existed, only the form was different. Even Customs authorities were there.

      Thanks!

      • BalangodaMan

        Ok Mr Yapa, if visas and immigration services existed 2,500 years ago where did Vijaya and his people apply for entry into Lanka?

      • BalangodaMan

        Mr Yapa, you have ducked SD’s question: if Tamil presence in SL goes back 700 years only then who was Dutugemunu fighting against 2,000 years ago?

      • BalangodaMan

        Mr Yapa, if there is one thing that makes you a racist in any book it is the (unverifiable, farcical and dangerous) belief that you have that we Sinhalese Buddhists are ‘the chosen people’. Chosen to inhabit Lanka, chosen to guard a religion, chosen above all others by a higher being.

      • yapa

        Mr.BalangodaMan;

        “Mr Yapa, if there is one thing that makes you a racist in any book it is the (unverifiable, farcical and dangerous) belief that you have that we Sinhalese Buddhists are ‘the chosen people’. Chosen to inhabit Lanka, chosen to guard a religion, chosen above all others by a higher being.”

        So called my belief about ‘the chosen people’ is just a belief of yours. You imagine and create beliefs for others. But here after I would like to cancel that contract I signed with you. Hereafter you don’t need to take pains to imagine and create beliefs for me. I will do it myself.

        Anyway, before moving further, please be kind enough to prove your allegations against me. Keep aside racism, at least it would be good for your decency.

        Thanks!

  • SD

    Dear Yapa,

    RE: “I answered your first question with another question so that you could reach at your answer.”

    There is no need to answer a question with another question if you had a direct answer in the first place right? Why resort to unnecessary diversions? It does not inspire my confidence in your interest in honest discussion.

    You said Dutugemnu was not Tamil because he denigrated Tamils 2000 years ago.
    Now you say Tamils do no have a history beyond 700 years, although Wijayapala says his own in-laws have documents tracing family history that far back. If a single family has documented history for 700 years, how on earth are you claiming that the history of all Tamils is less than 700 years?

    RE: “What special privileges are Sinhalese entitled to?”

    What I had said above is the answer for the above question.

    Again, you seem to prefer obfuscation over clarity, to the point of it appearing to be deliberately deceptive. What prevents you from providing a clear, unambiguous answer to such a simple question? What privileges are the Sinhalese entitled to based on ethnicity?

    • yapa

      Dear SD;

      “There is no need to answer a question with another question if you had a direct answer in the first place right? Why resort to unnecessary diversions? It does not inspire my confidence in your interest in honest discussion.”

      I used to be a teacher. I used different different methods to make my teaching effective. I never relied on one method. I Facilitated you to understand by asking a question and I was confident that you would arrive at the answer in a better way and understand the “Whole concept” in a better way. That is why used that “teaching method”. I one method fails I use another method. I think I indicated so. I try my best to be “Yathavadi Thathakari”, did not mean to slip from the questions. I will never do, I said I take the full responsibility of what I say. That won’t be changed. I will answer the questions again.

      Thanks!

    • yapa

      Mr.BalangodaMan

      “Mr Yapa, you have ducked SD’s question: if Tamil presence in SL goes back 700 years only then who was Dutugemunu fighting against 2,000 years ago?”

      NO!, I didn’t and will I never do so.

      But you ducked my demand to prove your allegations against me.

      I think you will fulfill your moral obligation before moving further.

      Thanks!

    • yapa

      Mr.BalangodaMan;

      “Ok Mr Yapa, if visas and immigration services existed 2,500 years ago where did Vijaya and his people apply for entry into Lanka?”

      Do you really think queries as above are mature questions to to use in a serious discussions, and deserve answers?

      They will only derail the discussion.

      Please don’t get just excited when you see something you don’t like, you don’t believe or you don’t have a faith. Just see a bit patiently, there might be something that has at least of a minimal value in what you have no confidence. Don’t try to bulldoze them by excited name calling, branding, insulting, leveling allegations etc… etc…,. Just be patient a bit about others’ opinions too. You make horoscopes before the child is born no, Mr. BalangodaMan. Let me tell my story, Know your “Yes sir, but…”.

      Thanks!

    • yapa

      Dear SD;

      here is your question I answered with another question.

      However, I don’t understand your position. Earlier, you used Dutugemunu’s statement to prove that Dutugemunu could not have been a Tamil, since he clearly denigrated Tamils. However, now you say that Tamils do not have a history in Sri Lanka over 700 years. Dutugemunu lived 2000 years ago. How could Dutugemunu have denigrated Tamils 2000 years ago, when you said earlier that they arrived only 700 years ago?

      And , here is my question.

      “To help to arrive at an answer to your question above, tell me how many years of history, Britishers, Dutch and Portuguese has in this country? I really cannot remember the years of first presence of Brits and Dutch in this country, however, Portuguese’ first presence was in 1505 AD.”

      And this is how I said I would answer the question, if my “question -answer” not worked.

      “I answered your first question with another question so that you could reach at your answer. If you are not still clear I will touch upon it later, now I would try to answer the rest.”

      Then how reasonable you to say as follows.

      ““There is no need to answer a question with another question if you had a direct answer in the first place right? Why resort to unnecessary diversions? It does not inspire my confidence in your interest in honest discussion.””

      And BalangodaMan to say I ducked,

      “Mr Yapa, you have ducked SD’s question:”

      Now I will demonstrate to you how my Question is capable of solving the riddle.

      We know that Portuguese arrived in this country in 1505AD and capture4d a part of the country and ruled for several decades. Dutch also ruled a part of the country and Brits ruled the whole country for about 150 years. However, any of those people have no right for the history of this country, I think no one would disagree. This shows that just their presence in this country does not give them a right for the history of this country. On the other hand they were invaders, that is another reason why they don’t have and cannot claim the right for the history of this country.

      True that, Elara and Tamils were present 2000 years ago in this country, but you can see their (Tamils’) status then was no any difference to Portuguese, Dutch or Brits’ status.

      Now do you dare to say Tamils have a history over 2000 years in Sri Lanka?

      Further, present day Tamils are not descendants of the Tamils of the Elara era. Present day Tamils are either descendants of the soldiers of Aryachakravarthi of 17th century or the Tamils brought by the European Colonials. So the present day Tamils in Sri lanka have no history over 700 years.

      Early presence of Tamils did not continue here, they were chased back by then strong Sinhalese nation. Invader Arayachkravarthi could not be chased away as the Sinhalese kings were weal during the period. We could not oppose bringing cheap Tamil labour from India to work in tobacco plantations and tea plantations as again we were weak compared to colonials. Therefore those two generations of Tamils continued to live here, and I accept them as citizen of Sri lanka, though their ancestors were unauthorized settlers, who settled here without the consent of the native people of this country.

      So is there anything wrong my telling that Tamils of Sri Lanka do not have a history over 700 years.

      I would like to here about alternative ideas.

      (Keep in mind, I am trying my best to be “yathavadi Thathakari”)

      Thanks!

      • yapa

        Correction…

        Aryachakravarthi of 17th century or the Tamils brought by the European Colonials.

        “17th century” above should be corrected as “13th century”.

        Thanks!

      • BalangodaMan

        Mr Yapa,
        I muse. So people who moved into Lanka 500 years ago are ‘unauthorised settlers’, as are those who did so 2,000 years ago, as per your piece above. What in your view is the cut-off point before which settlers are regarded (in your books) as ‘authorised’? (my observation ‘so where did Vijaya apply for his visa’ refers, meaning whose authorisation legitimises his settling in Lanka with his entourage?)

      • BalangodaMan

        Ah Mr Yapa, I see you have already ducked that one citing ‘irrelevance’. Actually it is fundamental to the topic under discussion. If you use terms like ‘unauthorised settlement’ and ‘invaders’ you must be ready to define and differentiate. Just saying ‘because Mr Yapa says so’ is not enough. I’m sure your pupils did not write ‘because Sir said so’ to every question in their GCE exam scripts!

      • yapa

        Mr. BalangodaMan;

        No “engagement” with you until you prove you allegations against me or withdraw them with apology.

        Thanks!

    • SD

      Dear Yapa,

      Ok. Tell me whether I’ve got your argument right. Your point seems to be that once Dutugemnu defeated Elara, all remaining Tamils peacefully assimilated themselves with the Sinhalese till not a trace of their Tamilness remained.

      Despite continuous invasions and South Indian influence, the Sinhalese continued to assimilate and eliminate Tamilness from all migrant Tamils from 2000 years ago till about 700 years ago. Invading Tamils quickly learnt Sinhalese, abandoned their former customs and learnt Buddhism, thus becoming Sinhalese in the process. In other words, no Tamils existed in Sri Lanka.

      Unfortunately, this process collapsed 700 years ago when the South was having internal administrative trouble, and the last of the Tamil invaders took over the North and the Sinhalese couldn’t stop and assimilate them quickly enough. So now, the Sinhalese must deal with a newly migrant, previously non-existent, Tamil community.

      Thank you. I think I understand your argument?

      May I ask whether these are the same reasons that Nalin De Silva says that Tamils are invaders? Could someone knowledgeable about De Silva’s claims please clarify? Are you familiar with his views Yapa?

      I guess, following this line of logic, we must also realize that historians have made grave mistakes with regard to ethnic groups in Sri Lanka. Once the Portugese/Dutch/British etc. left, the remaining people too should technically be assimilated by the dominant community. In other words, it is wrong to refer to a so called “Burgher community”. They must either be called Sinhalese, or better yet, invaders, so others don’t go getting any ideas.

      I propose that Malays be called “trading invaders”, so we can distinguish them from militant invaders like Tamils.

      In any case, we must quickly make them all Sinhalese, like Dutugemenu did for Elara’s retinue so many years ago.

      • yapa

        Dear SD;

        This is not addressing my points just mocking at humiliating at them. May be my points are wrong, but show, prove, or back with evidence that my points are wrong in a proper way. Humiliating air is according to my understanding is an effort to win the match, when counter arguments are not available. (If I mocked at you, you can see it was always with facts and reasons, can you show an exception in my responses.I use only facts and arguments to strengthen my arguments)

        Exploring my connection to Nalin De Silva or any other has no any relevance to my arguments. I have never quoted to him to back my arguments. Please stick to arguments and to arguments only.

        A appreciate your decent co-operation in this regard. (unlike unruly and irresponsible behaviour exhibited by people like BalangodaMan)

        I expect a decent response to my post.

        Thank you!

      • SD

        Dear Yapa,

        It’s unfortunate that you do not consider my observations with seriousness. I was taking your arguments into consideration and trying to think them through to their conclusions. Why do you find such an exercise to be absurd?

        Which part of what I said do you disagree with?
        Do you disagree with
        a. How Tamils from 2000 years ago to 700 years ago were assimilated?
        b. How a Tamil community materialized into existence 700 years ago?
        c. That by thinking along those same lines, Burghers and other communities are also varieties of invaders?

        Are you saying that I have not paraphrased a. and b. exactly as you mentioned them? If not, please show where I’ve done so.

        Have I inferred incorrectly on point c? Why are you making these unfair accusations?

        This does not indicate a commitment to following through and standing by the ideas you hold dear.

      • yapa

        Dear SD;

        If you decided to settle for a decent engagement that is fine. We can continue with it. may we confine to facts, evidence and arguments only?

        Thanks!

      • BalangodaMan

        Mr Yapa,
        re.Settlers:
        I can think of 3 categories. Which ones are ‘authorised’ in your view, Mr Yapa?
        (1) Where the inhabitants are too weak to object, or resist. You have called these ‘unauthorised’. You cited the Portuguese, Dutch, British colonisers as examples. This argument falls down because in Lanka a similar ‘invasion’ occurred 2,500 years ago – by all accounts the inhabitants of Lanka had no chance to object, or have the nous to realise that they will be relegated to the forests for millennia even if they survive. Today how many of the Veddas are in Parliament? In public life? Rich?
        (2) Where it is ‘authorised’ by international law. For instance, if immigration that occurred more than 2,499 years ago is deemed to be ‘authorised’ but anything later (eg. 700 years) is deemed ‘invasion’ by law. To my knowledge no such law exists. If it does then most people in most countries are ‘invaders’.
        (3) Where it is decreed ‘authorised’ by some higher being. This is the case you Mr Yapa appears to subscribe to I believe, based on your writing and the sources you cite. It would save us all a lot of time if you simply tell us that this is what you are trying to say, instead of going round the mulberry bush trying to avoid explicitly saying it.

        No need to respond. Just analysing your writing this far.

      • yapa

        Dear SD;

        “Ok. Tell me whether I’ve got your argument right. Your point seems to be that once Dutugemnu defeated Elara, all remaining Tamils peacefully assimilated themselves with the Sinhalese till not a trace of their Tamilness remained.”

        Really the Tamil invader who came here were soldiers, and it is reasonable to think that only a few civilians accompanied them if so happened. You know what happen to soldiers after a defeat in a war. Do you think they would assimilate themselves under a enemy rule? I mean soldiers?

        “Despite continuous invasions and South Indian influence, the Sinhalese continued to assimilate and eliminate Tamilness from all migrant Tamils from 2000 years ago till about 700 years ago. Invading Tamils quickly learnt Sinhalese, abandoned their former customs and learnt Buddhism, thus becoming Sinhalese in the process. In other words, no Tamilsexisted in Sri Lanka.”

        See her how you “produce” facts for my arguments and propose them to me. Don’t you think that it would be better to let me my facts for my arguments? Isn’t there an air of humour in your sentence “Invading Tamils quickly learnt Sinhalese, abandoned their former customs and learnt Buddhism, thus becoming Sinhalese in the process.” I don’t understand whether you are doing this purposely or due to lack of your understanding the history of this country. If latter is the reason I think it is better you learn from others than proposing and offering knowledge to others.

        Anyway, it is a fact that there was no a prominent Tamil civilization or culture prevailed in this country until the 13th century, when Aryachakravarhti’s captured Jaffna Peninsula and continued the rule for about 200 years. That is the first point of continuous Tamil presence in Sri Lanka. This is amply evident by archeological findings. Can you name a prominent “Hindu Kovil” over 700 years old other than a few found in Polonnaruwa, built mainly for the use of Hindu wives of Sinhalese kings? Sri Lankan Tamil Pofessor Karthigesu Indrapala also reiterates that there was no significant Tamil settlements in Sri Lanka, before Aryachakrawvarthi’s invasion of Jaffna Peninsula. Further, it should be noted that no Tamils have ever invaded North or East of this country, before Aryachakravarthi.

        Thanks!

      • SD

        Dear Yapa,

        RE: “You know what happen to soldiers after a defeat in a war. Do you think they would assimilate themselves under a enemy rule? I mean soldiers?”

        What, you mean all the soldiers who lived in Sri Lanka for 44 years fled, leaving all their possessions behind? Or wait! Goodness! You mean Dutugemunu slaughtered them all?

        RE: “Sri Lankan Tamil Pofessor Karthigesu Indrapala also reiterates that there was no significant Tamil settlements in Sri Lanka, before Aryachakrawvarthi’s invasion of Jaffna Peninsula.”

        Yapa, are you sure of your facts? To my knowledge, Indrapala has only stated that evidence of Tamil settlements were not found in Batticoloa and the southern areas. Afaik, he has acknowledged the existence of a Jaffna kingdom. It would be good if someone familiar with his thesis and knowledgeable in this area can provide some input. (Preferably of a less humorous calibre than speculations of Elara’s soldiers fleeing all the way to Tamil Nadu with their sarongs to their ears – or maybe with their amudes in a twist)

        Can you cite any other established academics who claim that no Tamils existed in Sri Lanka before 700 years ago?

      • yapa

        What, you mean all the soldiers who lived in Sri Lanka for 44 years fled, leaving all their possessions behind? Or wait! Goodness! You mean Dutugemunu slaughtered them all?

        “RE: “Sri Lankan Tamil Pofessor Karthigesu Indrapala also reiterates that there was no significant Tamil settlements in Sri Lanka, before Aryachakrawvarthi’s invasion of Jaffna Peninsula.”

        Yapa, are you sure of your facts? To my knowledge,”
        …………

        I am very sure of it.
        ………………….
        ……………………

        “Indrapala has only stated that evidence of Tamil settlements were not found in Batticoloa and the southern areas.”
        ……….

        Not at all. There should be no one to tell there was no Tamil settlements in Batticolo, it has never been invaded by Tamils. Even the Jffna Kingdom did not spread to Baticolo Further, Jaffna Kingdom was there between 1215-1624 BC for 109 years only. Even within that period “Prince Sapumal” went to “Yapa Patuna” and established the rule of the Sinhala king of Kotte. Except Aryachakravarthis, no Tamil invader ever had invaded North or East of the country. They invaded mainly Anuradhapuraya, Polonnaruwa ares, mainly capital cities. So possibility of having Tamil settlements in Jaffna is very remote and this is amply evident by the Archeological facts found in Jaffna area. Go to the Jaffna Museum and see, almost all the old artifacts are of Sinhales. You can find even ancient Sinhala writings. Go to Kandarodei (Kadurugoda) and see, 65 small Dagabos. Nagadeepa and Naga Vihara are not old Tamil kovils. Further, if you see carefully you will notice that Tamils artifacts and others found in Jaffna Museum, much of them are made of wooden and comparatively very new. Further, Jaffna Peninsula has more ancient Buddhist monuments than Hindu monuments. No Tamil Buddhist army ever invades Sri Lanka! I think you know about Vallipuram Gold plate, it is a clear case of existence of Sinhala rule in Jaffna. Further, do you know where Sangamitta Therini landed in Sri lanka? It was Dambakolapatuna, in Jaffna Peninsula. Do you know that king Devanampiyatissa himself went to accept “Srima Bo sapling” to Dambakolapatuna all the way from Anuradhapuraya? Do you know there there was a well pave road all along from Anuradhapura to Dambakolapatuna?

        Do you want me to show that Prof. Indrapala aceept the fact that there were no significant Tamils settlements in Sri Lanka, I think before I think 12th or 13th century, when he was not a “mental prisoner of Tamil nationalism? He not only said that he said many of the Hindu monuments were built on the Buddhist monuments and using and destructing Buddhist monuments. I provided the link to Indrapala’s writing several times in this forum about one year back and recently in DBSJ’s forum. You can go through it and see his stance.
        …………………
        …………………….

        “Afaik, he has acknowledged the existence of a Jaffna kingdom. It would be good if someone familiar with his thesis and knowledgeable in this area can provide some input.”

        (Preferably of a less humorous calibre than speculations of Elara’s soldiers fleeing all the way to Tamil Nadu with their sarongs to their ears – or maybe with their amudes in a twist)

        Can you cite any other established academics who claim that no Tamils existed in Sri Lanka before 700 years ago?”
        ……………….

        Your problem is you have know any knowledge of many of the subject areas discussed and you try to crack nuts using others knowledge, and on pure speculations. Many things are of humorous caliber when they are unfamiliar to and heard for the first time. ( Here you have admitted you used humorous air at my facts, though you denied it earlier. Before I pointed out You were even of the view to accept that Tamils are the original inhabitants of this country, when Vijaya arrived. That much was your knowledge of the History of this country, and you still try to mock at me. Compared to you ( I stress you))my knowledge of History is mountainous, I don’t think you are qualified to mock at my knowledge, just after coming into touch many things for the first time from me. If you have counter arguments or evidence to say that Soldiers of Elara settled after they lost the war, you could have presented it with facts, evidence and arguments, not just off hand doubting and just off hand air of mockery. I saw some new English word new for me was given by Off the Cuff in one of his posts, that is akin to “ungrateful” I think, you know your English better and if you remember please be kind enough to mention it for my benefit too.

        You want me to give more evidence from other sources?

        1. Tamil Epic of South India mentions about the people who then living in North of Sri Lanka as Nagas who are using a different language
        (than Tamil)

        2. Please read CEYLON GAZETTEER in the given link. The author clearly says that “Malabaries” living in Jaffna area are of the origin of “Coromandel coast region of India.

        http://www.google.lk/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CBoQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fopenlibrary.org%2Fbooks%2FOL5032292M%2FThe_Ceylon_gazetteer&rct=j&q=CEYLON%20GAZETTEER&ei=1uOeTZesDYjUrQellrnrAg&usg=AFQjCNFBJDs8_p6EbH8iHtdOWx59lDJUAg&cad=rja

        3. Read Mudaliyar C. Rasanayagam book in the link given below. This Tamil gentlemen is also very unbiased in his writing.

        http://www.google.lk/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CBkQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sinhalese.s5.com%2Fancoentjaffna.htm&rct=j&q=ancient%20jaffna&ei=8uSeTbjVLYeGrAfQ-dCIAw&usg=AFQjCNET4yaLY5G5Q-4wDvG4IoDwl5AP-w&cad=rja

        Further, If you have a will to find the truth of the Sri Lankan History, I recommend you there are many better ways rather than speculations and mocking at the people who are a little bit interested in it.

        On the other hand just think why any opposition to my writing is not felt? I am not wriring in my private room with closed doors and windows.

        Thanks!

      • yapa
      • yapa

        Dear SD;

        “What, you mean all the soldiers who lived in Sri Lanka for 44 years fled, leaving all their possessions behind? Or wait! Goodness! You mean Dutugemunu slaughtered them all?”

        What happened to the British soldiers who live about 150 years, after the country was handed back to us in 1948, even without any defeat?

        Do you think D.S.Senanayake slaughtered them all?

        There is no any record of a single British soldier left in Sri lanka after the independence was awarded.

        Or wait! Goodness! You mean D.S.Senanayake……..all?”

        Pure speculative off hand mockery!

        Thanks!

      • yapa

        Dear SD;

        I am sorry to observe that your main learning method seems to be “Trial & Error”. You speculate about things without information, and see how many times I had to correct you. You must have seen that many of your bold guesses have become wrong, I had to prove them to you.

        It has become a practice of you to keep on guessing at your heart’s content and I have to keep track on you to correct you frequently, whenever you make a guess. Your bravery in guessing has provided a strenuous permanent job for me.

        Why don’t you learn from your mistakes and release me from that tiresome job?

        Thanks!

      • yapa

        Dear SD;

        Obvious facts for your information please.

        “There are today two groups of Tamils in Sri Lanka. The first are the Sri Lankan Tamils, who either descend from the Tamils of the old Jaffna kingdom or who migrated to the East coast. The second are the Indian Tamils or Hill Country Tamils, who are descendants of bonded labourers sent from Tamil Nadu to Sri Lanka in the 19th century to work in tea plantations.[2] Sri Lankan Tamils mostly live in the Northern and Eastern provinces and in the capital of Colombo, whereas hill-country Tamils largely live in the central highlands.[1] The Hill Country Tamils and Ceylon Tamils historically have seen themselves as separate communities. In 1949, the United National Party Government, which included G. G. Ponnambalam, a leader of the Tamil Congress and of the Sri Lankan Tamils, stripped the Indian Tamils of their nationality, including their right to vote. Prominent Tamil political leaders such as S. J. V. Chelvanayakam and his Tamil opposition party opposed this move.[3]”

        Under an agreement between the Sri Lankan and Indian governments in the 1960s, around 40% of Hill Country Tamils were granted Sri Lankan nationality, and many of the remainder were repatriated to India.[4] However, the ethnic conflict has led to the growth of a greater sense of common Tamil identity, and the two groups are now more supportive of each other.[5] By the 1990s most Indian Tamils had received Sri Lankan citizenship.[4]

        http://www.google.lk/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CCMQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FIndian_Tamils_of_Sri_Lanka&rct=j&q=citizens%20act%20of%20sri%20lanka&ei=zRqfTfqHGc6mrAfru_2DAw&usg=AFQjCNGDHiMDh6kYmSXaA_4gatEvuVSaBQ&cad=rja

        Thanks!

      • SD

        Dear Yapa,

        RE: “What happened to the British soldiers who live about 150 years, after the country was handed back to us in 1948, even without any defeat?

        Do you think D.S.Senanayake slaughtered them all?”

        Once again you’re quite right Yapa, and I might indeed have been mistaken. As you argue, the Portuguese, Dutch, British, Tamils etc. all left, leaving no trace behind. This lends further credence to the logical consequences of your theory – that the Burgher community for example, is deluding itself. They are not a different ethnic group, they are Sinhala Buddhists, only, they just don’t realize it.

        The case you’re building that ethnic communities disappear after invaders leave is getting stronger and stronger. Why some of these communities insist on being labelled differently, instead of discovering their non-existence and becoming proper Sinhala-Buddhists, is the tragedy of our times 🙁

        We must educate them.

      • yapa

        Dear SD:

        “Once again you’re quite right Yapa, and I might indeed have been mistaken. As you argue, the Portuguese, Dutch, British, Tamils etc. all left, leaving no trace behind. This lends further credence…………”

        You have to resort to hilarious remarks when you have no required knowledge for discussion bot your useless empty scholarly pride.

        Did you disprove any of my argument or provided any evidence against them rather than just laughing at them like a moron? It is scholarly very indecent and does not display civility.

        You have no any idea of assimilation processes of people, I put to you. You are just acting on the “Trial & Error” basis to throw mud at the people who have different opinions and facts than yours to save your skin of empty scholarly pride. You have subscribed no any valuable input to the discussion, but exhibiting ungratefulness and wickedness.

        If you want as in the past I can teach that lesson about assimilation too to you.

        Thanks, for a civil and decent behaviour!

    • yapa

      Dear SD;

      “You said Dutugemnu was not Tamil because he denigrated Tamils 2000 years ago.
      Now you say Tamils do no have a history beyond 700 years, although Wijayapala says his own in-laws have documents tracing family history that far back. If a single family has documented history for 700 years, how on earth are you claiming that the history of all Tamils is less than 700 years?”

      I think other than wijayapala’s in-laws problem others I have already addressed.wijayapal says their history runs back to 600- 700 years in jaffna. This does not contradict anything I said, but fortifies what I said. I never denied some Tamils in Jaffna have a history about 700 years. It goes with what I say.

      “RE: “What special privileges are Sinhalese entitled to?”

      What I had said above is the answer for the above question.”

      I think you accept what I said about the special entitlemnets of Sinhalese in terms of civilization building and temporal dimension. You have raised a doubt about my suggestion that they also are entitled for special privileges in terms of their custodianship of the great Philosophy, Buddhism. If not for Sinhalese no Buddhism, especially Theravada Buddhism would be preserved. Most important book writing project, writing Tripitaka on Ola leaves was done by Sinhalese Buddhist monks on the patronage of Sinhalese king Walagamba. Without having an understanding about Buddhism, its philosophical and practical value I have seen you have been undermining and mocking at it, as some other ordinary nonsensical religion. But the scholars of the world really have understood its importance. I think preserving Buddhism and undertaking its guardianship and executing it to the extent of their lives is a great work that deserve special treatment not only from this country, but also from the whole world. It won’t take much time that to be convinced to you when more and more Modern scientists and philosophers engage in studying and analyzing the miraculous doctrines in it. When people do not know the gravity of something he simply can mock at it, call it dogma or any other insulting words. But for a person who has a slightest knowledge of Buddhism knows its seriousness. It is an “Akalika” dhamma (does not become outdated with time)

      So, I have justified the entitlement of special privileges, I think no reasonable person would deny them. Now you expect me to name the special privileges.Really I don’t think it is a beyond my individual competencies. I will explain it with an example. I know that our country needs a constitution for the governance of this country. However, I cannot cannot give an off hand answer if I am asked to name the constituents of it. It is a massive and very subtle task that should be decided by lengthy discussions by experts and the people of this country. Same way, I am not in a position to list out the privileges, they should be given, however, I am confident they are entitled to some special privileges. I think even olden day people of this country knew this and that is why they requested special treatment for Buddhism when the Kandyan agreement was signed. Even British colonials accepted this fact. I think consciousness of the people of this country, intuitively knew this and that is why Buddhism has a special place in the constitution of this country.

      If I ask the simple question, don’t you think contributiers deserve special treatments?

      “Again, you seem to prefer obfuscation over clarity, to the point of it appearing to be deliberately deceptive. What prevents you from providing a clear, unambiguous answer to such a simple question? What privileges are the Sinhalese entitled to based on ethnicity?”

      I think that was your mis-understanding over my process of my explanation it to you. I think I did an effective explanation using that method.

      Thanks!

      • SD

        Dear Yapa,

        Thank you. Why is “Sinhaly Only” needed to preserve Buddhism? That’s an issue I find confusing.

      • SD

        Dear Yapa,

        RE: “I think that was your mis-understanding over my process of my explanation it to you. I think I did an effective explanation using that method.”

        No you didn’t. You wasted time and a lot of space on this forum, when a simple, direct answer would have saved everyone the trouble.

      • BalangodaMan

        I echo SD’s question: why is Sinhala needed to preserve Buddhism? It exists in a range of non-Sinhala environments in the world (including Theravada Buddhism) where it flourishes in a purer form than in SL (I am reminded of the late Ven. Soma Thero’s first article in the Sunday Times which was about popular Buddhism in SL being more a mixture of other religions than being Buddhism. The date of article: 18 August comes to mind, not sure which year).

        Mr Yapa, is there any impediment to the Tamil population, or any non-Sinhala speakers, in SL being also Buddhist? After all the stanzas are in Pali, not Sinhalese. Can’t Burghers be Buddhists?

      • yapa

        Dear SD;

        “Thank you. Why is “Sinhaly Only” needed to preserve Buddhism? That’s an issue I find confusing.”

        Really at present I have no fair knowledge of “Sinhala Only” concept/Act. However, I don’t think it has any relevance or anybody expected to preserve Buddhism when the concept/Act was presented as you claimed. However, I think I need to have some awareness about it, and will learn a bit about it soon.

        However, as I said earlier in the other thread we are having a discussion with DB, Sinhala Only act came as a response to 50 – 50 demand and unacceptable “blackmailing demands” by Tamils from Sinhalese, on the basis high mind set developed under the patronage of British colonials.

        One should understand that reactions in Social Science do not follow the third Law of Newton’s Laws of Motion; ie, “Every action has an equal and opposite reaction.” An action of throwing a pebble at a lion may arouse the opposite reaction to devour the doer, which is not equal in reaction.As per the knowledge I have so far about “Sinhala Only”, my opinion is it is a reaction monster appeared to counter naughty actions of a tiger cub.

        Thanks!

      • yapa

        An addition to my last post……

        I think same thing applies to 83 communal riots.

        Killing action of 13 soldiers led to an unequal social reaction. Magnitudes of social actions and reactions are not similar though they are opposite in direction.

        Therefore, one have to be more cautious when initiating a social action.

        Thanks!

  • SD

    Dear Yapa,

    “Onerous duty” means heavy obligation. I am simply acknowledging the serious responsibilities we Sinhalese have, responsibilities so grave in nature that it must indeed deprive us all of sleep. What makes you think I was mocking? Just think about all the forces arrayed against us.

    1. Invading Tamil hordes
    2. Western conspirators trying to destabilize the region (Breakup India)
    3. Indians trying to prevent that eventuality by taking over the whole of Sri Lanka
    4. Christians intent on destroying Buddhism
    5. NGOs obtaining funding from No. 2 and No. 4 above to carry out their dirty work
    6. The Tamil diaspora trying to resurrect the LTTE
    7. The greater Eelam conspiracy – the Tamil master plan to reunite Northern Sri Lanka with Southern India
    8. The Norwegians and their fishing & oil interests
    9. Neo-colonial Sinhalese elites and their hangers-on who worship the ground that westerners walk on, to the extent of being willing to sell their mothers for a discarded KFC bone as you’ve said before. (I used to be in this category, before you opened my eyes to the truth. No longer will I throw my lot in and be used by these contemptible liberal-elitist-atheist-western agents, like Balangodaman and Blacker)
    10. Tamil elites whose filthy greed started all this trouble

    just to name a few. All in all, it’s a miracle, blessed a thousand fold by the Buddha’s triple tryst in Sri Lanka, that Buddhism has survived such ravages from the blackened hears of evil-doers, and a testimony to the triumph of truth, goodness and beauty against all odds. I salute your brave and fearless efforts in this regard. Why on earth an acknowledgement of the facts you have often emphasized would be misconstrued as mockery, is beyond me and saddens my heart.

  • SD

    Dear GV,

    I would kindly request an edit to my previous post. (http://groundviews.org/2011/03/18/jaffna-moments-of-nostalgia/comment-page-1/#comment-29871)

    Item no. 1 should be.
    1. Invading Tamil hordes, followed by Dutch, Portuguese and British imperialists

    Also, it should be “blackened hearts” and not “blackened hears” in the last paragraph.

    Thanks.

  • SD

    Dear Yapa,

    RE: “I used to be a teacher. I used different different methods to make my teaching effective. “

    Oh so Longus was right. You are a retired teacher.

    However, please do keep in mind that this forum is inhabited by educated and busy adults. They don’t have time to waste on unnecessary diversions for a simple question requiring an honest and direct answer.

    I for one will not engage with you further if you do not plan to communicate directly, honestly and to the point. [Edited out.]

  • Off the Cuff

    Hello Old Friends, Yapa, SD, BM, Wijepala, Observer, Heshan, Burning Issue and the new ones that I see in this discussion. Just checked GV after a long time and read most of the discussion on this thread.

    Racists do use a lot of History to justify their viewpoints and to that end quote out of recorded History.

    Non Racists also quote out of recorded history to prove their points.

    It would be juvenile to assume that Racists and Non racists can be differentiated by observing who does and who doesn’t use Recorded History.

    It would be downright foolhardy to denigrate the Recorded History as Racist, just because Racists quote from them.

    Could not help noticing the following statement from BM

    “Mr Yapa, the reason there is ‘no way of sending them back’ is this. In order to do so you would have to send back a proportion of yourself, of me, of SD, and all the people who presently inhabit SL. Such is the distribution of Tamil genes in SL in the present day. And to finish the job you would have to send many parts (of each and every one of us) to far off lands such as Portugal, Holland and Britain too (I doubt they’ll be too happy to receive them!). So which part of your body would you like to start sending back first?”

    Quite an interesting point of view.

    It would be an enlightening exercise and a breakthrough in genetics to be able to identify each part of the body of a Sinhalese that belongs to each contributing race, a prerequisite before dispatching them …… Probably BM could name them.

    I do not believe that the existence of a Pure Race is a possibility anywhere.

    • yapa

      Dear Off the Cuff;

      Warmly welcome back!

      Thanks!

    • SD

      Dear OTC,

      Welcome back!

      RE: “It would be downright foolhardy to denigrate the Recorded History as Racist, just because Racists quote from them.”

      Quite right! Unfortunately, some people don’t realize that history is exactly that, history. When a mind dwells in feudal times, 21st century norms are the equivalent of Star Trek for cavemen.

      • yapa

        Dear SD;

        “Quite right! Unfortunately, some people don’t realize that history is exactly that, history. When a mind dwells in feudal times, 21st century norms are the equivalent of Star Trek for cavemen.”

        Don’t try to be the judge of your own case.

        We will engage in the dialogue and let others decide. Shall we become only debtors,not judges at the same time?

        Thanks!

      • Off the Cuff

        SD,

        The Mahawansa is a record of History.
        It may be unpalatable to the Eelamists.

        If it was a Racist document there would have been a counter to it at that time.

        Is anyone aware of a competing record of history written by the Tamils during the same period, to counter the alleged racist nature of the Mahawansa ?

    • BalangodaMan

      Off the Cuff,
      “I do not believe that the existence of a Pure Race is a possibility anywhere.”
      Exactly my point, hence making much of Mr Yapa’s rantings irrelevant today and tomorrow.
      Welcome back.

      • Off the Cuff

        Dear BD,

        Genetic mix and Ethnic identity are two completely different things.

        The first is inherited and the second evolves with the environment.

        If your family were Tamils that hated the Sinhalese most probably you would hate them too. If your family are friends of the Sinhalese then most probably you would be too. Inter marriages would be possible in such a case leading to a genetically mixed progeny.

      • Off the Cuff

        Dear Bman,
        (this is to prevent confusion between you and Decker, BM and BD is easily confused)

        1. You have resorted to name calling.

        2. Hence decency calls for you to either apologise or substantiate what you say

        3. Yapa has challenged you to prove what you say http://groundviews.org/2011/03/18/jaffna-moments-of-nostalgia/comment-page-1/#comment-29884

        4. You have consistently ignored that challenge without giving a direct answer.

        5. If you cannot answer directly there should be a reason for it.

        6. If you continue to avoid giving a direct answer it will reinforce the view that your accusation was frivolous in the first place.

        7. We look for a healthy argument. Frivolous Name calling should have no place within it.

        8. Please note that my objection is for FRIVOLOUS name calling and not JUSTIFIED name calling. A Liar should be called a Liar if you can prove it but not otherwise.

      • BalangodaMan

        re. ‘frivolous name calling’ OTC, the discussion has moved on below. Refer to the dictionary definition of ‘racism’ given below, which Mr Yapa appears to reject. As I said, the topic currently under discussion is racism. It is not derogatory to acknowledge the relative positions of the participants – eg. in this debate Mr Yapa takes a racist stance, while SD takes the opposite stance (as I do). Hope that ends this diversion.

  • yapa

    Dear SD;

    “RE: “I used to be a teacher. I used different different methods to make my teaching effective. “

    Oh so Longus was right. You are a retired teacher.”

    NO!!!!, Both of you are wrong. I am a young man like you and still working.

    [(my)correct information —–> (your) wrong conclusion]

    “However, please do keep in mind that this forum is inhabited by educated and busy adults. They don’t have time to waste on unnecessary diversions for a simple question requiring an honest and direct answer.

    I for one will not engage with you further if you do not plan to communicate directly, honestly and to the point”

    You must have seen my particular question was relevant and necessary to answer your question if you have gone through my final answer to your question.

    I never acted dishonestly and never expect to do in future. I don’t need the blessing of dishonesty to prove my points. But, I must tell that there are questions that cannot be answered directly, some need ground preparation before addressing the question. I don’t think it is a reason for anger.

    Be cool, dear SD.

    Thanks!

    • SD

      Dear Yapa,

      Well, I’m glad that you did provide a fairly clear reply. However, you could have laid our your answer simply and directly, we would have all saved time and it would have been far more effective.

      However, you did not reply to one particular question: What privileges are the Sinhalese entitled to based on ethnicity?

      Also, with regard to my previous post highlighting 10 external forces threatening the Sinhalese. Which, in your personal opinion, is the most dangerous one? Which is perceived as most dangerous by the general public? Have I missed any other threatening forces?

      • yapa

        Dear SD;

        Give me a little time. You must have seen how much I had to post as responses to the various “demands” by many. I did not address only this no? Invariably I will address it. It is another good opportunity to prove my points, as earlier, I never waste opportunities I get.

        Thanks!

      • yapa

        Dear SD;

        The crux of my arguments was to say that Tamils in Sri Lanka has no history over 700 years. I have given my facts, evidence and arguments on your request.

        Do you say my points are wrong?

        If so break my points specifically giving counter fact, counter evidence and counter argument. I have no faith in any other modes.

        Please counter my points formally if you think they are incorrect.

        Thanks

      • yapa

        Dear SD;

        I think this is the final question of yours I have to answer from which posed to me for answers. I think I gave a bit valid and comprehensive arguments in support of my views. Now, if you have any points you disagree with of my arguments, I would like you to break them with sound arguments. I have no objection for anybody else’ intervention too.

        Now on to your final query,

        “Also, with regard to my previous post highlighting 10 external forces threatening the Sinhalese. Which, in your personal opinion, is the most dangerous one? Which is perceived as most dangerous by the general public? Have I missed any other threatening forces?”

        Those 10 points came as a further explanation of your mockery concept of “onerous duty”. I have no any idea of such a duty, which was explained at length by your mockery 10 point further explanation. I don’t like to be another clown answering some clowny questions and also because, my not answering makes no harm to the main discussion. Therefore, I prefer, your own answers to your own onerous questions!

        Thanks, SD!

      • SD

        Dear Yapa,

        I’m sorry to see that you don’t seem to take your own self seriously. You have said that Tamils did not exist till 700 years ago, and all who remain are descendants of invaders. I took your claim seriously, and went on to infer that Burghers and Malays should be classified the same way. You consider it a mockery. Why? Is it not a logical inference, similar in nature to your application of it to Tamils?

        Then you say that Buddhism needs to be protected. Again, I took your claim seriously, and highlighted the forces that it needs protection from. Again, you say it is mockery. Are you suggesting that these forces are not valid, and that the burden is not weighty enough, for Buddhism to need any protection? They why were you arguing for it in the first place?

        Do you consider your own ideas to be so absurd, that taking them seriously automatically results in ludicrousness and mockery? If that is the case, I would suggest Yapa, that it is more reflective of the calibre of your own thinking, that a fault in my own. Again I ask you, do you take your own statements seriously or not?

      • yapa

        Dear SD;

        “Do you consider your own ideas to be so absurd, that taking them seriously automatically results in ludicrousness and mockery? If that is the case, I would suggest Yapa, that it is more reflective of the calibre of your own thinking, that a fault in my own. Again I ask you, do you take your own statements seriously or not?”

        I am very serious.

        I don’t take one serious thing as serous and another serious thing as not serious.

        I really know analyzing and understanding an issue is one serious thing and recommending solution to is is another serious thing. I don’t think one should necessarily take up both duties.

        These issues are very serious in nature that one also should no expect ready made solutions to take out from one’s coat sleeve.

        I feel like continuous easy going questions and air of humour on serious issues as something not serious and not encouraging.

        If your ultimate idea is to re-establish what you had believed earlier, just defeating the fresh ideas you experienced in the discussion, I think a discussion is pointless. Some respect should be there, for alternative views until at least they are doubted in reasonable ground. Not only that respect should be there, it should be visible to others too. Just off hand air of humour is not conducive for a healthy debate.

        I have said earlier too I am sensitive to “Dore handa and P-de” handa. We must engage in the debate in good faith. We should not be in the objective of finding an opportunity to undermine the opposition at the first instance we get.

        I think we should develop healthy debating skills too.

        Thanks!

  • Off the Cuff

    Racism, The Vadukkodi Resolution, the Amirthalingams’ and The “Boys”

    The following excerpts are verbatim quotes taken from the references indicated. They provide a clear indication of the enviorenment which formed the backdrop to the Vadukkodi Resolution. Of course as some contributors like to paint, Racism was nowhere to be seen.

    “Mrs. Amirthalingam’s vivisection of the LTTE and its fifth columnists in the TULF is replete with irony. Over twenty five years ago in 1976, when the TULF adopted the now famous Vadukkodai Resolution publicly advocating separatism, she as a fiery orator on the TULF platform disported herself in bashing the Sinhalese and calling for a struggle to carve out an exclusive Tamil enclave in Sri Lanka. Many a Tamil youth answered that cry and a few years later with the TULF as the main Opposition party in Parliament the country witnessed the emergence of the northern terrorism backed by India.

    The Amirthalingams were feeding the Frankenstein monster. She and her late husband fondly called the terrorists including Prabhakaran ‘boys’. Prabhakaran was in and out of their house enjoying their hospitality. How the creature devoured the creator is well known and the rest is history.

    A graphic description of the cold-blooded assassination of Mr. Amirthalingam finds itself in Narayan Swamy’s latest book, Inside an Elusive Mind:

    “The visitors sipped tea, ate bananas and discussed general issues laughing loudly over silly jokes. In a flash, the head of the [LTTE] killer squad put down his teacup, whipped out a revolver and shot dead Amirthalingam point blank. Before anyone could react, he killed the dead man’s close colleague, V. Yogeswaran. A third TULF leader, M. Sivasithambaram, was also shot but survived. The killers tried to escape but were shot dead by the police.” (pp 209)…”

    Ref http://www.island.lk/2003/12/04/editoria.html

    “During the election campaign, Mr and Mrs Amirthalingam spoke at numerous places and directed their aggressive and insulting remarks more towards the Sinhala masses as opposed to the Sinhala leadership or government. Many young people who attended these meetings remember how Mrs Amirthalingam promised to rip off the skin of the Sinhala people and wear it as slippers when they were elected. A number of Tamil youths were recruited to the militant organisations by attending these meetings but were given no education whatsoever about the history of Sri Lanka or the origin of the ethnic conflict.

    Right-wing propaganda claimed that the Sinhala people have always been racist towards Tamils. They made no attempt whatsoever to explain how Sinhala workers and poor stood shoulder to shoulder with Tamil workers and poor to defend the rights of minorities.

    Ref http://www.tamilsolidarity.org/?p=926

    • SD

      Dear OTC,

      I think the issues you have pointed out, are not only interesting, but valid observations on the runaway nature of Tamil nationalism, which was overwhelmed and ultimately defeated because the racism it unleashed probably ended up eclipsing the racism displayed by the Sinhalese.

      That may well be an interesting discussion for another time, but I believe that Tamil racism is now largely irrelevant, or impotent, thanks to the well-deserved death of the LTTE. The more pressing concern is what the Sinhalese do. Would you agree with that statement?

      That’s why the main issues under discussion and must be resolved first are:
      1. Are Tamils invaders?
      2. Did no group called “Tamils” exist in SL before 700 years ago?
      3. Are the Sinhalese entitled to extra privileges based on their ethnicity?
      4. What are those privileges?

      Yapa answers in the affirmative for all questions except the first – Yapa believes that Tamils were former invaders now naturalised due to historical reasons (i.e. Soldiers belonging to Arya Chakravarthy). Yapa has not yet answered the fourth question.

      Balangodaman’s position is not quite clear at the moment.

      I hope others will also shed some light on this issue, perhaps David or Wijayapala would care to comment?

      What is your position?

      • yapa

        Dear SD;

        In this regard, a set of arguments I submitted in the DBSJ’s forum would be useful. Please find them below,

        #

        413. yapa | March 24th, 2011 at 11:58 am

        Thank you, 412. Somapala, for making my ideas clearer. I will try to elaborate on the subject soon. Really, according to my understanding not that they don’t understand these things, but they have been brainwashed by the greedy educated Tamils for a long time that their brains are not accustomed to accept the truths.

        Anyway, before that I would like to give a few more points that Devananda’s theory cannot stand.

        1. Sri Lanka has been inhabited even before 35,000 years, according to the proven facts of archeology. (Balangoda Man)

        2. Tamils migrated to Southern India around 3000 BC from Africa, according to the accepted theory. Therefore the early inhabitants lived 35,000 years before were not Tamils.

        3. It is very reasonable to assume that the early inhabitants Balangoda man’s descendants lived during the period of 3000 BC and continued to live thereafter too. It is believed so and reasonable to believe that Yakkas and Nagas were descendants of them and “Vedda Community” is their present link.

        4. Even before 3000 BC, Sri Lanka was separated from Indian sub continent, according to historical records. During that pre-historic era, it is irrational to think that there was a considerable flux of people from the subcontinent across the sea. Further, Veddas are not similar to Tamils in their physical characteristics or linguistic characteristics, and hence it is reasonable to deduce that Yakkas and Nagas were not Tamils,but the descendants of the inhabitants of the Balangoda man’s era. Further, there is no historical records regarding human influx before Vijaya’s arrival, hence Tamil connection to Yakkas and Nagas has no credibility.

        5. According to the recent excavations in Anuradhapura, it was established that Sri lanka had a city civilisation, around 1000 BC. Mahawansa also corroborates this saying that Vijaya heard a big noise of a wedding ceremony of Yakka tribe when he arrived here.

        6. Therefore it is reasonable to deduce that the community continued after Vijaya’s arrival were mostly native Yakkas, Nagas and Aryans arrived from India. They got mixed up and became a single nation Sinhalese, after the community accepted Buddhism as their common religion during the period of king Devanampiyatissa. A few among the community that did not accept Buddhism lived separately away from the main community and they were continued to become Vedda community. There was no any South Indian Invasion until this period (Devanampiyatissa period) and hence there was no Tamil influence in thae community live during his time, except the few Tamils wives brought by a few kings. Hence the Community lived here until this period in Sri Lanka was Sinhalese and Vedda community only.

        6. “Demala” (Tamil) influence first felt during the King Suratissa’s period by Sena and Guttika, for twenty years and after king Senaka by Elara. However, all those kings were defeated by Sinhalese and chased back. Therefore there was no considerable Tamil community left in Sri Lanka until 13th century. Further it should be noted that no any Tamil invader had invaded North or East of the country until 13th century, when Aryachakravarthi, captured Jaffna Penissula in the latter part of the 13th century. Therefore it is reasonable to deduce that there was no considerable Tamil community lived in North or East of Sri Lanka, until the 13th century. Professor Karthigesu Indrapala confirmed this in his PhD thesis. Further, lack of ancient Tamil/Hindu archeological monuments and the ample presence of ancient Buddhist monuments further reiterates this.

        7. From the facts mentioned above and the many independent historical records, it is proven that the Sinhalese developed a very advanced civilization based on non – violent Buddhist principles based on a magnificent irrigation system and the agriculture. Sinhalese did not slaughtered animals (after king Devanampiyatissa) to “develop their economy”, but relied on non-violent agriculture. “Weva – Dagaba” (Tank – Shrine) became their symbol of lives/civilization. So, none can claim that any other community as the civilization builders of the nation, none had that Buddhist back ground which is the guiding light of the civilization, amply evident by thousands of Buddhist monuments spread throughout the country.

        8. So the settling down of a Tamil community started after 13th century with the invasion of Aryachakravarthi, and there was no more than a few settlements of Tamils in North even according to Prof. K. Indrapala.

        9. Portuguese, Dutch and British colonial brought many Tamils from South India to work in Tobacco plantations in North and East and Tea plantations in up country.The majority of the Tamils living today in Up country,North and East are descendants of the people who came from India. It is also true that some of the Sinhalese who had lived in North and East Tamilized and became Tamils.

        10. Further, recent Genetic Studies show that Tamils and Sinhalese are different in their biology. This again is an evident that Yakkas and Nagas were not Tamils. If they were Tamils, Sinhala genetics should be similar to Tamils, because the main composite groups of Sinhalese are Yakkas and Nagas.

        Thanks!
        #

        414. yapa | March 26th, 2011 at 8:07 pm

        when my points at 413. are unchallenged, can any body (Tamils) claim that ” Sri Lanka had two parallel civilizations with common ancestry” prevailed in Sri Lanka, keep aside the claim that they were the native inhabitants of the country, lived as Yakkas and Nagas?

        They are just lies and propaganda fabricated to support to create that evil Tamil Homeland, Eelam.

        Anybody has any counter arguments?

        Thanks!

      • yapa

        Dear SD;

        Addressing Off the Cuff, you said,

        “That may well be an interesting discussion for another time, but I believe that Tamil racism is now largely irrelevant, or impotent, thanks to the well-deserved death of the LTTE.”

        Armed conflict is over, true. But ideological battle has been tightened to a higher level in international level through propaganda and manipulation. LTTE mythology is still very active,in cyber space and various other media. It is still most important and important than ever to defeat and uproot the root cause of all evil.

        Thanks!

      • Off the Cuff

        Dear SD,

        Here are the answers to your questions as I see them.

        1. All but the indigenous population are invaders at the time an invasion occurs. Hence the term “Invaders” is relative. The Europeans were Invaders in the Americas but they are not classified as such today. Same applies to Australia, New Zealand etc. The yardstick should remain the same for any other country including Sri Lanka.

        2. Probably so and probably not so but it may be irrelevant to the question of invaders. That’s a question for the Historians. But if you intend to tie it up with the first question it would be necessary to keep in mind that the Mahabaratha mentions a Sinhala Kingdom in book 1, Chapter 177. I do not know how old Mahabaratha Book 1 Chapter 177 is but the Wiki states thus “….The earliest parts of the text are not appreciably older than around 400 BCE”. The fact that a Sinhala Kingdom is mentioned in the Mahabaratha proves that the Sinhala Kingdom is older than the time it was written about in the book. The Mahabaratha pre-dates the Ramayanaya.

        3. Ethnicity is an accident of birth. No one should be deprived of a fundamental right or be accorded an enhanced fundamental right because of it. Everyone should enjoy the same Fundamental Privileges. All Lankans are guaranteed equal Fundamental Rights by her Constitution.

        4. Does not arise.

        You also raise the question ” ….The more pressing concern is what the Sinhalese do. Would you agree with that statement?”

        Unless the problem is defined what can the Sinhalese do?

        Hence my view is that the problem needs a clear definition first. Vague demands such as “Aspirations” or “50 – 50” or “exclusive homelands” wont do.

        Everyone has ‘aspirations’. These cannot be met if such aspirations trample the legitimate aspirations of others.

        50-50 is undemocratic. It cannot be defended by any sane person.

        The solution cannot be allowed to introduce new currently non existing problems.

        I believe that the Official Languages Act of 1956 was unfair by the Tamil community as the ordinary Tamils had the same problems with English that the ordinary Sinhalese had. The OLA addressed the problem the Sinhalese had without addressing the problem the Tamils had. This was remedied to the satisfaction of the Tamils two years later with the concurrence of the Tamil MPs in 1958. In 1960 the Tamil electorate underlined its acceptance of the solution negotiated by their leaders by voting these same leaders back into Parliament overwhelmingly. Today the Tamil Language has a higher status in Sri Lanka than in India. So why do Eelamist keep harping back on the past?

        I believe that until SL has the fiscal means to provide the same quality of education at least in every district, affirmative action is required to provide educational opportunity to the underprivileged. affirmative action as practised today, allowed the first student to enter University from Kilinochchi. If I am not mistaken the Lowest cut off marks in the Island is applied to Kilinochchi and rightly so. No one points out that students from these districts enter university at the cost of higher scoring students from other districts, a majority of whom are Sinhalese.

        I do not agree with “Exclusive” ethnic enclaves. The complete island of Lanka is home to all her citizens. Each and every citizen should be free to chose where she/he lives. The Govt. of Singapore, the only other country where Tamil language has a national status, ensures by its housing policy, that the ethnic distribution in that country corresponds to the national population ratio. No ethnic enclaves are allowed in Singapore. Do we hear any protests from Tamil Singaporeans?

        There fairest method of disbursing public funds towards any Govt. subsidised welfare project is by employing a per capita base. Any other method would mean that one community is being subsidised by another community. Look back on the Govt. welfare schemes. Was not the Minorities subsidised by the Majority?

        The difficult part is enacting Laws through the Legislature to guarantee the equal Fundamental Rights to all disregarding cast, creed, race and sex. This Lanka has achieved by writing it into Supreme Law which is inviolate.

        However it is said that though such laws exists on paper the reality of the minority is that it does not get translated at the grass roots level. It was the same in the USA. Laws existed but the ground reality was different until people like Rosa Parks and Brown decided to stand for their rights. High time that we had people like Rosa or Brown or closer to home, Gandhi within the Tamil Community who are prepared to stand up for their rights by peaceful means. It took people like Rosa to get Supreme Court rulings enforced on the ground. Lanka does not have Jim Crowe type laws on her statute books that Rosa had to contend with.

        A good example of what can be achieved through courts is the recent changes being made in buildings accessible to the public such as Banks, Govt. Buildings etc to accommodate wheel chair access which is a direct result of a citizen who decided to stand up for his rights before the Supreme Court.

      • SD

        Dear OTC,

        Thanks for the response and I am mostly in agreement with you.

        With regard to the four points.

        1. I can agree with that.
        2. The issue was whether Tamil people, did not exist prior to 700 years ago. It was not tied to the first question.
        3. Agreed. However, Yapa disagrees. Is that racist?
        4. Agreed.

        RE: “Unless the problem is defined what can the Sinhalese do?”

        I have always felt you are a fair-minded individual, and it’s possible to discuss these issues without dragging in religious or ethnic affiliations to cloud the issue, which is unfortunately not possible with Yapa.

        My point was only that – the extremists in the Tamil segment have been dis-empowered. The ones that remains are mostly imagined demons, or sufficiently powerless to be irrelevant, at least for the moment. Would you agree with that?

        In the process of disarming them though, we now have Sinhala extremists c?awling out of the woodwork – suggesting that all these problems were caused mainly by Tamils, asking for a rollback to Sinhala Only etc. etc. This is ahistoric and false. I take it you agree?

        Ergo, I believe that they must not have some faux ideological victory through our passivity and silence, and they must not be allowed to “rewrite” history as the Eelamists did, when a lot of this trouble was caused by people like that in the first place. I feel that there must be a “conversational intolerance” for racist notions, whether it comes from Sinhalese or Tamil people. We cannot stamp out racism, but we can at least make it mightily embarrassing to say things like that in public and get away with it. This I believe, is how most societies succeed in building up an intolerance for racism (at least – its open version) in the public sphere.

        In addition, the fact of the matter is that mistakes were made, on all sides, and as a majority community, we have a greater responsibility to ensure justice. That is after all, an inevitable burden of being a majority community.

        If not, then measures like 50-50 are not invalid to ensure democracy. This was David’s argument. If you read his argument carefully, I think there’s some sense there. Clearly, no one would want to advocate a measure like 50-50 if at all it can be helped. But if we do not want to advocate such measures, then it is up to us to ensure that all measures are taken in the first place.

        However, as you’ve pointed out, I too am in agreement that a lot of the issues that people complain about do not exist anymore, at least not on paper.

        I also tend to agree that the remaining issues can be corrected through a systematic, non-violent campaign, through education and the injection of sufficient resources. Interestingly enough, whenever I ask members of the diaspora to suggest concrete actions that they can take in this regard, they all suddenly find that they are “busy” and disappear – indicating that, except for the occasional rant on a forum, they have no real understanding of the Sri Lankan setup.

        Still, a conversation and consensus is a good starting point! And at least part of that conversation I think, should be on building up a strong intolerance to racism, racial privilege and other such medieval notions in our society.

  • Off the Cuff

    The Numbers Game

    It’s often said that Sri Lanka has an Ethnic Problem. There are several Ethnic groups domiciled in Lanka. Sinhalese 73.8%, Sri Lankan Tamil 13.9%, Sri Lankan Moors 7.2%, Indian Tamil 4.6%, Others Burgher, Sri Lankan Malay, and Veddah 0.5% (2001 census being the latest available on wiki).

    The Eelamists always talk about a TAMIL SPEAKING community when ever they speak of an Ethnic conflict in Lanka. But there is no Ethnic Group identified as “Tamil Speaking”.

    Currently the Muslim population does not espouse an ETHNIC grievance with the majority community themselves. They are the only non Tamil ethnic group that uses Tamil to communicate but they also use Sinhalese and English. All of them know Arabic.

    Why the deceit? Cannot make a case using the TRUTH ?

  • Off the Cuff

    Dear BalangodaMan,

    You have called yourself a Buddhist but strangely writes about a “Chosen People” ….. (your post of April 5, 2011 • 3:08 am )

    Chosen by who?
    A true Buddhist does not acknowledge a superior being capable of choosing one’s destiny.

    You have characterised Yapa as a Racist. This is very derogatory unless you are able to prove what you say.

    In the absence of a statement by Yapa about his beliefs it would be interesting to see your logical thought process that led you to make a definite statement about his beliefs.

    • BalangodaMan

      Oh come on OTC! The whole agenda of Mr Yapa is discrimination on the basis of race/ethnicity. The ‘chosen people’ refers to his argument that the Sinhalese are the ‘chosen’ guardians of an ancient religion and that Lanka is the ‘chosen’ land where it is to be preserved by these ‘chosen people’ as written in sacred ancient writing. I didn’t invent that. It was already Mr Yapa’s position. It already being argued against when I came into this discussion.

      The healthy modern (including Buddhist) mindset is that we do not care what race or ethnicity a person is when it comes to just about everything. The opposite of this is called ‘racism’.

      • Off the Cuff

        Dear BD,

        I wonder whether you noticed Yapa’s response to you on this same subject on April 5, 2011 • 7:09 am which I quote below

        “So called my belief about ‘the chosen people’ is just a belief of yours. You imagine and create beliefs for others. But here after I would like to cancel that contract I signed with you. Hereafter you don’t need to take pains to imagine and create beliefs for me. I will do it myself.
        Anyway, before moving further, please be kind enough to prove your allegations against me. Keep aside racism, at least it would be good for your decency.”

        In view of the above, your attempt at slithering away after making unsubstantiated derogatory remarks becomes a failure.

        The decent thing to do is to respond to Yapa with facts and figures detailing why you decided to call him a “RACIST”. You assumed responsibility for that derogatory name calling when you decided to repeat it yourself (your claim that you were repeating what others said is irrelevant even if that claim is true)

        My advice is not to get involved in ‘Name Calling’ unless you can SUBSTANTIATE what you say. Attacking someone just because other do is plain and simple Mob Mentality. You can of course take my advise or trash it.

        It appears that GV has evolved and has banned three letter obscene acronyms together with the more obvious four letter ones. Good work GV.

        You say “The healthy modern (including Buddhist) mindset is that we do not care what race or ethnicity a person is when it comes to just about everything. The opposite of this is called ‘racism’.”

        If you “know” your Buddhism you should have realised that the “Healthy Modern” outlook is a cornerstone of Buddhism and is as “Ancient” as Buddhism is. In fact the Buddhist outlook goes much deeper than just the “Race”. It does not recognise any difference at all.
        Cast, Race, Skin Colour, Gender, Rich, Poor, Powerful, Weak etc are not recognised. Past criminal or immoral activity is not recognised as seen by the acceptance of Prostitutes and Murderers who reformed, within the clergy.

        It looks like you have come to realise that Modern society is slowly but surely converting to the Healthy Ancient Buddhist Outlook.

    • BalangodaMan

      OTC, the dictionary definition of ‘racism’ is

      1. The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others.
      2. Discrimination or prejudice based on race.

      1. a belief that human races have distinctive characteristics that determine their respective cultures, usually involving the idea that one’s race is superior and has the right to control others.
      2. a belief in a policy of enforcing the asserted right of control. — racist, n., adj.

      a belief that human races have distinctive characteristics that determine their respective cultures, usually involving the idea that one’s race is superior and has the right to control others. — racist, adj.

      (picked up from around the net. For example here
      http://www.thefreedictionary.com/racism
      )

      Please show me how Mr Yapa’s position is different and I shall forever be your servant.

      • BalangodaMan

        OTC/Mr Yapa,
        Let’s make it easy. All Mr Yapa has to do is to state categorically that, in his opinion, Tamils are no different from the Sinhalese and the Sinhalese are not entitled to exercise control over them. If he does that then (according to the dictionary definition above) he is definitely NOT a racist.

      • Off the Cuff

        Dear Bman.

        The following is your definition

        1. The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others.

        The first part is a scientific fact and is no longer a belief ..race do account for differences in human character or ability …It is a matter of genetics. As much as sicknesses can be passed down through genes, ability, skin colour, curly hair, straight hair, blond hair, black hair, Physique, Slant eyes, Slit eyes, high cheek bones, cruel character, kind character etc can also be passed down through genes.

        The second part is of course rubbish and that is the part that is Racist.

        All your definitions are covered above.

        Dear SD,BM and Yapa,

        for some reason the reply link does not appear under your post in my computer. Hence I am replying you in this post as part of it will apply to BM too.

        Both of us have agreed on the yardstick used to measure an invader.

        Person’s who come from outside ‘invades’ the inhabitants’ land. After a suitable passage of time those invaders are no longer considered as invaders. The principal here is that the sins of the fathers should not be a burden on the children. The children then become naturalised and should no longer be considered as invaders.

        I see Yapa as a fearless person who will speak the truth as he sees it, no matter what. He provided his reasons as to why he thinks the Tamils do not have a history extending more than 7 centuries back in time. That statement is not Racist. He attempts to prove it with an argument. its up to his detractors to disprove what he says by breaking down his argument, name calling does not do that.

        Now getting back to our yardstick, there is a mention of a Sinhala kingdom in the Mahabaratha. Hence a Sinhala kingdom existed BEFORE it was written about in the Mahabaratha. The Mahabaratha is at least a 400 BC document. Hence if we use the yardstick already agreed to and if the Sri Lankan Tamil history is less ancient than 400BC, then the Tamils of that time were invaders in to Lanka. I am no historian and that’s why I did not provide an opinion and said its a question for Historians. Is there a parallel record of history written by a Tamil of the same vintage as the Mahawansa? Hope someone with knowledge points us in that direction.

        Yapa is a true Buddhist. To a true Buddhist the FUNDAMENTAL human rights are inviolate (this extends to the animal kingdom). He is also a man of science and hence his writing tends to switch in that direction. Unlike in Hinduism there are no untouchables in Buddhism. You may remember the Suntaharalingam Saga, where he prevented the lower cast Hindus from entering a Kovil to pray (this ended up in courts with Sun being fined). This was one reason that many Tamils embraced Buddhism. All were equal in Buddhism.

        Extremists lying dormant does not mean that they cannot be a threat in the future. Don’t forget the ISGA. Canada and UK has enough hardcore LTTE to cause trouble.

        Actually most problems were caused by the Tamil Bureaucracy of the Govt of the day not by the ordinary Tamils. They wanted to maintain the disproportionate status quo that they had during the British Raj. But that’s History and most of it has been already corrected.

        Language issue was solved and the Tamil electorate approved it (see my earlier post)

        University admissions have been solved though the solution is not the best.

        Of course it is our burden to look after the minority and ensure justice. But it is their burden to state clearly and unambiguously what their problems are.

        However David’s 50-50 argument does not hold water. It will never see the light of day as it can never be implemented. Please see my post here http://groundviews.org/2011/03/17/jaffna-and-the-vanni-today-the-reality-beneath-the-rhetoric/comment-page-1/#comment-29999

        There is more hidden under the 50-50 demand than what you observe on the surface.

        I agree with you that we must oppose Racism from whatever quarter it emanates but we should be careful to identify Racism and not haphazardly act on outward appearances.

        Yes conversation is essential towards bridge building. I have personally grown to respect several Tamils with whom I have had heated discussions initially but our mutual respect grew as the discussions progressed. I am sure I am not alone in this respect.

      • OTC, can you link to any accepted scientific study that confirms that characteristics of personality such as kindness and cruelty are genetically distinctive according to race.

      • yapa

        Dear DB;

        “OTC, can you link to any accepted scientific study that confirms that characteristics of personality such as kindness and cruelty are genetically distinctive according to race.”

        It is entirely a different topic that needs a separate discussion and has no much relevance to the present discussion. If what you meant was a discussion on RACE and ETHNICITY, yes!

        These two concepts are a gray area for many. Many think them as same as and talk in confusion. This is one of the main confusions that makes Sri Lankan history difficult to understand. If one differentiate them, Sri Lankan history can be understood with ease. I have discussed them a bit in DBSJ’s forum. If you would like, here is the link.

        http://dbsjeyaraj.com/dbsj/archives/1956

        Thanks!

      • Yapa, have you taken up dancing now that you’re not teaching? 😀 I asked OTC for the scientific proof he claims exists. Except for a bit of dancing, you’re unable to provide it.

      • yapa

        Dear DB;

        ““OTC, can you link to any accepted scientific study that confirms that characteristics of personality such as kindness and cruelty are genetically distinctive according to race.””

        Simple!

        Race has a genetic bearing. Genetics has an influence over a person’s character. Therefore, race can have an influence over a person’s character. One’s character invariably has its trademark on his Kindness and cruelty. Therefore, there exist a possibility of truth for the statement that “kindness and cruelty are genetically distinctive according to race”.

        (Is this what you wanted to deduce from Off the Cuff’s statement “..kind character etc can also be passed down through genes”.?, WHY NOT?)

        Marvel of Deductive Reasoning!

        (Or simple intuition would have told you the truth)

        Thanks!

      • Off the Cuff

        David and Wijayapala,

        I see that both of you want a scientific reference. But had you cared to observe that Dogs have different behavioral characteristics depending on their breed you would have realised that genetics do influence behavior.

        There are about 120 recognised breeds of dogs. The Rotweiler and the Ridgeback are considered Dangerous and some countries ban them as pets. Whatever the enviorenment they grow in, their predisposition is to attack.

        The Border Collie is a rather small (35-40 pounds), black or tan-and-white dog originally from Scotland. These dogs have a strong instinct to collect and contain objects, such as sheep, cattle, groups of children, or even inanimate objects like tennis balls.

        The Newfoundland is a large (120-150 pounds), black dog with a massive square head that displays a natural instinct for water rescue. these dogs will jump from a boat or swim long distances to reach drowning victims. Their oily coat and webbed toes are ideal for swimming.

        When presented for the first time with a water bowl, a Newfoundland puppy will step in the water; a Border Collie puppy only uses the bowl for drinking. While it is not surprising that the physical traits of dog breeds are inherited, it is quite clear that behavioral traits must also be influenced by inheritance.

        The Gurka Tribe is renowned as warriors.

        Genetic and Environmental Influences on
        Behavioral Disinhibition
        Susan E. Young, Michael C. Stallings, Robin P. Corley, Kenneth S. Krauter, and John K. Hewitt
        Institute for Behavioral Genetics, University of Colorado, Boulder, Colorado
        Addiction Research and Treatment Services, Department of Psychiatry, University of Colorado Health Sciences
        Center, Denver, Colorado
        Department of Molecular, Cellular, and Developmental Biology, University of Colorado, Boulder, Colorado

        Extensive data from twin and adoption studies also
        confirm the importance of genetic factors in explaining
        individual differences in personality [Bouchard, 1994;
        Eaves et al., 1989; Loehlin, 1992; Pedersen et al.,
        1988]. Generally, the findings demonstrate that there
        are substantial genetic influences on almost all personality traits,
        accounting for between 40% and 60% of the phenotypic trait variance; the influence of shared environmental influences are minimal. Twin studies of NS have estimated the broad sense heritability of NS between 0.30 and 0.40 [Heath et al., 1994; Stallings et al., 1996], suggesting that genetic factors explain a
        substantial proportion of the variance in this personality
        dimension.

        Caitlin M. Jones, Rochester Institute of Technology – Therefore it seems obvious to reach the conclusion that an individual’s antisocial or criminal behavior can be the result of both their genetic background and the environment in which they were raised.

        Jeffrey C. Tatar, Rochester Institute of Technology
        Not only do adoption studies support a genetic basis for personality disorders that are shown to have a relation to criminality, but twin studies as well.

        Good Luck

      • Yapa, I asked OTC to provide the accepted scientific proof he claims exists; not for you to paraphrase him. Clearly, naither of you have any such proof 😀 Is this the way you taught physics and applied maths? Good god, those poor students!

      • SD

        Dear Yapa,

        RE: “Do you now have any doubt that Tamils have a history of less than 700 years of this country?”

        After examining your arguments Yapa, I must confess that the “balance of probability” lies in the direction of your views being utter BS. Not only are your argument inconsistent, but you also display a clear disinterest in the truth, which is made all the more obvious by the hopeful and tentative submission of any ludicrous idea that chances across your mind, any nonsense at all to validate your “theory”. The bias in your thinking, in favour of realizing the “manifest destiny” of the Sinhalese, should be unmistakable to everyone except, apparently, you.

        Mind you Yapa, it is necessary to point out that bias, and doing so is not an ad-hominem attack, in case you get needlessly side-tracked. One cannot have a rational conversation with someone whose only interest is in an “agenda”. I hope that’s a reasonable observation?

        I asked you whether you were certain whether any other scholars other than Indrapala claimed that no Tamils existed in Sri Lanka before 700 years ago. You gave me a list of random links off the internet, off relatively unknown people, all in order to support your view. Yapa, this is not the way serious scholarship is done. You don’t just find views that push your agenda and ignore views to the contrary, especially not when making such grand claims. That’s highlighted even more when you ignore Indrapala’s subsequent works saying “his mind was taken over by Eelamists”. Possible. But has Wijayapala’s mind been take over by Eelamists too? How come only people who disagree with you have their minds taken over? What is to stop anyone from saying your mind has been taken over by a juvenile belief in everything in the Mahavamsa?

        Here’s what Prof. K.M. De Silva has to say about Tamil presence in Sri Lanka.

        “The long — fifteen-year — campaign waged by Dutthagamani against Elara, which culminated in a duel fought in accordance with ksatriya rules of chivalry and the latter’s death, is dramatised as the central theme of the later chapters of the Mahavamsa as an epoch-making confrontation between Sinhalese and Tamils, and extolled as a holy war fought in the interests of Buddhism. Dutthagamani’s triumph was nothing less than the consummation of the island’s manifest destiny, its historic role as the bulwark of Buddhism: the Southern kingdom ruled by the Sinhalese Buddhist had prevailed over the northern kingdom ruled by a Dravidian usurper who, despite all his admirable qualities as a man and ruler, was nevertheless a man of ‘false’ beliefs.

        The Mahavamsa’s account of these events glosses over facts which were inconvenient to its prime consideration of immortalising the honour and glory attaching to Duththagamani. Kavantissa’s shrewed statecraft, which laid the foundations for his son’s success, received scant attention. The Mahavamsa depicts Elara as the ruler of the whole of the northern plain and Duththagamani’s family as kings of the whole of Rohana ever since Mahanaga established himself in Magama; this was not historically accurate, for Elara was not the ruler of a united northern kingdom, nor were Duththagamani’s forbears kings of the whole of Rohana. Besides, the facile equating of the Sinhalese with Buddhist for this period is not borne out by the facts, for not all Sinhalese were Buddhists, while on the other hand, there were many Tamil Buddhists. There were in fact, large reserves of support for Elara among the Sinhalese….

        De Silva goes onto say that, unlike today, there was a live and let live policy amongst ethnic groups, and that Sri Lanka was multi-ethnic throughout its history. This same view is confirmed by more recent scholars such as Pradeep Jeganathan.

        Now, ignoring such views from established scholars, and in brave defiance of common-sense, you go onto speculate on absurdities like how Elara’s soldiers dropped their sarongs and fled to Tamil Nadu after their shameful defeat, citing that the British had exited in a similar fashion, leaving behind a non-existent Burgher community which are but figments of our imagination.

        I’m sorry Yapa. All this goes to show how disinterested you are in the facts. Anyone who reads the Mahavamsa without compensating for the way it was coloured by the deepest desires of the Buddhist monks who wrote it, is no less a buffoon that the individual who reads the Bible thinking it is the inerrant word of God.

        Normally, I would consider such quixotic jousts with imagined demons, ranging from decadent western conspirators to space aliens, somewhat humorous but nonetheless, harmless. But amplified a thousand fold, and backed by frothing mobs, ideas such as yours are a dangerous retrograde force, pulling the Sinhalese back to the feudal ages while obstructing justice and dignity for our fellow citizens. I see no reason to consider you any less of a threat to Sri Lanka than the Eelamist.

        That’s my frank view on your theory.

      • yapa

        Dear DB;

        “Yapa, have you taken up dancing now that you’re not teaching? 😀 I asked OTC for the scientific proof he claims exists. Except for a bit of dancing, you’re unable to provide it.”

        Are you again asking for Scientific proof for “Socrates is a mortal”?

        Do you think it is necessary? Just put your mind to it leisurely lying in your comfortable bed after having a small shot in the evening.

        For some statements, the statement itself is a proof.

        Do you feel like, Yanne koheda, Malle pol? It is not my fault. Ma atha waradha naetha.

        Thanks, dear DB!

      • yapa

        Dear SD:

        “You gave me a list of random links off the internet, off relatively unknown people, all in order to support your view. Yapa, this is not the way serious scholarship is done. You don’t just find views that push your agenda and ignore views to the contrary, especially not when making such grand claims.”

        Ha! Ha!!, Unbiased knowledgeable scholar who did not know where Dutugemunu’s famous statement to Viharamahadevi “uthurin Hadi Demalu…” was mentioned and now giving a comprehensive conclusion on Sri lankan history, just citing easily traceable on line kinks.

        What sort of treachery and dishonesty? This scholars whole conclusion was bases on just three links, which he had never read. You never had any significant knowledge of Sr Lankan History,until a few days back now you have suddenly become the authority over rule my facts and arguments which has been presented after a considerable study and comparison of facts. Now you are acting like the Chief Justice for History and over rule every thing that is scholarly?

        Just wait, your audacity is going to pay soon, competency-less, knowledge-less, scholar. Just word battle is not sufficient to cover up your nude. Just wait a bit, you are going to pay for your “Nuhugune”.

        Thanks!

      • SD

        Dear Yapa,

        RE: “You never had any significant knowledge of Sr Lankan History,until a few days back now you have suddenly become the authority over rule my facts and arguments which has been presented after a considerable study and comparison of facts.”

        You never did grasp the concept of burden of proof did you? I’m not making a positive assertion here. It’s up to you to prove that Tamils did not exist in Sri Lanka before 700 years ago. All I have to do, it to show that your argumentation is inconsistent, or that it’s biased and ignores evidence, rendering your argument invalid or at best, suspect.

        For you to make a believable case, you have to respect the evidence, and jettison the Sinhala-Buddhist bias as best as you can. I have never seen a demonstration of such a capability from you, although hope springs eternal in the human breast.

        Last but not least, I never claimed to be a historian, and my knowledge of history could use a lot more work, which is why I often defer to others on these matters. That’s why I don’t make assertions like – Tamils existed in Sri Lanka or Tamils did not exist in Sri Lanka. I’m happy to be swayed either ways based on convincing evidence. You have not provided any.

        Finally, remember Yapa, that your efforts are largely wasted, if you think that proving “no Tamils existed in Sri Lanka” will somehow prove that the Sinhalese-Buddhists deserve a privileged position. No such claims of entitlement are possible in a modern society and notions of “chose people” have already been banished from the 21st century conversation. It’s interesting to understand history so we can understand why we are the way we are, but it has no bearing on where we must get to – as just and fair a society as possible.

        Sinhala-Buddhist domination or hegemony should not and cannot feature in such a society and your primitive notion of a Dhamma-dweepa is little more than the ethno-religious rhetoric of centuries past making yet another appearance in suitably disguised piety.

      • LOl, OTC, that’s quite a pathetic attempt. Merely typing the sentence “Gurkhas are reknowned as warriors” above a paragraph that talks about genetic behavioural patterns isn’t scientific proof. We all know that character traits are genetically passed on within families, so that a musical parent might have a musical child and so forth. There is no argument about that. However, your quoted source makes no reference to personality traits being genetically distinctive to certain races, which was YOUR claim. Try again. 😀

        The skills of the Gurkhas as warriors is mostly a legend of the British and Indian armies and has no basis in geneticism. Gurkhas are not an ethnic group at all, but in fact a tribe or people made up of several ethnic groups. They have fought well at times and badly at times, and their legend is more a military myth than any reality.

        Nevertheless, I look forward to your quoting scientific proof of personality traits within races. If not, we have to take it that there is none.

      • yapa

        Dear SD:

        “You never did grasp the concept of burden of proof did you? I’m not making a positive assertion here. It’s up to you to prove that Tamils did not exist in Sri Lanka before 700 years ago. All I have to do, it to show that your argumentation is inconsistent, or that it’s biased and ignores evidence, rendering your argument invalid or at best,suspect.”

        Don’t you think burden of rejecting my arguments are on you? Don’t you have to grasp it as well? On what evidence did you provide to reject my arguments?

        Do you think the burden lifts itself in the case of you? You think that principle does not apply to you, why?

        “For you to make a believable case, you have to respect the evidence, and jettison the Sinhala-Buddhist bias as best as you can. I have never seen a demonstration of such a capability from you, although hope springs eternal in the human breast.”

        In rejecting something too anybody has to respect evidence, you think not? Tell me have you provided 1/100th of evidence to reject my case, I provided in support of may case. Are you honest in saying I have not provided evidence? Your pronouncement cannot vanish evidence I provided. Just think this is not your pre-assumed need to reject what I say, in prejudice?

        “Last but not least, I never claimed to be a historian, and my knowledge of history could use a lot more work, which is why I often defer to others on these matters.”

        Then why did you undertake things you don’t know? You admit that you rejected my propositions without sufficient knowledge about them?

        “That’s why I don’t make assertions like – Tamils existed in Sri Lanka or Tamils did not exist in Sri Lanka. I’m happy to be swayed either ways based on convincing evidence. You have not provided any.”

        You make negative assertions, are they not assertions? What does rejection of the statement “Tamils did not exist in Sri Lanka” says? It clearly asserts,”Tamils existed in Sri Lanka”, Are you going to say this is not an assertion?

        Are you dishonest or ignorant?

        “Finally, remember Yapa, that your efforts are largely wasted, if you think that proving “no Tamils existed in Sri Lanka” will somehow prove that the Sinhalese-Buddhists deserve a privileged position. No such claims of entitlement are possible in a modern society and notions of “chose people” have already been banished from the 21st century conversation.”

        This is a case of “one feather becoming seven crows” as Off the Cuff has said. You interpret as you wish and thrashing a straw man. I have not talked of any “chosen people”, it was another interpretation of your friend Bman. Further, can you tell where and by whom “notions of “chose people” have already been banished from the 21st century conversation”, I am interested to know that new piece of information (assertion)though it is not relevant that much to me. Please do that favour to me explaining this if it is not pure speculation of yours.

        “It’s interesting to understand history so we can understand why we are the way we are, but it has no bearing on where we must get to – as just and fair a society as possible.”

        Can you justify this “assertion” please?

        “Sinhala-Buddhist domination or hegemony should not and cannot feature in such a society and your primitive notion of a Dhamma-dweepa is little more than the ethno-religious rhetoric of centuries past making yet another appearance in suitably disguised piety.”

        All these again are your fabrications for your advantage only. Have I ever said so? These are just the results of your fallacious argumentation!, your biased information processing!! You have got biased conclusions.

        Crooked man’s dancing is crooked!

        Thanks!

  • yapa

    Dear SD;

    Do you now have any doubt that Tamils have a history of less than 700 years of this country?

    Thanks!

  • yapa

    I don’t need anybody’s certification to know that I am not a racist. I really know that many even don’t know that they are racists in their “conscious-less” actions though they talk of “every fair and justifiable thing of the world.

    I am not afraid of the allegations of convenient lip service providers.

    Who cares?

    Thanks!

    • BalangodaMan

      Mr Yapa, does that mean you reject the dictionary definition of ‘racist’ that I have provided? Or you are saying that it is OK because most people are ‘racists’ by that definition?

  • wijayapala

    Dear OTC & yapa,

    I read through the messages in this thread and could not determine the need to claim that the Tamils do not have a history in Sri Lanka over 700 years. The wording of this claim is vague to the point of uselessness, hence the question from SD how Elara could have existed if there had been no Tamils in Sri Lanka back then. The most accurate statement would be that we lack evidence for the Jaffna kingdom beyond 700 years. Even thus, it is still not clear what the relevance is.

    Disproving the Eelamists’ claim is fairly easy as there is simply no evidence of a historical “Tamil Eelam” identified by the lack of Sinhalese or Sinhala culture. That is why I continue to be baffled when Sinhalese like Dr. Nalin de Silva say things such as the Tamils have no history at all before the Europeans came. The false nature of such claims actually helps the Eelamists as they could correctly argue that we are excluding the Tamils from the heritage of the island.

    Regardless of the antiquity of the Jaffna kingdom, the fact remains that the Tamils have influenced Sinhala/Sri Lankan culture for centuries, to the point that it would be difficult if not impossible to point to a “pure” Sinhala culture. Aspects of the Sinhala language and even grammar have been affected by Tamil. Mahayana Buddhism came to Sri Lanka via Tamil Nadu and that is why we worship Buddha statues and have Buddhapujas.

    The Mahabaratha is at least a 400 BC document.

    Wrong- the earliest parts of the Mahabharata trace back that far, most probably the essence of the story not details such as the brief mention of Sinhala kingdom. It is likely that this mention was added much later, between the time of Christ and 400 CE when Indian civilisation gained a greater awareness of its regional geography.

    This was one reason that many Tamils embraced Buddhism. All were equal in Buddhism.

    This raises an important question- how come Tamils today, regardless of caste are not embracing Buddhism? Is it possible, conceivable that we (Sinhala Buddhists) have had something to do with this?

    Extremists lying dormant does not mean that they cannot be a threat in the future. Don’t forget the ISGA. Canada and UK has enough hardcore LTTE to cause trouble.

    I fail to see how shouting that Tamils have no history will discourage Tamil extremists from attacking Sri Lanka. And regarding the ISGA, it most certainly can be forgotten because the LTTE is dead. Uncle Gotabhaya is busy destroying the LTTE cemeteries and any other traces so that future generations will not remember it.

    • yapa

      Dear wijayapala;

      “I read through the messages in this thread and could not determine the need to claim that the Tamils do not have a history in Sri Lanka over 700 years. The wording of this claim is vague to the point of uselessness, hence the question from SD how Elara could have existed if there had been no Tamils in Sri Lanka back then. The most accurate statement would be that we lack evidence for the Jaffna kingdom beyond 700 years. Even thus, it is still not clear what the relevance is.”

      Exactly. (Except for the last sentence.)

      We were not talking in absolute terms. If you see how this dialogue was started between SD and I, you will realize that we were talking on the basis of “Balance of Probability” not on the basis of “Beyond reasonable doubt”

      http://groundviews.org/2011/03/18/jaffna-moments-of-nostalgia/comment-page-1/#comment-29699

      http://groundviews.org/2011/03/18/jaffna-moments-of-nostalgia/comment-page-1/#comment-29700

      http://groundviews.org/2011/03/18/jaffna-moments-of-nostalgia/comment-page-1/#comment-29702

      Relevance is the fundamental basis of Tamil Eelam and the other undue demands of the Tamils is the distorted history of Tamils. On the basis of that false history. Refuting that false history and its false ideology is removing its root.

      “Disproving the Eelamists’ claim is fairly easy as there is simply no evidence of a historical “Tamil Eelam” identified by the lack of Sinhalese or Sinhala culture. That is why I continue to be baffled when Sinhalese like Dr. Nalin de Silva say things such as the Tamils have no history at all before the Europeans came. The false nature of such claims actually helps the Eelamists as they could correctly argue that we are excluding the Tamils from the heritage of the island.”

      If Dr. Nalinda Silvas claim is “the Tamils have no history at all before the Europeans came”, then it could be wrong. But my claim is not wrong. Balance of Probability is towards my theory.

      Do you say, NO?

      “Regardless of the antiquity of the Jaffna kingdom, the fact remains that the Tamils have influenced Sinhala/Sri Lankan culture for centuries, to the point that it would be difficult if not impossible to point to a “pure” Sinhala culture. Aspects of the Sinhala language and even grammar have been affected by Tamil. Mahayana Buddhism came to Sri Lanka via Tamil Nadu and that is why we worship Buddha statues and have Buddhapujas.”

      No problem for an agreement.

      ““The Mahabaratha is at least a 400 BC document.”

      Wrong- the earliest parts of the Mahabharata trace back that far, most probably the essence of the story not details such as the brief mention of Sinhala kingdom. It is likely that this mention was added much later, between the time of Christ and 400 CE when Indian civilisation gained a greater awareness of its regional geography.”

      I think your statement “It is likely that this mention was added much later, between the time of Christ and 400 CE when Indian civilisation gained a greater awareness of its regional geography” is speculation. Do you have stronger evidence than Off the Cuff to say this?

      ““This was one reason that many Tamils embraced Buddhism. All were equal in Buddhism.”

      This raises an important question- how come Tamils today, regardless of caste are not embracing Buddhism? Is it possible, conceivable that we (Sinhala Buddhists) have had something to do with this?”

      Are you suggesting to make plans and strategies to convert them to Buddhism? Are you suggesting to violate their human right to have their freedom for their own faith?

      ““Extremists lying dormant does not mean that they cannot be a threat in the future. Don’t forget the ISGA. Canada and UK has enough hardcore LTTE to cause trouble.”

      I fail to see how shouting that Tamils have no history will discourage Tamil extremists from attacking Sri Lanka. And regarding the ISGA, it most certainly can be forgotten because the LTTE is dead. Uncle Gotabhaya is busy destroying the LTTE cemeteries and any other traces so that future generations will not remember it.”

      I think now you must have understood the answer for your doubt in the first sentence. They will have no basis to justify their attacks.

      Rest is fine!

      Thanks!

    • Off the Cuff

      Hi Wijayapala,

      Better read my first reply to SD before you start asking questions here is an extract.

      2. Probably so and probably not so but it may be irrelevant to the question of invaders. That’s a question for the Historians. But if you intend to tie it up with the first question it would be necessary to keep in mind that the Mahabaratha mentions a Sinhala Kingdom in book 1, Chapter 177. I do not know how old Mahabaratha Book 1 Chapter 177 is but the Wiki states thus “….The earliest parts of the text are not appreciably older than around 400 BCE”. The fact that a Sinhala Kingdom is mentioned in the Mahabaratha proves that the Sinhala Kingdom is older than the time it was written about in the book. The Mahabaratha pre-dates the Ramayanaya.

      I have made my possition very clear so dont confuse it with anything else.

      You have got your wires crossed I am afraid.

      • Off the Cuff

        Hi Wijayapala,

        Do you agree that you have misinterpreted my post when you wrote yours?

  • wijayapala

    The first part is a scientific fact and is no longer a belief ..race do account for differences in human character or ability …It is a matter of genetics.

    Wow, I missed this one.

    Here’s a question I am dreading to ask: if this is actually true, then how does the Sinhala “race” rate?

    • yapa

      Dear wijayapala;

      ““The first part is a scientific fact and is no longer a belief ..race do account for differences in human character or ability …It is a matter of genetics.”

      Wow, I missed this one.

      “Here’s a question I am dreading to ask: if this is actually true, then how does the Sinhala “race” rate?”
      ………………

      Here again you have made a fundamental error in your cognitive process, which is really an epidemic in BalangodaMan’s thinking. However, with that question, you have done me a favour giving me an opportunity to disclose another very frequent type of fallacious thinking, many use to arrive at wrong conclusions.

      Now we will look at what you have quoted from off the cuff

      “The first part is a scientific fact and is no longer a belief ..race do account for differences in human character or ability …It is a matter of genetics.”

      Is there anything untrue in this statement, grammatically, in terms of its contents (scientifically) or what ever a way you can propose? There is no an iota of error or mistake in this statement.

      He further explains and justifies his statement thus:

      “As much as sicknesses can be passed down through genes, ability, skin colour, curly hair, straight hair, blond hair, black hair, Physique, Slant eyes, Slit eyes, high cheek bones, cruel character, kind character etc can also be passed down through genes.”

      Do you say his statement or explanation is wrong?

      I am 100% sure they are accurate to the point.

      (This must be that DB was questioned saying ““OTC, can you link to any accepted scientific study that confirms that characteristics of personality such as kindness and cruelty are genetically distinctive according to race.”, but he is wrong and Off the Cuff is perfect in this instance too. If he wants I will touch upon the query.)

      Dear wijayapala, don’t you accept genetics make differences in human character and ability? Do you have any reservations?

      For a moment we will pay our attention to another statement that has a relevance to Off the Cuff’s statement.

      This is what BalangodaMan says,

      “Tamils are no different from the Sinhalese and the Sinhalese are not entitled to exercise control over them.”

      Do you accept first part of his statement “Tamils are no different from the Sinhalese” is scientifically or Social Scientifically correct?

      Which fool does not understand that there are differences between Sinhalese and Tamils, though there are obviously similarities?

      Similarities do not rule out the possibility of having differences.

      Some are blind to simple things, but try to teach lessons to others!

      Now the rest of BalangodaMan’s statement and your question are not much different and I would address both of them together.

      Your question: “Sinhala “race” rate”.

      BalangodaMan’s second part of the statement: “Sinhalese are not entitled to exercise control over them.”

      Both of you are talking about a hierarchy of the “Sinhala race”, (I think I am not mistaken here.) when Off the Cuff says that genetics makes differences …

      Why are you asking (demandind?, Bman) for a hierarchy when he says that there are differences?

      Do you think “hierarchy” is an essential consequence/character of “differences”? Do you think hierarchy necessarily and naturally follows differences?

      Can’t there be differences without a hierarchy?

      Just because there could be a hierarchy, are we to reject differences, and say there are no differences?

      If we say there are no differences, then will there really not be differences?

      Is there a possibility for you to ask from someone for hierarchy, because he said there are differences?

      Can you or Bman question off the Cuff for “Sinhala “race” rate”, or call explanation from him as “Sinhalese are not entitled to exercise control over them”?

      Just because you believe that there cannot be a hierarchy among races, does it also imply there cannot be differences?

      If off the Cuff’s reply to your queries is “there is no rate” or “Sinhalese are not entitled to exercise control over them”, do you say the differences he attributed to genetics do not exist in human character or ability?

      ………………

      This is a fundamental error in many people’s thinking processes. Many inclined to think that “differences” naturally implies a “hierarchy” or hierarchy is a natural consequence of differences. It is a fallacy, which people often fail to see. On the basis of the wrong conclusions they arrived at and which they think as right, they tend to vehemently question others. It has been a habit of Bman and you without thinking much, you also have fallen into his category, may be once and for all.

      Dear wijayapala;

      Differences are an “objective thing” while hierarchy is “subjective”.

      Consider about “Kalu Menika” and Rathu Menika” (Dark lady and fair lady) case.

      No fool will say Kalu Menika is not different from Rathu Menika. That difference really exists and it is an objective reality.

      But one local lad would say “Kalu Menika” is more beautiful and another lad from the same area will disagree. He would say Rathu Menika is more beautiful.

      Beauty is a subjective thing, that may depend on individual preferences, however, the difference is objective and no individual can deny those beauties have no differences!

      Thanks!

      • yapa

        BalngodaMan tried to skin me alive once, for not accepting Tamils and Sinhalese are similar,if my memory is correct. I never wanted to accept it despite his murderous allegations about my acceptance of that simple truth!

        He is trying to do it again!, Who cares?

        Thanks!

      • yapa

        Correction……

        “…. no individual can deny those beauties have no differences!”

        should be corrected as

        “…. no individual can deny those beauties have differences!”

        Thanks!

      • yapa

        Dear wijayapala;

        I think you very well know that when Arahath Mainda Thero met king Devanampiya Tissa at Ambastala, he asked several questions from the king to check his “IQ” (Intelligence Quotient).

        “What is the name of this tree?” King answered “This is a mango tree, sir”
        “Are there other mango trees other than this mango tree”
        “Yes. There are many other mango trees, sir”
        “Are there other trees beside this mango tree and other mango trees”
        “Yes… There are many other trees that are not mango trees, beside this mango tree and other mango trees, sir”
        “Are there other trees that are not mango trees and other mango trees”
        “Yes…That is this mango tree, sir”

        “Do you have relatives?”
        “Yes .. I have many relatives”
        “Are there people who are not your relatives?”
        “Yes… There are many people who are not my relatives”
        “Are there people other than your relatives and non relatives?” “Yes…That would be me, sir”
        “Good… You are very intelligent and ready to listen to Buddha Dharma”

        By the dialogue given above the Thero understood that the king was intelligent enough to understand the deep doctrine of the Buddha.

        Dear wijayapala; Dhamma (Buddha’s doctrine)is for the understanding of “wise men”, not for unwise. We need some level intelligence to understand it.Same way some of the subject areas like presently we are discussing demands some minimum level of intelligence. That is why people like BalangodaMan should choose himself to be away from such serious discussions. He has been amply proving and exhibiting this fact.

        Thanks!

      • yapa

        Dear SD:

        “Sorry Yapa, I admit my mistake 🙂 I think you’re a pretty ok guy, but I still maintain, your ideas are a dangerous threat to Sri Lanka, because they assert a position of privilege for Buddhists, which creates unnecessary problems because no one wants to be “second-class”.”

        You have mis-understood my conception. Shall I explain it in details? Then you will never say these things any more, definitely you will apologize to me.

        You like to listen to me patiently?

        Thanks!

      • yapa

        Dear SD:

        your main problem SD, is that your lack of knowledge of Patichcha Samuppada. You don’t know to identify the real causes properly and relate them to the effect.

        I will show you with examples. Give a bit time for my sermon.

        Thanks!

    • Off the Cuff

      Wijayapala, David, SD, Yapa and Bman

      I have posted a few scientific references in the post mentioned below. For some reason the possition is not within the latest posts but way up.
      Please check the link

      Now I hope David will post an extract of a doccument detailing a working 50-50 democracy.

      April 10, 2011 • 12:08 am
      http://groundviews.org/2011/03/18/jaffna-moments-of-nostalgia/comment-page-1/#comment-30085

      BTW Yapa, Glad to see that you are presenting your argument realy well. Keep it up.

      • yapa

        Dear Off the Cuff;

        “BTW Yapa, Glad to see that you are presenting your argument really well. Keep it up.”

        If there is any improvement in my writing here I must confess, for most of them, I am in debt to you. You are the person who encouraged me from the very beginning when I started writing in the blog.

        Thank you again!

      • yapa

        Dear Off the Cuff;

        I don’t think it is necessary to provide scientific facts or even just simple evidence to back an obvious. No man with some common sense needs any fact to understand the truth in what you said.

        People must give a chance to their intuition and common sense to understand things once in a while. It would give a chance to awaken their “Emotional Intelligence” and “Spiritual Intelligence”.

        Not only brain thinks, heart also thinks!

        Thanks!

      • OTC, your first comment in this thread is on 5th April, and since then you have provided no such scientific evidence to prove that character traits such as kindness or cruelty are prevailent in some races over others. Your friend Yapa has made a fool of himself by giving a dancing demonstration. Are you going to do the same? 😀 Why not admit you were talking through your backside and we’ll leave it at that.

      • Off the Cuff

        To ALL Interested GV Readers,

        Scientific Research – Genetics – Behavioural Characteristics

        Please see my post dated April 10, 2011 • 12:08 am
        http://groundviews.org/2011/03/18/jaffna-moments-of-nostalgia/comment-page-1/#comment-30085

        for references and a short explanatory note on the subject.

        David the spit has finally fallen and Bigots (your word not mine) stand naked. I hope at least you know how to get at the post by clicking the URL provided. Please note the date and time of my post giving scientific reference. it pre-dates your backside attack by over 15 hours. I find it quite “Humorous” Would you agree David?

        [Edited out]

      • yapa

        Dear Off the Cuff/DB;

        The problem is “Bookworm Syndrome”, inability to understand simple things without big books, big concepts and big jargon.

        I even did not try the web to find scientific evidence purposely as it is unnecessary and redundant. DB was adornment about his stance, that Scientific evidence is the only way to prove something, despite our explanations. He rejected/forgot the ability of arguments/logic to prove some thing almost perfectly, which is an impossibility for scientific evidence. Scientific evidence is used in Inductive Reasoning, which had never been accepted as a true knowledge generation method before Francis Bacon. He is the person who recommended it for Science and Galileo was the first Scientist to use it in scientific investigations. Before them Deductive Reasoning or Deductive Logic was the tool of knowledge generation. Still the credibility of Scientific “proofs” are very much less compared to logical reasoning, or inductive reasoning.

        Can you remember, BalangodaMan, sujewa and some other people (???)too adornment in demanding scientific proofs for “karma”, “rebirth” and “nirvana”? Same lack of knowledge is repeating here.

        However, it is good you provided scientific evidence to facilitate the people who needs them to understand.

        There is no other way, one must learn or give a chance to intuition and get an injection for “Bookworm Syndrome”.

        Dear DB, I think you are in the process of reading this in addition to the Off the Cuff’s post.

        “Kivva nahana guru ihala giyoth ihala, pahala giyoth pahala”.

        You must be fluent in Sinhala at least the way I am fluent in English no? Thanks DB.

        Thanks!

      • yapa

        Correction…..,

        ….are very much less compared to logical reasoning, or inductive reasoning.

        Here the word “inductive” must be replaced with “deductive”.

        Thanks!

  • yapa

    Dear SD;

    I would like to know your position about the Tamil history of Sri Lanka? On the basis of “Balance of Probability” what is your opinion? Is it more probable they lived here for over 700 years or they have a history less than that?

    Thanks!

  • yapa

    Some people cannot construct a simple statement correctly, but try to teach the whole world.

    Please see the following statement of this omniscient man.

    “Tamils are no different from the Sinhalese and the Sinhalese are not entitled to exercise control over them”

    This total statement is a fallacy and does not have meaning of any value. The statement has no logical construct and no evidence can support the statement.

    just personal likings/inclinations alone do not generate true statements.

    This is only a creation of unrefined/disorderly mind.

    Thanks!

    • yapa

      Dear SD;

      “I accept your explanation about the Mahavamsa and the “chanda” business, as long as you aren’t going to go on to claim that Tamils in general are “chanda”. If you never implied the latter claim, then my apologies, I was indeed attacking a strawman.”

      Very good, Excellent! how about your “Argument from Authority” on my posts of Tamil history? Any review possible as well?

      “If you never implied the latter claim, then my apologies, I was indeed attacking a strawman.”

      I never implied it. Why should I insult humanity? I never do it, it is an insulation to my self, do you think I would do it?

      However, if you were implying the latter claim, then I would require some evidence, just as I would require evidence before someone called the Sinhalese “stupid” or the blacks “primitive” because those are derogatory, and potentially harmful claims.

      “The rest of your posts are mostly irrelevant, based on a reluctance or inability to comprehend what I very clearly laid out earlier.”

      It is not the truth. Your inability understand them due to your unsound logic, lack of knowledge on the particular subject and your high mind to rely on Argument from Authority made you to jump into hasty subjective judgments that made you understand my ideas incorrectly. That is not my fault.

      However, If you explain how my posts are irrelevant, with some evidence I would be happy. Just proclamations don’t refute or counter anything. I think you know the meaning of rationality.

      “The height of that misunderstanding is displayed by: “You make negative assertions, are they not assertions? What does rejection of the statement “Tamils did not exist in Sri Lanka” says? It clearly asserts,”Tamils existed in Sri Lanka”, Are you going to say this is not an assertion?”</i?"

      Do you say they are not assertion? Your dislike to attribute yourself to negative qualities does not ensure you don't do it. Really you did the very fault while leveling the same allegation against me.

      "Re-read if you misunderstood. You need to raise your game."

      I think you have to do it, more than I.

      "RE: ““It’s interesting to understand history so we can understand why we are the way we are, but it has no bearing on where we must get to – as just and fair a society as possible.””

      And no Yapa, I can’t be wasting my time justifying things that should be patently obvious to people in the 21st century. You need to get up to speed with that conversation. If you have some ground breaking analysis, then state it, and perhaps we can discuss. Otherwise, your question is the nonsensical equivalent of asking me to justify why we need morals."

      Do you say there are "obvious", just because they belong to 21st century. That idea itself is a proof that those "obvious" do not stand the "time test". Just as 21st century fades away they have to become outdated, "obviously", Do you understand my logic?

      You really need to raise your game 🙂

      "Same to you for the New Year, Ha! Ha!!

      Thanks!

      • SD

        Dear Yapa,

        RE: “Do you say they are not assertion?”

        LOL, that’s the point Yapa. I’m not asserting either of those positions. You are! You must justify your position, the burden of proof is with you, not me. I have merely pointed out
        a. Your bias
        b. Different positions held by historians
        c. The common sense question of how Elara’s soldiers and other migrants magically disappeared

        That only serves to highlight how fragile your argument is. I myself am (craftily perhaps) not advocating a particular position. And unfortunately for you Yapa, mainly because of points C and B, the balance of probability lies with Tamils having lived in Sri Lanka throughout.

        The comprehension problem clearly lies with you 🙂

        Secondly, I repeat, most of your effort is wasted, because Tamil presence or absence till 700 years ago is irrelevant to the issue of Sinhala-Buddhists being entitled to special privileges. Before you convince me, try convincing OTC or Wijayapala. They are religious Sinhala-Buddhists, whereas I’m only a cultural Sinhala-Buddhist.

      • SD

        RE: “I never implied it. Why should I insult humanity? I never do it, it is an insulation to my self, do you think I would do it?”

        Sorry Yapa, I admit my mistake 🙂 I think you’re a pretty ok guy, but I still maintain, your ideas are a dangerous threat to Sri Lanka, because they assert a position of privilege for Buddhists, which creates unnecessary problems because no one wants to be “second-class”.

      • yapa

        Dear SD;

        “RE: “Do you say they are not assertion?”

        LOL, that’s the point Yapa. I’m not asserting either of those positions. You are! You must justify your position, the burden of proof is with you, not me. I have merely pointed out
        a. Your bias
        b. Different positions held by historians
        c. The common sense question of how Elara’s soldiers and other migrants magically disappeared……………………….”

        This is just proclamation of your biased opinion. Do you say you don’t have to give facts and evidence to reject something? That burden doesn’t exist? You justify “Argument of Authority”?

        Admit your faults, that is a divine quality.

        Thanks!

  • So, Yapa, you are still unable to provide scientefic proof that characteristics such as cruelty and kindness are genetically passed down within specific races? That’s exactly what I thought! What a teacher you must have been! Those poor students 😀

    • yapa

      Dear SD;

      “So, Yapa, you are still unable to provide scientific proof that characteristics such as cruelty and kindness are genetically passed down within specific races?”

      Why are you trying expose your lack of knowledge just like SD? But you cannot be audacious and ungrateful like him how much you try.

      Dear DB; do you know where scientific “proofs” ( if you really can call them proofs)are necessary? That is only in the cases of supporting the hypotheses in Inductive Logic. The conclusions in Deductive Logic do not need any scientific “proofs”. Like Greek? If you happened to be a student of mine probably you would know.

      PROBABLY, YES!, some in my classes too had not the necessary capacity to understand them.

      Cheers, DB!

      Thank you, as usual!

      • yapa

        Above post is addressed to that honourable soldier, not to an unthankful semantic twister. Sorry, DB.

        Cheers!

      • I thank the gods, Yapa, that I never had the misfortune to be one of your poor students 😀 You should have been a dance teacher, that way you could have done what you’re best at — pointless gyrations that have no purpose. But thanks for proving that you have nothing of substance once more.

        As I said before, there’s nothing logical about what you have to say, so unless you can point to studies done by intelligent individuals proving that personal traits are genetically distinctive to certain races, all you have logically proven is that you’re an ignorant bigot, like all bigots 😀

      • Off the Cuff

        David Blacker,

        You stated in you post of April 10, 2011 • 11:36 pm

        “……so unless you can point to studies done by intelligent individuals proving that personal traits are genetically distinctive to certain races, all you have logically proven is that you’re an ignorant bigot, like all bigots 😀 ”

        Tut Tut David name calling seems to be second nature to you …

        You yourself seem to be using those wheeled Goal Posts that you have been griping about in several posts of yours on GV …

        Some Personal Traits are passed down genetically and so are some illnesses (note that you have used a general and not a qualified reference) but you don’t seem to agree. Apparently you cannot observe anything on your own but need a scientific paper to do that for you, how unfortunate for such a self opinionated “INTELIGENT” character.

        I wonder whether other contributors to this discussion SD, BalangodaMan, Wijayapala, Yapa and any others agree with you that tight curly hair and Dark Skin are NOT distinct characteristics of Africans or that White skin is NOT a Distinct characteristic of Europeans or that High cheek bones, slit eyes, etc. are NOT distinct characteristics of the Mongol related races to name just a few. These traits are also personal traits.

        I wonder whether you as an INTELIGENT human being would be able to accept any of these traits as related to Genetics (you used Race) in the absence of Scientific Papers and reject what you can see and observe on your own. Please remember that many scientific premises depend on statistical observation and not direct proof as in Mathematics.

        How many people born to Black African’s in Africa are White or do not posses Tight curly hair (on their heads of course 😀 ) ? Ever heard that Albinos have a genetic tendency to pass it down to progeny? Oops sorry, you need a scientific paper to answer that.

        What is challenged is that whether Traits related to disposition are passed down genetically and that was the original contention. You have changed it to suit your racial based argument in your quoted statement.

        I hope that you will accept that the corollary of your demeaning statement is also true.

        Then you would be calling yourself an “…an ignorant bigot, like all bigots 😀 ” … your words David not mine.

        A good example of looking up and spitting.

      • SD

        Dear OTC, Yapa, David,

        There appears to be a confusion here. The question wasn’t about physical characteristics in races have pronounced differences, the question was about personality characteristics having pronounced differences.

        I think one can safely say that there is a genetic component to personality characteristics. That’s the famous nature vs nurture debate.

        However, it does not follow, that the differences between races are divergent enough to produce distinctive personality characteristics.

        Example, we all share the genetic recipe for our blood. But blood can be freely transfused between races because it has not diverged enough for there to be a difference.

        What proof is there that races have genetically distinctive personality characteristics?

      • OTC, it seems you’ve taken up dancing as well. Maybe you and Yapa should name yourselves the Sinhala Buddhists Only Dancing Into a Corner Troupe. Lol. As SD has already pointed out, physical characteristics are genetically distinct from one race to another, and certain abilities like athleticism or musical skill are genetically passed on within families. But you claimed that there is scientific proof that PERSONALITY TRAITS SUCH AS KINDNESS AND CRUELTY are genetically distinct to certain races. All I’m asking you to do is provide the proof you yourself claim exists. If you’re now saying that no such proof exists, I’ll be happy to take it as simply your opinion.

      • Off the Cuff

        SD,

        Re: Your post of April 11, 2011 • 10:42 am

        I am not confused but David and Wijayapala seem to be so

        This is the original statement I made.

        The first part is a scientific fact and is no longer a belief ..race do account for differences in human character or ability …It is a matter of genetics. As much as sicknesses can be passed down through genes, ability, skin colour, curly hair, straight hair, blond hair, black hair, Physique, Slant eyes, Slit eyes, high cheek bones, cruel character, kind character etc can also be passed down through genes.

        Do you see any mention of DISTINCT RACIAL CHARACTERISTICS IN MY ORIGINAL?

        The colour had been added by others on their own. A case of one feather becoming seven crows.

        There is absolutely no confusion on my part but others modify it to suit their own outlook.

        I see that you recognise that looks do have a genetic relationship and so are some sicknesses and resistance to some sicknesses. There is no absolute scientific rejection that Behaviour MAY also have a genetic relationship.

        At the same time it is known that Dogs, Horses etc can be bred and are bred to enhance certain desierable characteristics. This always points to the same thing being applicable to Humans, meaning GENETICALY engineer behaviour.

        Just observe the Behavioral Disposition of Dogs (there are about 120 breeds)

        Rotweiler – attack dogs
        Ridgeback – Attack dogs
        Blood Hound – Keener sense of smell
        Labrador – usually mild mannered

        I have given further examples in an earlier post with scientific references. You can do your own classification

      • Ha ha OTC, the ammount of wriggling and squirming you need to do to get out of this hole!

        Here is what you said (as you yourself quote): “The first part is a scientific fact and is no longer a belief ..RACE do account for differences in human CHARACTER or ability …It is a matter of genetics. As much as sicknesses can be passed down through genes, ability, skin colour, curly hair, straight hair, blond hair, black hair, Physique, Slant eyes, Slit eyes, high cheek bones, cruel character, kind character etc can also be passed down through genes.”

        If you’re now backtracking and saying that you DIDN’T mean that personality traits such as cruelty and kindness were distinctly passed down via genetics in some races more than others, why not just say so? Is that what you mean or isn’t it? Why all the worming around? 😀

      • SD

        Dear OTC,

        RE: “Do you see any mention of DISTINCT RACIAL CHARACTERISTICS IN MY ORIGINAL?”

        The problem is OTC, you said race accounts for character differences. What you have shown is that genetic transmission accounts for character differences. That fact is not in dispute. However, to generalize for races requires a lot more evidence. Scientific evidence for that has not been provided in any convincing sense. To be more specific, what you have is a “fallacy of composition”. That’s why I said there was some confusion here.

        Let me try to explain why you most likely will not find such evidence, and I primarily address this to Yapa, since he was defending the “chanda” race theory.

        Let’s take OTC’s dog example.

        Firstly, humans are more socially complex animals than dogs, and therefore, far more affected by environmental factors. Even the personality characteristics of dogs are demonstrably more affected by the environment than genetics, so just extrapolate to humans to see how difficult it is to link personality characteristics with race.

        Secondly, dogs are *specifically pure bred for certain behavioural and physical characteristics with no possibility of interbreeding*. Human beings (fortunately?), do not fall into such “pure race” categories. Most inter-breed at the drop of a hat and are a fascinating cocktail of various origins.

        I do believe it is possible to breed humans along similar lines, and select for specific behavioural and physical characteristics. This is the basis behind eugenics and a well-known idea. The unfortunate problem with it, is that it can be difficult to define what selection criteria is more “desirable”. Hitler arbitrarily applied it for blonde, blue eyed Germans, and we all know the result.

        In any case, when it comes to the “races” as we recognize them today, thankfully enough, are too mixed to demonstrate such characteristics, and the environmental factors tend to be the dominant one. In the case of IQ for example, intra-ethnic group variation is higher than inter-ethnic group variation, demolishing the notion of “intelligent races”. In fact, it was the mistaken belief in the “obviously primitive nature of the blacks” that lent justification to white racism. Hitler applied the same idea to Jews. I know this might dash Yapa’s hopes of proving that the Tamils as mentioned in the Mahavamsa are a “chanda” race but life is full of disappointments, isn’t it? 🙂

        Also, Yapa in particular might want to look at the average IQ for Sri Lankans before venturing further into this race based differences theory, given that 70% of Sri Lanka consists of Sinhalese. To spell it out, it would imply that the Sinhalese race on average is quite stupid. Again, happily, IQ has an overwhelming environmental component, which is why it’s difficult to link race with intelligence, giving us hope that all is not lost.

      • SD

        RE: “To spell it out, it would imply that the Sinhalese race…”

        An addendum before someone pounces on my carelessness with terms and attempts to use that to nullify the counter-argument. I used the word race and ethnicity interchangeably. However, I do acknowledge the distinction made by Yapa. But in this case, the distinction does not really matter, since ethnicity doesn’t directly link to genetics, race does.

      • yapa

        Dear SD/DB/Off the Cuff;

        Several times I have shown how people tend to fall into fallacious thinking, using some examples took place in the forum with some incorrect conclusions arrived at by our friends, (not to insult them)wijayapa, BalangodaMan and DB, though the last friend is still reluctant to accept the fact.

        In Buddhism, such mental mishaps are named as falling into “mithya Drushti” (wrong views). Why people fall into wrong views (mithya drushti), the doctrine says, due to lack of understanding of “Patichcha Samuppada” (Dependent Origination). Then how one can prevent himself falling into wrong views? Obviously by understanding the Dependent Origination. What is dependent Origination? It is the understanding of “multiple” “causes and conditions” of effects. That means an effect can be perfectly attributed to its causes and conditions if we can identify all the causes and conditions of the particular effect. That is, by identifying all the causes and conditions; we can perfectly predict the effect of them. In converse, if we fail to understand all the causes and conditions of an effect, we cannot explain or describe it properly, and we tend to fall into wrong views. The Buddha instructs us to understand the causes and conditions of “Dukkha” (suffering) using the Patichcha Samuppada and instructs ourselves to find the way to give an end to suffering. Buddha has described the path, but one can only understand it only by first understanding Patichcha Samuppada, as “the tool” to understand the path. The path, the Buddha has shown is known as Chaturarya Sathya (Four Noble Truths) and none except who has an understanding of Patichcha Samuppada can understand it(Four Noble Truths) and give an end to suffering.

        Why I said such an abstract preface in this forum is to show the importance of understanding Patichcha Samuppada in understanding phenomena of the world. And also to show that how people fall into mental mishaps, when they do not use it for understanding the world

        Eventually I attribute the mental mishaps befallen on our friends to lack of their understanding of Patichcha Samuppada.

        Now, I think there is another dragging discussion of disagreement and I think I would try to use Patichcha Samuppada as per my understanding to shed some light into the discussion, intending it would help to solve the problem soon.

        I also believe invariably it will also bring one or a few of our friends who have got mental mishaps by falling into Mithya Drushti.

        The main players of the discussion are Off the Cuff, DB, SD and wijayapala and I were also there on and off.

        The debate started, after questioning a statement of Off the Cuff by DB and with the later involvement of SD. wijayapala’s and my contribution were I think only in the capacity of supporting the two “warring sides”, therefore my attention will mainly be on the statements of the first three friends.

        Here are Off the Cuff’s statement, DB’s questioning and SD’s two statements respectively which I think supportive of DB’s view. (Most important posts only, according to my view)

        1. The first part is a scientific fact and is no longer a belief ..race do account for differences in human character or ability …It is a matter of genetics. As much as sicknesses can be passed down through genes, ability, skin colour, curly hair, straight hair, blond hair, black hair, Physique, Slant eyes, Slit eyes, high cheek bones, cruel character, kind character etc can also be passed down through genes.
        (Off the Cuff)

        2. OTC, can you link to any accepted scientific study that confirms that characteristics of personality such as kindness and cruelty are genetically distinctive according to race. (DB)

        3. http://groundviews.org/2011/03/18/jaffna-moments-of-nostalgia/comment-page-1/#comment-30139

        4. http://groundviews.org/2011/03/18/jaffna-moments-of-nostalgia/comment-page-1/#comment-30152

        Now we will use the tool of Patichcha Samuppada to dissect the discussion and see how, where and who were fallen into wrong views in the discussion.

        To be continued…….

        Thanks!

      • yapa

        Dear SD;

        “Hitler applied the same idea to Jews. I know this might dash Yapa’s hopes of proving that the Tamils as mentioned in the Mahavamsa are a “chanda” race but life is full of disappointments, isn’t it? :-)”

        If you remember the past well, it was I who brought this idea into the discussion with you and Heshan. There I said, there are genetic differences among the races, however, Hitler interpreted it incorrectly to genocide Jews making a hierarchy among the races. I also said that Nietzsche was the culprit who provided the theoretical background for this.

        There too I said just because that fact could be misappropriated, (genetic differences in races)it does not negate the existence of differences, which is a fallacious thinking, I attributed to Bman and wijayapala, in this same discussion.

        Again in the second sentence above, SD, you are arriving at another incorrect distorted conclusion, by using a fallacious argument. I wanted to discuss it using Patichcha Samuppada, however, as you have pointed it towards me, I would like to show the fallacy in the normal way considering it an urgent matter.

        This is your statement;

        “I know this might dash Yapa’s hopes of proving that the Tamils as mentioned in the Mahavamsa are a “chanda” race but life is full of disappointments, isn’t it?”

        First you want to sling a little bit of mud to my sarong by saying it, but in the latter part of the sentence, you try to throw a hoards of mud at Mahawansa using that fallacious argument.

        But you fail in both.

        Latter part of the sentence: Tamils as mentioned in the Mahavamsa are a “chanda” race

        The word “chanda” came into existence in the forum only after I pointed out that the meaning of “hadi”in the famous pronouncement of Dutugemunu that “Uthurin Hadi Demalu, dakunin golu muhuda….was “chana” (cruel). Here using “chanda” (hadi) Dutugemunu was referring to the Tamils who were incurring a massive destruction in Anuradhapura and not to any other Tamils living in somewhere else or Tamils in general.

        So Dutugemunu or Mahawansa did not mention Tamils are a “chanda” race.

        This particular fallacy of SD is called “Sweeping Generalization” or could be named as “Straw Man”.

        Further the fallacy SD used to give a “verdict” on my “Tamil history debate” was “Argument from Authority”.

        Beware of your arguments. It could be a fallacy. You might fall into “Mithya Drushti”, unless you know your Patichcha Samuppada.

        You also may get a name like “Fallacy King”. Who knows?

        Thanks!, SD

      • SD

        Dear Yapa,

        I accept your explanation about the Mahavamsa and the “chanda” business, as long as you aren’t going to go on to claim that Tamils in general are “chanda”. If you never implied the latter claim, then my apologies, I was indeed attacking a strawman. However, if you were implying the latter claim, then I would require some evidence, just as I would require evidence before someone called the Sinhalese “stupid” or the blacks “primitive” because those are derogatory, and potentially harmful claims.

        The rest of your posts are mostly irrelevant, based on a reluctance or inability to comprehend what I very clearly laid out earlier.

        The height of that misunderstanding is displayed by: “You make negative assertions, are they not assertions? What does rejection of the statement “Tamils did not exist in Sri Lanka” says? It clearly asserts,”Tamils existed in Sri Lanka”, Are you going to say this is not an assertion?”</i?

        Re-read if you misunderstood. You need to raise your game.

        RE: ““It’s interesting to understand history so we can understand why we are the way we are, but it has no bearing on where we must get to – as just and fair a society as possible.””

        And no Yapa, I can’t be wasting my time justifying things that should be patently obvious to people in the 21st century. You need to get up to speed with that conversation. If you have some ground breaking analysis, then state it, and perhaps we can discuss. Otherwise, your question is the nonsensical equivalent of asking me to justify why we need morals.

        You really need to raise your game 🙂

      • SD

        When talking about the Mahavamsa, I do wonder whether Heshan will ever come back. I personally think this forum is somewhat diminished by his absence. Whatever said and done, he was quite the personality and I’m sure he would have had some interesting stuff to say, especially about the Mahavamsa.

        Anyway, we all too often forget that there’s another human-being at the other end of the terminal and I surely ribbed him more perhaps than others, which he always took in his stride. He did hate to admit he was wrong, which was what gave him a quirky but interesting personality. Well, perhaps Heshan will at least post his e-mail address for future contact.

      • BalangodaMan

        OTC, Mr Yapa.

        Thank you for giving us a convincing exposition of your position on ‘the differences between races’. Which is good, because it brings us back to why this sub-discussion on ‘racism’ began in the first place. Don’t you see that what you have described falls squarely within the definition of ‘racism’ given in the dictionary? (read that sentence again).

        So why do you object to the term ‘racist’?

        To follow from that, I have a question for you. Which races (in your opinion) are superior to the Sinhalese? And which are inferior? Mr Yapa care to comment also?

        (I am assuming that, if you recognise differences in the races then you see some as superior and others inferior. Otherwise the whole topic/discussion is pointless)

        To round it off, I have one final question for Mr Yapa, as he has access to Patichcha Samuppada and ‘upright thinking’ (and we do not). Why do you think some races are superior to others?

      • yapa

        Dear SD;

        “And no Yapa, I can’t be wasting my time justifying things that should be patently obvious to people in the 21st century.”

        You mean to say they are self evident truths?

        The people in the 4th century BC too believed thing as ” as presently obvious” in the 4th century BC, but they are no more considered as obvious. What is the guarantee you have that obvious of 21st century are obvious of ever?

        Your affinity to your time of living does not make sure the beliefs of that period are true forever.

        Thanks!

      • yapa

        Dear SD;

        “When talking about the Mahavamsa, I do wonder whether Heshan will ever come back.”

        We will pray together for the hope of his coming back to the forum to grace it.

        Thanks!

      • yapa

        To whom it may concern; [Let me eat eel fish with a stick(Anda malu iraten kaema)as I have vowed not to pronounce his name until he prove his allegations against me or withdraw them with apology]

        “(I am assuming that, if you recognise differences in the races then you see some as superior and others inferior. Otherwise the whole topic/discussion is pointless)”

        We as Buddhists try to see the objective differences and not to make subjective judgments of hierarchy.

        Buddha advised us to look at things “as it is”, and not to produce “Sankara”, by making subjective judgements that produces seeds of kamma (Karma beeja), which is the cause of ensuring the unending re-birth in Sansara. So subjective judgments make Sanasara longer. Therefore I prefer not to make hierarchical judgments of races or whatever it is.

        DO YOU UNDERSTAND WHAT i SAY, “TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN”?

        Thanks!

      • yapa

        An addition to my post addressed to “To whom it may concern…..

        Further, the causes of producing Sankara by subjective hierarchical judgement are “Lobha” and “Dosha” (attachment and repulsion?) which are result of the original root cause, “Avijja” (Ignorance).

        That is why you are crying, insisting and demanding for hierarchical judgments.

        You will have to throw away avijja to see the truth.

        DO YOU UNDERSTAND WHAT i SAY, “TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN”?

        Thanks!

      • SD

        Dear Yapa,

        Your difficulties in comprehension are helping me to find hitherto unknown reserves of patience 🙂 I didn’t say that everything is self-evident, I said that things had matured to a certain level of understanding where it is no longer necessary to justify why “racism is bad”. If you disagree, it is up to you to present ground-breaking arguments to the contrary, instead of wasting time.

        Secondly Yapa, please don’t think we are oblivious to your strategy. It’s unfortunately, all too commonly used by others here on this forum. You throw an idea out there, implying something, so that the unarmed reader goes ahead with accepting the implication. But when more closely interrogated, you quickly fall back to a “literal” interpretation or some other form of nitpicking, claiming you never explicitly implied it. That kind of intellectual dishonesty can only be tolerated so many times, before people notice it for what it is – weasel words.

        If you don’t mean to imply something, then avoid implying it in weasel-worded language. I think others on this forum would agree that you have exhausted the ability to be exempted from it.

        Dear Balangodaman,

        In fairness to Yapa, he did explicitly state that he did not believe in a hierarchy of races. However, he says there can be differences, as is obvious by the differences in skin colour for example. That in itself, I can agree with.

        However, Yapa very astutely weasel-word his way into implying something along
        1. Tamils and Sinhalese are of two distinct ethnicites.
        2. This distinction somehow allows privileges to ethnicities (which immediately implies a hierarchy – how can you be privileged without somehow “deserving it”?)

        Unfortunately for Yapa, he did very directly state no. 2 which immediately contradicts his notion that he doesn’t believe in a hierarchy of races/ethnicities. If he doesn’t somehow believe that Sinhalese are superior to Tamils, why on earth would he expect special privileges?

        So he strives to avoid logic, jumps through hoops and otherwise performs miraculous feats of mental acrobatics to somehow or the other
        square his inconsistent arguments with his deeply-held conviction – that of realizing the manifest destiny of the Sinhalese as the guardians of Buddhism, converting Sri Lanka into the “last refuge of pure Theravada Buddhism”, this planet’s main (only?) surviving conduit to Nibbana.

        Instead, what it does do, is to expose the unfortunate neuroses of a certain kind of Sinhala-Buddhist brain, with Yapa being the honest manifestation of what others hide behind countless layers of outward sophistication.

        The test to discover that particular variety is easy, simply ask whether they oppose or support secularism, and they can be flushed out quite easily.

        Why such people feels that they cannot preserve this religion without Sinhala-Buddhist domination of Sri Lanka, probably goes back to the colonial revivalist movement, as Balangodaman, I and others discussed a while back. Unfortunate, whatever it is that’s surviving in Sri Lanka, certainly isn’t “pure”, and is probably not much more than faux rituals combined with Hindu god worship.

        When and how much longer such Sinhala-Buddhists will take before they lose their persecution complex and stop this nonsense, is the mystery that will keep annoying the rest of us. Similarly, how much longer it will take for the Jaffna Tamils to lose their own persecution complex (arguably more justified), and because these two complexes keep feeding off each other, is another mystery that will keep annoying the rest of us.

        Oh well, life goes on regardless 😀

      • yapa

        “To follow from that, I have a question for you. Which races (in your opinion) are superior to the Sinhalese? And which are inferior? Mr Yapa care to comment also?”

        Baby, we don’t make “Viskirigna” here, we make only bread.

        Thanks!

      • yapa

        Dear All;

        Do you know what “eating eel fish with a stick” means? I detest that slimy, smelly fish to touch, bit I love to chew it a bit and devour in one gulp.

        Thanks!

      • yapa

        “……Dear Balangodaman,

        In fairness to Yapa, he did explicitly state that he did not believe in a hierarchy of races. However, he says there can be differences, as is obvious by the differences in skin colour for example. That in itself, I can agree with.”
        ………………..

        Umba Nadan! Umba Nandan!! Owwa Umbata Honda Padan….

        Thanks!

      • BalangodaMan

        Mr Yapa, I can only apologise for the fact that the dictionary defines a ‘racist’ as someone holding views about race such as you do. SD has joined the dots for you.

      • yapa

        Dear SD;

        “Your difficulties in comprehension are helping me to find hitherto unknown reserves of patience :-)”

        Same here, I am fed up with endless correcting your hasty conclusions.

        “I didn’t say that everything is self-evident, I said that things had matured to a certain level of understanding where it is no longer necessary to justify why “racism is bad”. If you disagree, it is up to you to present ground-breaking arguments to the contrary, instead of wasting time.”

        True, but what you cited as self evident are not self evident. I did not generalize it, but you are trying to get out of the puddle you fell into.

        Who told you racism is good? It is obviously bad. Do you dare to say i mentioned something like that? Must be in your dream. I never ever become a racist even in my next life.

        “Secondly Yapa, please don’t think we are oblivious to your strategy. It’s unfortunately, all too commonly used by others here on this forum.”

        I don’t think so.

        “You throw an idea out there, implying something, so that the unarmed reader goes ahead with accepting the implication. But when more closely interrogated, you quickly fall back to a “literal” interpretation or some other form of nitpicking, claiming you never explicitly implied it. That kind of intellectual dishonesty can only be tolerated so many times, before people notice it for what it is – weasel words.”

        Your inability to generate new ideas is not my problem. I am endowed with that luck. I cannot anything about it. I also know some people have no capacity to understand what I say due to various shortcomings in their thinking processes, but I have nothing to do about it, I am sorry.

        However,I never intend to be intellectually dishonest, you know I have said “I am yathvadi Thathakari”, that is my strength. Many accept this fact.

        “If you don’t mean to imply something, then avoid implying it in weasel-worded language. I think others on this forum would agree that you have exhausted the ability to be exempted from it.”

        If I am too going to be like others I don’t think I can make any distinct contribution. I do do because I am unique. Many appreciate it.

        “Dear Balangodaman,

        In fairness to Yapa, he did explicitly state that he did not believe in a hierarchy of races. However, he says there can be differences, as is obvious by the differences in skin colour for example. That in itself, I can agree with.”

        Umba Nandan……………..

        “However, Yapa very astutely weasel-word his way into implying something along
        1. Tamils and Sinhalese are of two distinct ethnicites.
        2. This distinction somehow allows privileges to ethnicities (which immediately implies a hierarchy – how can you be privileged without somehow “deserving it”?)

        1). is perfect. Do you not accept that Tamils and Sinhalese are of two distinct ethnicites?

        2). Distinction, That of course is none of my business, I am not in a position to make that distinction.

        I never talk about privileges if they don’t deserve. I talk only of the privileges which deserve. I see as it is, and do not deny the existence of a sand storm, after hiding my head under the sand dune.

        “Unfortunately for Yapa, he did very directly state no. 2 which immediately contradicts his notion that he doesn’t believe in a hierarchy of races/ethnicities. If he doesn’t somehow believe that Sinhalese are superior to Tamils, why on earth would he expect special privileges?”

        I never stated no. 2. Please show if I ever said through out my participation from the very inception in the forum. I am very sure I never said or even never intended to say so. In the future too I will never say so.

        “So he strives to avoid logic, jumps through hoops and otherwise performs miraculous feats of mental acrobatics to somehow or the other
        square his inconsistent arguments with his deeply-held conviction – that of realizing the manifest destiny of the Sinhalese as the guardians of Buddhism, converting Sri Lanka into the “last refuge of pure Theravada Buddhism”, this planet’s main (only?) surviving conduit to Nibbana.”

        You are exaggerating! I never avoid logic, it is my strongest trait.

        “Instead, what it does do, is to expose the unfortunate neuroses of a certain kind of Sinhala-Buddhist brain, with Yapa being the honest manifestation of what others hide behind countless layers of outward sophistication.”

        Here you say I am honest. In an earlier paragraph you said I am intellectually dishonest. What is this inconstancy? End doesn’t know the beginning?

        “The test to discover that particular variety is easy, simply ask whether they oppose or support secularism, and they can be flushed out quite easily.”

        You expect too much. I never talk without valid reasons.

        “Why such people feels that they cannot preserve this religion without Sinhala-Buddhist domination of Sri Lanka, probably goes back to the colonial revivalist movement, as Balangodaman,…”

        I have no clear idea. But I think it is deserved to be preserved.

        “…I and others discussed a while back. Unfortunate, whatever it is that’s surviving in Sri Lanka, certainly isn’t “pure”, and is probably not much more than faux rituals combined with Hindu god worship.”

        I don’t think you have a sufficient knowledge to do such a general proclamation.

        “When and how much longer such Sinhala-Buddhists will take before they lose their persecution complex and stop this nonsense, is the mystery that will keep annoying the rest of us.”

        How do you decide on something to say a nonsense when you don’t have necessary knowledge? Are you sure you are not using “Argument of Authority, which is a very common disease in you?

        “Similarly, how much longer it will take for the Jaffna Tamils to lose their own persecution complex (arguably more justified), and because these two complexes keep feeding off each other, is another mystery that will keep annoying the rest of us.”

        Jaffna Tamils Tamils have to lose it soon, for a speedy reconciliation process. I am not sure whether it is more justifiable. I think you are trying to show off to the world that you are a very fair man saying so.

        “Oh well, life goes on regardless :D”

        Don’t you think it is miserable and full of suffering as yapa say? (especially when yapa is giving this much of trouble to you)

        Cheers!

        Thanks!

      • yapa

        “Mr Yapa, I can only apologise for the fact that the dictionary defines a ‘racist’ as someone holding views about race such as you do. SD has joined the dots for you.”

        Sing it again girls and boys!, LOUDLY ..EEE!

        Numba Nandan Numba Nandan Owwa Umbata Honda Padan……. Ha! Ha!! LUDLY!, LOUDLY EEEEE…..!!

        Thanks!

      • SD

        Oh dear Yapa 🙂

        You seem to have only read the part of my post that’s of interest to you 🙂 As BalangodaMan has said, I’ve tried hard to connect the dots for you, which you have apparently – missed (again)!

        As I’ve tried to show, there’s already a contradiction in your argument.

        And here’s what clinches what BM said earlier:
        “According to the United Nations conventions, there is no distinction between the term racial discrimination and ethnicity discrimination.” (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism)

        If you assert special privileges for Sinhalese, that automatically reduces others to “second-class” status – in other words – ethnicity discrimination a.k.a racism.

        Is that explanation clear enough? 😀

        Sorry Yapa, you really have to think your position through.

      • yapa

        Dear SD;

        “Sorry Yapa, you really have to think your position through.”

        Don’t jump into hasty conclusions. If you listen to my sermon, you will withdraw all those arguments taught to you by the organizations like UN of the west. Those are not absolute truths.

        Many are based on Aristotle’s Principle of Democracy, described in 400 BC. Don’t you think they are outdated for your adored 21st century thinking?

        Dear SD; Most of the western concepts are suffering from the inherent short comings of the concept of Democracy. That is why you had to propose “undemocratic” and “racist” concept of 50 – 50, as a remedy to bridge the gap in democracy. You have accepted something has to be done to prevent adverse effects of Democracy on minorities.

        This clearly shows that the western political concepts based on “democracy” cannot fulfill the aspirations of the complex world today. Many concepts like race, and its connotations cannot be fully explained and solved through democratic principles, it is not capable enough to understand. That is why Bman and you all have to go round the mulberry bush to at least to define the concept. That is because Democracy is only a concept based on an intelligent man, it is a theory not the reality. If you understand the reality of “Race” etc. in real term there won’t be such a confusion.

        One of the main problem (Mithya Drushti) in western concepts is that they are built on the primary misconception of “Uchcheda Vada”. that is man is something confined to a life span of the present life. The concept is man is born without any reason and dies for no reason after that life span. Can a man with some common sense believe believe this. A man come into this world without any reason and leaves for no reason. Some effect not attributed to a cause. Would you believe such a thing exist? It is not against the fundamental concept of Science, cause a & Effect?

        Man or his behaviour cannot be rightly explained based on such a misconception. That is the main challenge the western knowledge system is facing today. You find contradictions everywhere, and you will have to keep on changing with the newly arising contradictions. That is why there is no end or finding ultimatum in any western subject. They have to keep on changing their stances. Today’s knowledge is not tomorrows knowledge. These chaos are due to the errors in fundamentals.

        Why don’t you look for some better fundamentals to define man, being and to develop better theories based on better fundamentals?

        Would you like to listen to my sermon? I propose you a better philosophical background for a better set of theories and a better world outlook.

        It is amply available everywhere. However, most of our people have become borders in our own country, they have no knowledge about the things around them. Their homes are somewhere else, and their knowledge is about their homes and surroundings only. Borders of this country have no knowledge about what valuables we have here.

        Would you like to listen to my sermon?

        Thanks!

      • Off the Cuff

        SD, (David is also invited)

        Lets look at the statements that originated this branch of the main thread.

        BalangodaMan on April 8, 2011 • 4:39 am asserts as follows in response to my objections to his frivolous name calling of Yapa.

        “1. The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others”.

        The above statement has two parts
        first part – The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability

        Second part – that a particular race is superior to others.

        Referring to the second part I wrote as follows (April 8, 2011 • 5:21 pm),

        The second part is of course rubbish and that is the part that is Racist.

        So I have, in no uncertain terms, established my position on Racism which is someone who thinks that a particular race is superior to others.

        I contested the first part standing on a Scientific base as follows.
        The first part is a scientific fact and is no longer a belief ..race do account for differences in human character or ability … It is a matter of genetics. As much as sicknesses can be passed down through genes, ability, skin colour, curly hair, straight hair, blond hair, black hair, Physique, Slant eyes, Slit eyes, high cheek bones, cruel character, kind character etc. can also be passed down through genes.

        Now where do I talk about a DISTINCT Characteristics of a Race?

        That SD, is either an ill advised construct of those who are unable to comprehend the language or are confusing me with the rest of Bman’s post which I purposefully ignored as it was rubbish.

        Surely I cannot be blamed for the lack of understanding of others?

        Your statement of April 11, 2011 • 3:26 pm.
        The problem is OTC, you said race accounts for character differences. What you have shown is that genetic transmission accounts for character differences. That fact is not in dispute.

        SD read what I have written again with care. Notice my emphasis on Science. The first sentence ends calling the readers’ attention to GENES which IS the main theme of the argument. A Race is a Subset of the Universal Gene Pool. It is this subset of Genes that makes a race. The fundamental building block is the Gene and not the reverse.

        No one will be able to contest that the Gene make up of each and everyone of us depends on the pool that we draw it from (see my earlier reply to your 4 questions). I believe that their is no race that can claim to be ‘PURE’ all are a mixture at the Hardware level, DNA and GENES.

        Sinhalese do share 55% of a common gene pool with Tamils. Naturally so, as we originated from India and so did the Tamils. I have proved that definition wrong and you yourself has now accepted it. You said referring to my argument … “What you have shown is that genetic transmission accounts for character differences”. That SD, is exactly what I set out to do. The fact that you have recognised it proves that I have been successful. You go further and state “That fact is not in dispute”.

        No dispute with You, Yapa and me but I don’t think the others will accept. Specially David, who runs with a wheeled goal post.

        That is exactly what I wanted to show. Genetics do account for character differences. This is indisputable. Check the References I provided and the multitude of such references available on the Internet. The ‘Degree’ to which it affects the ‘MIND’ is what the scientific community is unsure of. Criminality, unsocial behaviour, Kindness, Generosity etc. are all MIND centric.

        I was asked to give Scientific references and I gave them. Has anyone commented on them? Peer review? David of course is blind. Just under my post of April 10, 2011 • 12:08 am, addressed to him and Wijayapala providing the scientific references is a post from him April 10, 2011 • 1:42 am, which is Hilarious. Myopia or what? Well no matter he called himself an … an ignorant bigot, like all bigots 😀 those were his own words and smiley.

        He outdoes himself again by admitting in a later post … We all know that character traits are genetically passed on within families, so that a musical parent might have a musical child and so forth. There is no argument about that. So now he accepts that CHARACTER TRAITS are passed down via the Genes …… and again falls back on his dreams…… running with his goal posts and INTRODUCING words that I have never used …..trying to project his own personality on me ….

        His confusion about genes is highlighted in this statement …. “The skills of the Gurkhas as warriors is mostly a legend of the British and Indian armies and has no basis in geneticism. Gurkhas are not an ethnic group at all, but in fact a tribe or people made up of several ethnic groups. They have fought well at times and badly at times, and their legend is more a military myth than any reality”.

        Forgetting that an exchange of GENES only requires one to have a heterosexual intercourse resulting in a progeny, he states the Gurkha’s are a mix ….. Genetics is blind to all these.

        Trying to water down the Gurkha example he stridently pontificates from the position of God, that its a myth proper gated by Indian’s and the British.

        What’s wrong with David he asks for Scientific References yet again on April 10, 2011 • 3:16 pm …..look up David…. that was posted long ago.

        Here goes David Asking for proof yet again April 10, 2011 • 3:03 pm. …look up David …. look up.

        David’s at it again …April 10, 2011 • 11:36 pm….. this is becoming really monotonous.

        Here goes David again running with his Goal Posts. April 11, 2011 • 12:10 pm

        Here goes the Goal Posts again April 11, 2011 • 2:23 pm
        …. personality traits such as cruelty and kindness were distinctly passed down via genetics ….. words are introduced out of his imagination.

        Going back to your post you say “I do believe it is possible to breed humans along similar lines, and select for specific behavioural and physical characteristics”.

        I am not talking of breeding but smaller is the Genetic pool the more will be the common characteristics.

        Your argument is based on the SUBSET of the Gene Pool, whereas my argument is based on the GENES themselves. This is why behavioural dependency on Genes are done mostly on identical twins. They have the same Genome and DNA. Without such a restricted genome observation of genetic dependency becomes a herculean task. The question is whether Genes pass on human characteristics to the progeny? Will a child exhibit characteristics of its parent even if it is adopted at birth? I believe it will, either by mannerism or by looks (observe the children and parents around you …one disadvantage here is that nurture would be under the parents).

      • yapa

        Dear SD;

        “If you assert special privileges for Sinhalese, that automatically reduces others to “second-class” status – in other words – ethnicity discrimination a.k.a racism.

        Is that explanation clear enough? :D”

        You have no explanation at all.

        I asserted special privileges with reasons. Do you mean to say rationality tends to racism?

        Oh! my, my!!

        Mewa ahala Pana Palayan Pereda!

        Thanks!

      • SD

        Certainly Yapa. Even Wijayapala seems to think there’s no alternative to democracy, but it appears that you have discovered a more comprehensive solution, based on the notion that human life spans multiple births.

        Clearly, this is a bit difficult for me to accept, since I haven’t seen a shred of evidence, other than an argument from incredulity, for the latter assertion. Nevertheless, please let’s not get side-tracked with that and assume it’s true for the moment.

        Let’s hear your story.

      • BalangodaMan

        Mr Yapa,
        Re. ‘racism’. We cannot change the dictionary definition. It reflects what most people in the world regard ‘racism’ to be. All you’re revealing Mr Yapa is that racism is normal where you live. In the previous debate on secularism you argued that such an agenda is necessary in order to preserve Sinhalese Buddhism, when you were arguing against secularism. (In that thread we – the secularists – were arguing against the claim that Sinhalese Buddhists are born as Sinhalese Buddhists because of past good karma and diligent Buddhist practice in previous births. Therein lies the spurious claim of superior race we are refering to again and challenging you on)

        Now you’re arguing against democracy, so I’m not sure what new mess you intend to dig for yourself. What next?

        But I’d like to pick another serious hole in your theory on race. Fact: The forefathers of the Sinhalese and Tamil were the SAME people, living in the SAME place, speaking the SAME language, with SAME physical characteristics and appearance, eating the same food, having the same mixture of genes. This was as recent as 80,000 years ago. How does your excellent and detailed discourse on race fit with this? Or are you saying that the Sinhalese and Tamils evolved from different kinds of monkey?

        (BTW quite amusing above! you have totally misunderstood SD’s irony in the earlier post)

      • And the Sinhala Buddhist Dance Corner Troupe continues its baila 😀

        “The above statement has two parts first part – The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability. Second part – that a particular race is superior to others. Referring to the second part I wrote as follows (April 8, 2011 • 5:21 pm), The second part is of course rubbish and that is the part that is Racist. So I have, in no uncertain terms, established my position on Racism which is someone who thinks that a particular race is superior to others. I contested the first part standing on a Scientific base as follows.The first part is a scientific fact and is no longer a belief ..race do account for differences in human character or ability … It is a matter of genetics. As much as sicknesses can be passed down through genes, ability, skin colour, curly hair, straight hair, blond hair, black hair, Physique, Slant eyes, Slit eyes, high cheek bones, cruel character, kind character etc. can also be passed down through genes.”

        But you’re unable to prove that character traits like cruelty and kindness can be passed down genetically within a race in a form that is different to other races.

        >em>”Now where do I talk about a DISTINCT Characteristics of a Race?”

        Lol, when you said this: “race do account for differences in human character or ability” Perhaps you don’t understand the difference between character traits and physical ability; which doesn’t surprise me. Cruelty and kindness (which you mention above) are character traits. But you cannot scientifically prove that these are passed down characteristically within particular races. 😀 Keep dancing; it’s quite funny to watch.

        The discussion was about race, and you’ve mentioned it several times in your comments, but are now pretending you didn’t mean race when you said “race”. Why are you so ashamed of your beliefs. If you think some races are more cruel and kind than others, just say so. Why all the wriggling and worming about?

        >em>”Surely I cannot be blamed for the lack of understanding of others?”

        You can be blamed if you continue to be disingenuous in the face of claimed misunderstanding. Did you or didn’t you mean that personality traits such as cruelty and kindness are passed down characteristically within specific races? There, that’s a pretty clear question, no? I believe you did. If I’m wrong in my understanding, why don’t you just say so? Then there will be no further misunderstanding. 😉

      • yapa

        Dear DB;

        It can be seen even from your last post that you are vehemently opposing the following statement of Off the Cuff.

        ““race do account for differences in human character or ability””

        So let me ask some questions.

        If you don’t accept his idea what is your position or to what do you attribute the differences found in races in human character and ability?

        For instance, we have seen Kenyans are good for long distance running. Usually black people are stronger than Japanese. Rwandan people are normally has a bigger physique than many other races. In front of a big made race, smaller made race is timid. Well- built people in our society generally have a more personality than a short, small- made fellow. Further, you find some mental retardation passes from one generation to the next. Their personality traits like kindness, cruelty are not similar to that of normal people. Isn’t this a clear case of such traits having bearing on genetics? Specially last two example before the last (better personality, timidity) don’t you think as some characters similar to “cruelty and kindness”, and show a relationship to genetic characters that has a bearing on race?

        Further, I think there must be enough scientific evidence to prove Off the Cuff’s case. I didn’t check yet, as it was very obvious, though you seemed to prefer to keep on asking the moon for the dinner.

        If you are still adornment, next time I will definitely knock you out with a Scientific Blow!

        Beware of Truth, I warn you Dear DB!

        Thanks!

      • yapa
      • yapa

        Dear DB;

        Diagnosed the problem? I think it is “BOOKWORM SYNDROME”? right?

        Thanks!

      • yapa

        I would like to take this opportunity to wish a very happy Sinhala and Tamil New Year to Sanjana and his staff, all our friends contributing here, all the readers and to all Sri Lankan brothers and sisters.

        Thanks!

      • Off the Cuff

        David,

        Quite an outburst but without substance.

        I accept that your languages skills are far superior to BalangodaMan’s as evident from the following statement ….but no amount of twisting and turning can alter what I have written as its on record on GV.

        “But the Jaffna Tamils didn’t propose the Citizenship Act, OTC, the Sinhalese did. So I maintain that no minority has passed a repressive law against another minority. If the Sinhalese hadn’t brought it before parliament it wouldn’t have happened.

        You stated the following in your post on April 13, 2011 • 2:24 pm

        But you’re unable to prove that character traits like cruelty and kindness can be passed down genetically within a race in a form that is different to other races.

        I have already stated (with scientific references) that human characteristics are passed down Genetically.
        I have not stated that there is any difference in how it is passed down by humans. What ever race they belong to, the method is the same, physically by heterosexual intercourse and scientifically by the Genes. So what is there to prove? That is an accepted fact.

        I dont know whether you do it differently. We do it as above.

        I have proved my case with scientific references which you continue to ignore as it wont fit in to your agenda just like in the statement of yours supporting 50-50 that I have reproduced above.

        Genetic Influence on Human Psychological Traits
        Thomas J. Bouchard, Jr. University of Minnesota, Minneapolis
        Among knowledgeable researchers, discussions regarding genetic influences on psychological traits are not about whether there is genetic influence, but rather about how much influence there is, and how genes work to shape the mind. As Rutter (2002) noted, ‘‘Any dispassionate reading of the evidence leads to the inescapable conclusion that genetic factors play a substantial role in the origins of individual differences with respect to all psychological traits, both normal and abnormal’’
        Copyright 2004 American Psychological Society.

        Genetic and Environmental Influences on Behavioral Disinhibition
        Susan E. Young, Michael C. Stallings, Robin P. Corley, Kenneth S. Krauter, and John K. Hewitt
        Institute for Behavioral Genetics, University of Colorado, Boulder, Colorado
        Addiction Research and Treatment Services, Department of Psychiatry, University of Colorado Health Sciences, Center, Denver, Colorado
        Department of Molecular, Cellular, and Developmental Biology, University of Colorado, Boulder, Colorado
        Extensive data from twin and adoption studies also confirm the importance of genetic factors in explaining individual differences in personality [Bouchard, 1994; Eaves et al., 1989; Loehlin, 1992; Pedersen et al., 1988]. Generally, the findings demonstrate that there are substantial genetic influences on almost all personality traits, accounting for between 40% and 60% of the phenotypic trait variance; the influence of shared environmental influences are minimal. Twin studies of NS have estimated the broad sense heritability of NS between 0.30 and 0.40 [Heath et al., 1994; Stallings et al., 1996], suggesting that genetic factors explain a substantial proportion of the variance in this personality dimension.

        Caitlin M. Jones, Rochester Institute of Technology – Therefore it seems obvious to reach the conclusion that an individual’s antisocial or criminal behavior can be the result of both their genetic background and the environment in which they were raised.

        Jeffrey C. Tatar, Rochester Institute of Technology
        Not only do adoption studies support a genetic basis for personality disorders that are shown to have a relation to criminality, but twin studies as well.
        If you want to contest these statements use similar references else you would be dancing around the Mulberry bush similar to what you are doing around the 50-50

      • yapa

        Dear DB and others;

        “Cruelty and kindness” differences among wild beasts must be fixed on by rocks & trees in the jungles, I feel. Tigers live in rock caves and therefore they are cruel. Deers eat grass and tree leaves and therefore they are innocent and kind.

        Ha! Ha!! ha!!!, common sense Vs. Bookworm Syndrome.

        Cheers, dear DB.

        Thanks!

      • Still dancing, OTC? My goodness the lengths you have to go to once you’ve got in a corner, no? So are you now saying that there are no personality differences between races? Why so ashamed of your beliefs? 😀

      • Off the Cuff

        David,

        My stand has not wavered. But your comprehension of English had been found wanting.

        The Scientific Refferences are just two posts above yours. Dont tell me you have difficulty understanding them?

        Are you contesting the reserchers’ statements?

      • SD

        Dear Balangodaman, David, OTC, Yapa

        Honestly, I think we are wasting time on this. This whole argument is based on a compositional fallacy. I don’t think OTC meant to say that races have special characteristics due to genetics or are deserving of special privileges, and I believe Yapa holds the same view, but both OTC and Yapa did make a clear language error when they incorrectly stated that races pass down features like kindness and cruelty. It has never been shown that individuals inheriting such characteristics (there is evidence for this) can be generalized to a group such as a race (no such evidence) – hence the compositional fallacy. I think we can leave it at that?

        However OTC, the deeper problem is not there. The deeper problem is that Yapa has openly made the racist statement that the Sinhalese are entitled to special privileges. However, you have never challenged that open assertion, whereas you have issued a strong challenge to David on the *suspicion* that he has racist motivations.

        I know that’s because you think Yapa means well, whereas you probably know nothing about David. But I submit to you again that it’s more important to challenge the assertions of people who spread ideas similar to Yapa’s and TT’s, no matter how well-intentioned they might be.

        1. David is a former soldier and belongs to a minority group which has had no history of harming anyone on ethnic grounds. Yapa belongs to our majority group which has clearly engaged in brazen stupidity in the past. Do you think it’s not more important that we challenge someone in a majority group who issues such misbegotten ideas?

        2. Isn’t our inaction, which can be indirectly perceived as passive endorsement, the reason why this racist rubbish still continues 60 years after independence, both in Sinhalese and Tamil communities?

        3. And now I finally ask you OTC. Is it the first time you’ve heard ill-thought rhetoric similar to Yapa’s? Does that not mean that we as a majority group have failed to criticize and crush this stupidity, or at least made it mightily embarrassing to say things like this without getting socially ostracised? And is that not the direct reason why these stupid ideas keep getting culturally transmitted to the next generation?

        That’s why I propose we all think about this very seriously, especially those of us who belong to a majority group. I will readily admit that, it’s a guilt-complex of my own that prompts me to be so vocal about this, a failure in the past to speak up against such ideas, a mistake I will never make again. I would say it’s the least we can do when other people have had to sacrifice life and limb for our inaction.

      • yapa

        Dear SD;

        Your post of April 15, 2011 • 9:14 am is a very clear case about one of your grievances that you cannot control of your own and a complain and a pray to a “higher authority” about that nuisance, and again a complain against the “higher authority” it self for not doing something about that unfavourable causes to you. Really it seems TT and I have been two pricks in the flesh of you your eyes.

        Now see a little bit at what you say;

        “Honestly, I think we are wasting time on this. This whole argument is based on a compositional fallacy. I don’t think OTC meant to say that races have special characteristics due to genetics or are deserving of special privileges, and I believe Yapa holds the same view, but both OTC and Yapa did make a clear language error when they incorrectly stated that races pass down features like kindness and cruelty. It has never been shown that individuals inheriting such characteristics (there is evidence for this) can be generalized to a group such as a race (no such evidence) – hence the compositional fallacy. I think we can leave it at that?”

        If you want to raise the white flags, do it without complaining the opposition. We accept your white flag but not the “complain”.

        No any fallacy is involved in what Off the Cuff said. But the composition fallacy was in your side. DB, started it and you supported it.

        Anyway, no shooting, lay your arms down and come to this side. Ha! Ha!!

        …………
        Now your crafty plan to kill two birds in one stone;

        1. Your complain about me to the higher authority;

        “However OTC, the deeper problem is not there. The deeper problem is that Yapa has openly made the racist statement that the Sinhalese are entitled to special privileges. However, you have never challenged that open assertion, whereas you have issued a strong challenge to David on the *suspicion* that he has racist motivations.”

        Why not? Off the Cuff made his due concerned about it. Please see what he had said explaining his position to you.
        …………….
        2. The complain about the higher authority it self.

        “I know that’s because you think Yapa means well, whereas you probably know nothing about David. But I submit to you again that it’s more important to challenge the assertions of people who spread ideas similar to Yapa’s and TT’s, no matter how well-intentioned they might be.”

        1. David is a former soldier and belongs to a minority group which has had no history of harming anyone on ethnic grounds. Yapa belongs to our majority group which has clearly engaged in brazen stupidity in the past. Do you think it’s not more important that we challenge someone in a majority group who issues such misbegotten ideas?

        2. Isn’t our inaction, which can be indirectly perceived as passive endorsement, the reason why this racist rubbish still continues 60 years after independence, both in Sinhalese and Tamil communities?”
        …………………..

        “3. And now I finally ask you OTC. Is it the first time you’ve heard ill-thought rhetoric similar to Yapa’s? Does that not mean that we as a majority group have failed to criticize and crush this stupidity, or at least made it mightily embarrassing to say things like this without getting socially ostracised? And is that not the direct reason why these stupid ideas keep getting culturally transmitted to the next generation?”

        Dudanoda binda banda theda kanda, kanda dev raja samine…..;
        Mage kukula naesu eka dhajaya obage palu yaka….’
        Thawa eka budha dinak thaba, innata ida nodee maka……
        Bala ella heluawa hella mulam bella maru thaene

        ………..
        “That’s why I propose we all think about this very seriously, especially those of us who belong to a majority group. I will readily admit that, it’s a guilt-complex of my own that prompts me to be so vocal about this, a failure in the past to speak up against such ideas, a mistake I will never make again. I would say it’s the least we can do when other people have had to sacrifice life and limb for our inaction.”

        http://www.google.lk/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CBwQtwIwAQ&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DWP7DUfMFXo8&rct=j&q=kukulu%20havilla%20%2Byoutube&ei=0denTfG3DI3PrQeM6YCoCA&usg=AFQjCNE8WvH42VHPh_i7F8uRuLKqwcW54Q&cad=rja

        Thanks!

      • yapa

        In my post above, after the sentence,

        “Why not? Off the Cuff made his due concerned about it. Please see what he had said explaining his position to you.”

        following quote from Off the Cuff should be added.

        “I would rather wait for his explanation of the sentence “Claiming special privileges with reasons, even as racism”.”

        Thanks!

      • SD

        Dear Yapa,

        RE: “No any fallacy is involved in what Off the Cuff said. But the composition fallacy was in your side. DB, started it and you supported it.”

        Whatever excuse that rocks your world 😀

        I won’t let you throw up red-herrings and distract us from the main theme of the conversation.

        To wit:
        Sinhalese deserving special privileges automatically reduces others to “second class”. That by definition, is racism.

        You have no reply 😀

      • Lol, is this argument still going on??? OTC still claiming on one hand that personality traits are distinct to race, then claiming that’s not what he meant, then pointing to research that has nothing to do with what he’s saying. 😀 And still wriggling like a worm on a hook, unable to give a straight answer. Ha ha ha.

        My disagreement isn’t with the researchers you’ve falsely quoted OTC, but your analysies of their research. The sources you’ve quoted say that physical characteristics are passed on by genetics. We see this in family lines and races (physique, skin colour, hair type, etc — and hilariously our new court clown Yapa thinks these are personality traits 😀 ), so no arguments there. The greyer area is when it comes to intellectual or other non-physical abilities. While it is clear that these are passed down within family lines, there is no proof that this is via genetics (and OTC’s sources don’t substantiate this theory) and not simply because of exposure to a particular environment, and the argument on this is still open. However, one thing that is clear is that traits such as cruelty and/or kindness (which OTC listed amongst others) are neither physical characteristics nor intellectual ability; they are personality traits; and there is absolutely no proof in science (and certainly not in OTC’s quoted sources) that personality traits are genetic, not in family lines, and certainly not in races. Now unless OTC can actually provide an accepted source that actually says that the above is true, we must accept that it is for now unproven by science and merely an opinion. And it’s OK to have an opinion, OTC; Hitler’s opinion was that Jews were vermin, 19th Century American whites were under the opinion that blacks and Red Indians were sub-human or merely property; but don’t try to pass off these opinions as scientific fact unless you want to look like an idiot 😀

        Meantime, Yapa (do you really expect us to believe that someone paid you to teach?) dances around waving his middle fingers and talking about tigers, lions, and dogshit. My gish, tose poor unfortunate students of yours!

      • yapa

        Dear SD;

        “To wit:
        Sinhalese deserving special privileges automatically reduces others to “second class”. That by definition, is racism.

        You have no reply 😀 ”

        Why not? Didn’t you see this?

        http://groundviews.org/2011/03/18/jaffna-moments-of-nostalgia/comment-page-1/#comment-30202

        By the way, do you know the difference between, substantiated statements and others?

        World is a perfectly homogeneously flat plate, eh?

        Scientist must pay their attention to invent an injection a brain improving injection, I think. There is a dire need.

        By the way,

        1. Do you accept that composition fallacy was committed from your side?

        2. How do you like my sermon?

        3. You didn’t give your feed back about that beautiful song written by Rapiel Thennakoon and originally sung by Sunil Shantha. don’t you think its better to listen to beautiful song and sleep tucking your arms between your legs rather than just spreading fallacies in a blog without wasting others’ time? By the way, how is that parrot? Do you know there is a folk story among our people about a demon whose life is with his parrot? When the parrot’s leg is strangled, the demon cries in pain? Don’t you enjoy songs and folk stories?

        Thanks!

      • yapa

        Dear SD;

        “I won’t let you throw up red-herrings and distract us from the main theme of the conversation.”

        How is red-herring fish, tasty?

        Is it alright if I use my “irate” (stick)to eat it, like in the case of “Aanda Malu” (eel fish)?

        I love the fish, but I hate its smell and sliminess.

        Thanks!

      • SD

        Dear Yapa,

        Still talking about fish but no reply to the central question?

        Yapa your reasoning is like a box of chocolates. You never know what kind of illogic you’re gonna get next…

        Ohoma yang, ohoma yang 😀

      • SD

        Dear Yapa,

        I asked you for a reply to the following:
        Sinhalese deserving special privileges automatically reduces others to “second class”. That by definition, is racism.

        You have replied to it with:
        “Why not? Didn’t you see this?

        http://groundviews.org/2011/03/18/jaffna-moments-of-nostalgia/comment-page-1/#comment-30202

        Aiyyo Yapa! Following the link you say has answered the question results in another post claiming to have answered it earlier! LOL 😀 Thank you for the lesson in recursion Yapa, but kindly provide us with a clear and direct response to the simple question above.

        The rest of your post tries to once-again sidetrack the issue with poems, fish and other gymnastics.

        I wait in breathless anticipation to see what on earth is next!

  • Yapa, what does this sentence even MEAN?? “DB was adornment about his stance” Is this how you taught your unfortunate students; by stringing random words together and pretending they mean something? 😀

    “I even did not try the web to find scientific evidence purposely as it is unnecessary and redundant.”

    You mean you didn’t bother because you knew it didn’t exist. Lol. All this wriggling and squirming and long dancing sessions by you and OTC, when just one link will do. If no one believes you when you say the earth is flat, the solution is to prove it with scientific evidence, not write long streams of nonsense about how you don’t need evidence to prove the earth is flat. 😀

    “He rejected/forgot the ability of arguments/logic to prove some thing almost perfectly, which is an impossibility for scientific evidence.”

    So you admit that there is no scientific evidence that personality traits such as cruelty and kindness are distinct to certain races over others? Very good, Yapa. When you’re wrong, admit it. That’s the difference between an adult and a child.

    • yapa

      Dear DB;

      “So you admit that there is no scientific evidence that personality traits such as cruelty and kindness are distinct to certain races over others? Very good, Yapa. When you’re wrong, admit it. That’s the difference between an adult and a child.”

      I don’t bother to find scientific evidence to prove “Socrates is mortal” and likes. That is obvious to me.

      Obvious for higher school students may not be obvious for Montessori children, dear DB. Cheers!

      Thanks!

    • yapa

      Dear DB;

      “Yapa, what does this sentence even MEAN?? “DB was adornment about his stance” Is this how you taught your unfortunate students; by stringing random words together and pretending they mean something?”

      I don’t like to be perfect, that is why I leave some mistakes in my language to happen. I fear that you would envy me.

      Thanks!

      • Like most of your other fears, Yapa, this one too is quite unfounded; believe me, there is no danger whatsoever of you being envied 😀 While there is historical evidence of Socrates’ death, and therefore scientific proof of his mortality, the fact remains that there is no scientific proof of personality traits being distinctive to races.

        Gahapang puthey thawa pinumak!

  • Timez

    Just one comment:

    How come Jaffna district population alone is 650 720? Guess Jaffna district is over 90% Tamil.

    The whole of SL is about 20 million and Tamils were 11% of the population at independence.

    That should be about 2.2 million total today, diaspora included.

    How many Tamils are there in the diaspora? TNA says about 1.2 million.

    What about the GENOCIDE? How many died in the socalled GENOCIDE which has been going on from the time the British left SL?

    ============

    PS. Jaffna will be more beautiful and prosperous than ever before. We just have to be fair and have fair demands on others.

  • yapa

    Dear SD and Others;

    You and your friend to whom it may concern were struggling to define racists and stick the label on me based on dictionary definitions and on the knowledge provided by the western Political concepts. You (I use “You” in here in plural)went up to far away that even seeing differences among people as racism. Claiming special privileges with reasons, even as racism.

    I think it is true, if your stance was there are no differences between races implying that there is no any differences among the people of the world. They are “identical twins” of a universal family. This stance is evident especially from the last post of that person without name, I reproduce below as my evidence,

    ……………

    Mr Yapa,
    Re. ‘racism’. We cannot change the dictionary definition. It reflects what most people in the world regard ‘racism’ to be. All you’re revealing Mr Yapa is that racism is normal where you live. In the previous debate on secularism you argued that such an agenda is necessary in order to preserve Sinhalese Buddhism, when you were arguing against secularism. (In that thread we – the secularists – were arguing against the claim that Sinhalese Buddhists are born as Sinhalese Buddhists because of past good karma and diligent Buddhist practice in previous births. Therein lies the spurious claim of superior race we are refering to again and challenging you on)

    Now you’re arguing against democracy, so I’m not sure what new mess you intend to dig for yourself. What next?

    But I’d like to pick another serious hole in your theory on race. Fact: The forefathers of the Sinhalese and Tamil were the SAME people, living in the SAME place, speaking the SAME language, with SAME physical characteristics and appearance, eating the same food, having the same mixture of genes. This was as recent as 80,000 years ago. How does your excellent and detailed discourse on race fit with this? Or are you saying that the Sinhalese and Tamils evolved from different kinds of monkey?

    (BTW quite amusing above! you have totally misunderstood SD’s irony in the earlier post)
    ……………………

    It is true that Western Political seems to support the “all humans are equal” notion, when look at them from the surface. However, true story is not so. We will take a very famous instance where it seems that the theory backs the above notion. Rule of Law, professed by Aristotle, seems to indicate “equal individual rights” as I have shown in another thread of the discussion. Rule of Law:

    “No one is above law and all are ruled by the law. Every individual is equal before the law and equally entitled for the protection of the law.”

    However, you know that in that “Democracy of Direct Representation”,in ancient Greece, “all the individuals were not considered as equal”. Only the citizens had voting power. Slaves, soldiers etc. were kept away from the affairs of governance. Either they were considered “not as individuals” or those particular individual as not equal to so called “citizens”.

    Their individual rights were only equal for citizen and not for others!

    We will take another famous case,”United States Declaration of Independence”. At the beginning it declares;

    “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.”

    This was passed on on July 4, 1776, but we very well know when the slavery/apathy in United States ended.

    Further, even now their “equality of individuals” does not go beyond American citizens. How many wars on other countries were wage by the USA, “in the interests of American citizens”?

    Even in the administrative policies of the government it does not equate their citizens with people of the other countries. If so no visa barriers are possible in their law.

    Dear SD and No name man, I think you understand what I say. You have generalized some cases for universal validity, that were defined to be in certain contexts. I don’t think there is a single place even in western political ideology, equal rights were “meant” in universal context, though in some places it is mentioned so in exaggeration. West may have proclaimed equal individual rights but it does not practice it, I think as it is not practical.

    So do you understand the folly/danger of learning from “Slogans”.

    So do you still say I am a racist because I say there are differences in people or races? Why don’t you use the same yardstick to western states and call them racists?

    My dear half knowledge is dangerous!

    I said I don’t want any body’s certification to know that I am not a racist, can you remember?

    My ideology as a Buddhist on people (including animals, as Off the Cuff rightly pointed out) safely I can say based on following Buddhist ideology.

    “Najajja wasalo hothi – Najajja hothi brahakmano. Kammana wasalo hothi – Kammana hothi brahakmano”

    No one is a Brahmana or Wasala by his birth but becomes Brahmana or Wasala ny his action (kamma).

    How do you compare this Buddhist doctrine with the two example I cited before? Which is more profound according to your opinion?

    I look at people from that glass. I don’t consider any body is high or low just because they are Tamils or Sinhalese. No one can show I had said otherwise. I challenge to anybody to specifically to show if I had said so. No, Never. I have my vision, it is not adhoc.

    Now, can you remember I claimed Sinhalese may claim special privileges, on the basis of their contribution as the civilization builders of this country, on temporal dimension, as also for the guardianship of Buddhism. Do you deny special privileges for contributors? If that is the case ” a salary” is not entitled for person for his labour? Still you may not agree to the claim of special privileges to Sinhalese for protection of Buddha’s doctrine as still you are in the notion that Buddhism has nothing special than any other religion. I think very soon you will realize that the case is different. Then you also will accept that my third dimension is also a valid reason for special treatments.

    Thanks!

    • SD

      Dear OTC, Wijayapala and others,

      What are your respective positions with regard to Yapa’s claim of entitlement to special privileges for the Sinhala-Buddhists?

    • BalangodaMan

      Mr Yapa,
      You said “as also for the guardianship of Buddhism”

      But why Buddhism alone? Why not the religion of the Nagas and the Yakshas? If anything, shouldn’t the religions of ALL the people who live in SL be equally important?

      But you continue to avoid the real issues here.
      1. That we and the Tamils were the same people only quite recently.
      2. That most Buddhists believe that one’s birth is determined by deeds in previous births. Therefore there is a built-in attitude of superiority of birth and consequently of the race you are born into. (we also debated this at some length. it is on record).
      OTC also care to comment?

      • yapa

        Man with a no name; (ha! Ha!!)

        “You said “as also for the guardianship of Buddhism”

        But why Buddhism alone? Why not the religion of the Nagas and the Yakshas? If anything, shouldn’t the religions of ALL the people who live in SL be equally important?”

        ……………

        You think guardianship of Buckingham Palace and of your smelling house is same?

        Thanks!

      • yapa

        “2. That most Buddhists believe that one’s birth is determined by deeds in previous births. Therefore there is a built-in attitude of superiority of birth and consequently of the race you are born into. (we also debated this at some length. it is on record).
        OTC also care to comment?”

        No, it gives a built in attitude to retard bad things looking at their bad consequences and to be better by doing good things. It gives a person confidence of his ability to mold his own destiny by himself. It convinces a person about his ability to act with his own free will and bring improvements to his life by himself.

        Conversely if all the people are equal by birth and have no differences, they cannot act with free will for improvements. Any effort to improve life has no results.Their destinies are determined and hence deterministic.

        Further, if life ends with the present life and good/bad actions have no their consequences, there is no much motivation or value for doing good things or living a good life in this short period of life time. Good and bad have no difference. No hope for doing good for improvement of life. No aim or no goal, and life becomes a wondering or going astray. The result is frustration and mental dissatisfaction.

        You must be heard of existential anxiety, believed to be the ultimate result of the hopelessness of living as per the modern philosophical branch of west, “Existentialism”. According to the most modern thinking of west about existence of life, life has no any philosophical meaning and man cannot improve himself to understand or achieve complexities of life and hence to limit their attention to existence alone. Existence itself is the only valuable thing and to be existed should be the only valuable thing. That is the vision towards the human life of the modern western thinking. Human is a miserable creature and no effort is capable of saving him from this doomed destiny. Life has no real meaning and hopelessness is the only hope, the western thinking can endow to the human kind. But the confidence put in humans of their free will for improvements, possibility of continuous improvements in life towards some goal, Buddhism kindles a hope of a noble life in his heart. That is why most of the western people are attracted to Buddhism in the present time.

        Thanks!

        Thanks!

    • yapa

      Dear SD and Others;

      In my post above I have shown how the concept of “individual equality”, has been “abused” in universal context to derive wrong conclusions.

      Now I would like to draw your attention to another distortion taken place to the same concept in the hand of our political pandiths including you (You again is plural).

      To a certain extent, as in the case of franchise it is o.k. to take literal meaning of the concept of “individual equality”, that is “in political terms”. Within the political domain “Rule of Law” is perfect even for all the individuals in today’s context. Definitely it has some practical validity. In the same line of arguments can anybody say that individuals are equal in all other terms too?

      Are all the individual equals in Biological terms? Are they equal in Chemical terms? Are they equal in sex? Are they equal in terms of their colour of skin, outward appearance, strength, in cultural terms, in whatever any other terms you are able to name? No, in almost all other terms every individual is unique and different from any other individual, though there may be some sort of similarities.

      Really if we talk in absolute terms no individual is equal to any other individual!

      Here the mistake you have done again is taking “relative term” as “absolute term”.

      Do you think Aristotle have done this mistake, pronouncing his Rule of Law? No, he was a wise man to understand the value of context and “Term”. He rectifies the lapse in the Rule of Law, pronouncing another wise principle. He says “Man is a political/social animal” and countes its negative effect. When these two principles are taken together, I think Aristotle is absolutely correct, but Thomas Jefferson was absolutely clueless about “individuals” after being corrupted by the religious dogma of “Creation”, in preparing the United States Declaration of Independence.

      The whole lot of knowledge generated in west relies on the four axioms according to my understanding.

      1. Creation

      2. Man’s creation in the image of the God and his approval for man to consume every other thing created by the God. (Man’s supremacy over other beings)

      3. Uchcheda vada (no other births other than the present one)

      4. Materialism

      Any knowledge system of the west until recent time I think can be reduced to the above four axioms. All the Social Sciences including Political Science have no any contribution, apart from them.

      However, Modern Science has changed its path after realizing the folly of the axioms it was relying on. Modern Science no more a sole dependent of those stupid axioms and Philosophy naturally had its course, and was not fully confused on the popularity of above axioms.

      So anybody I think would understand why the western knowledge system has to keep on changing its goal post forever as the time moves.

      GARBAGE IN GARBAGE OUT!

      (Do you now think my proposition that your problem is your lack of knowledge of “Patichcha Samuppada”, inability identify the real causes and relate them to the effect?)

      Thanks!

    • Off the Cuff

      Dear SD,

      Re your post of April 13, 2011 • 12:38 pm

      In fairness to Yapa I find that his post has a deeper meaning than a superficial interpretation of the written word would convey. I think he has written a very thought provoking comment. His style and argument is more suitable in a science blog but I have observed that changing.

      He complains that observation of ‘differences among people’ is interpreted as racism. I would rather wait for his explanation of the sentence “Claiming special privileges with reasons, even as racism”.

      According to him your inferences would be valid only if Race is taken to mean the Human Race. Indicating an underlying deeper view
      (Yapa please correct me if I have misinterpreted your writing)

      “I think it is true, if your stance was there are no differences between races implying that there is no any differences among the people of the world. They are “identical twins” of a universal family”.

      Hence I believe that his thoughts go deeper than what we see superficially.

      Notice that Yapa uses the following definition
      “No one is a Brahmana or Wasala by his birth but becomes Brahmana or Wasala by his action”
      I have taken the liberty to correct a typo and to leave out the word Kamma as it may lead to misinterpretation. Brahmana was the highest cast and Wasala the lowest. This clearly shows that Yapa considers all as equal and elsewhere he extends it to all living animals as well.

      Personally I consider all inhabitants of SL should have EQUAL basic rights. Cast creed colour ethnicity, religion and all such man made differences should be disregarded. That is my position and it is beyond discussion as far as I am concerned.

      I would reserve my comments to a later date and I hope this short one would be of some use.

      • yapa

        Thanks, Off the Cuff for perfect clarification.

      • BalangodaMan

        Mr Yapa! That’s a ‘perfect clarification’???? OTC has just about summed up your position by stating the opposite! And you agree???? My word! You (and OTC) some days ago went to great lengths to justify how you see different races as having distinct character traits (note: not physical attributes. These are due to the environment in the regions of the world these people migrated to, climate, survival etc. Also, not like breeds of dogs which is an entirely different thing. An Alsation and a Poodle did not become different because the same type of dog migrated to two different parts of the world!). Now OTC is back-peddling, claiming he supports the idea that every human is equally valuable and should be treated equally (paraphrased).

        The contradiction is this, Mr Yapa – and you persist it missing this important point. Re. karma – If doing good things ensures a ‘better birth’ in the NEXT life then it logically follows that a GOOD birth in THIS life is due to having done good deeds in PAST lives (you have claimed that karma and rebirth are a fact, a Cosmic Law that has been scientifically proven by quantum physics in the previous thread). Consequently people living in our generation have already been judged before birth and the judgement is evident in where they have been born and into what circumstances. By also claiming that being born in SL as a Sinhalese Buddhist is one of the highest births possible as a human (to double-check I have asked you which races you regard to be of a ‘better birth’ in your opinion. Still waiting) you have made quite clear your stance on race, and it fits within the dictionary definition of ‘racism’. There, I too am joining the dots for you.

        This is nothing to do with Africans being stronger or faster. Acknowledging that an African can run faster by including one in the athletics team is one thing; denying him equal rights as a human by claiming that Cosmic Law made him into an African as a result of some adverse Cosmic judgement is racism.

      • yapa

        Man with a no name;

        As always again you have perceived the opposite.

        A built- in problem.

        Thanks!

      • Off the Cuff

        BalangodaMan and any others who contributes to his views expressed in his post of April 14, 2011 • 2:53 am

        ” ….how you see different races as having distinct character traits

        Now OTC is back-peddling, claiming he supports the idea that every human is equally valuable and should be treated equally (paraphrased)….”

        BalangodaMan Challenge you to PROVE BY copying and pasting giving reference to the date and time of my posts, in your very next post, the exact words and the context that I have written which conveyed the meaning of races having DISTINCT character straits (note: not physical attributes. ….”

        What it will prove rather, is that You don’t have a GRASP of the ENGLISH Language and that you are DISHONEST

        You should refer back to the answers I gave to SD in response to his 4 questions way back.
        http://groundviews.org/2011/03/18/jaffna-moments-of-nostalgia/comment-page-1/#comment-29959
        here is just one para, there is more, go and read before attempting to answer this post of mine because if you don’t, you will make a FOOL of yourself and expose your bigotry in no uncertain terms.

        Verbatim extract from my post of April 7, 2011 • 12:37 am
        3. Ethnicity is an accident of birth. No one should be deprived of a fundamental right or be accorded an enhanced fundamental right because of it. Everyone should enjoy the same Fundamental Privileges. All Lankans are guaranteed equal Fundamental Rights by her Constitution.

        BalangodaMan … Note the date above, I am still rowing forwards and I still have not encountered any white waters or a water fall. You on the other hand is on the brink of a Whirlpool and is about to eat your words.

        Don’t try to introduce your own preconceived Ideas in to comments of others by DISHONESTLY INTRODUCING words that were never written by them.

        If you FAIL IN YOUR ATTEMPT AT PROVING WHAT YOU ARE NOW ATTRIBUTING TO ME BY REPRODUCING WORD FOR WORD WHAT I HAVE WRITTEN you are just a [Edited out.]

        Good Luck in establishing your HONESTY & INTEGRITY.

      • SD

        Dear OTC,

        His post doesn’t have a deeper meaning, it has an obvious contradiction. That contradiction has been repeatedly highlighted, both by Balangodaman and myself. Holding such contradictions in mind is a sign of a compartmentalized brain, and Yapa is willing to compartmentalize it into any amount of partitions necessary in order to arrive at his foregone conclusion – that the Sinhalese are entitled to special privileges. Reason and logic are but mere wayside casualties on his journey there 😀

      • BalangodaMan

        OTC, your position on ‘racism’ is confusing. On the one hand you say you believe all people are equal (in value) and at the same time raise a big objection to Mr Yapa’s position being identified with the dictionary definition of racism. As far as I can tell, you have never challenged Mr Yapa on his view on the subject, instead you have rather eloquently reeled off reams of paragraphs (eg) comparing breeds of dogs with types of humans in order to support the point Mr Yapa is making. On balance you come across as supporting Mr Yapa’s view, indeed he has congratulated you for putting across his point rather ‘perfectly’.

        Can you clarify in which areas you actually disagree with Mr Yapa on the subject of racism? That would certainly help avoid confusion.

        Something along the lines of ‘yes I now agree Mr Yapa’s position on racism is as defined in the dictionary and my initial objection is now withdrawn’ will do.

    • Off the Cuff

      B’man

      You have asked me to comment on your post of April 13, 2011 • 12:42 pm

      Don’t you see the contradiction in what you have written?

      “But why Buddhism alone? Why not the religion of the Nagas and the Yakshas? If anything, shouldn’t the religions of ALL the people who live in SL be equally important?”
      You question, citing a non existing religion in Lanka

      Then you say … “But you continue to avoid the real issues here.
      1. That we and the Tamils were the same people only quite recently.
      2. That most Buddhists believe that one’s birth is determined by deeds in previous births. Therefore there is a built-in attitude of superiority of birth and consequently of the race you are born into. “

      I don’t really understand 1. Hope the others do.

      2. You seem to be either questioning the Buddhist belief if you are a non Buddhist or if you are a Buddhist or were a Buddhist at some point of time, your knowledge of basic Buddhist principles is clearly wanting.

      With such poor knowledge of Buddhism it’s no wonder that you arrive at deluded conclusions.

      • BalangodaMan

        OTC, re. the ancient religion of the Yakshas and the Nagas you say “You question, citing a non existing religion in Lanka”.
        You see, that’s the whole point, innit? It is non-existence because the Sinhalese ‘invaders’ (Yapa’s word) obliterated what religions these people had. (they must have had religions). Therefore, we the Sinhalese of THIS present day should feel it necessary to restore what our ancestors destroyed.

        Protecting religions (if we must, that is) includes those that we destroyed. It is part of the history and heritage of Lanka, even if most people do not lie awake at night thinking about it.

      • Off the Cuff

        BalangodaMan,

        Re; Your post of April 14, 2011 • 3:07 am

        Strange to find you ignoring the existing religions and wanting to restore non existing ones about which, even you don’t have an iota of knowledge. Did they sacrifice Humans on the Altar? Some religions of the world are known to have Sacrificed Virgins to the Gods…. Advocating restoration of such barbarism … if that were indeed a practice of those old religions you want to preserve? Advocating animal sacrifice through torturous killing, you don’t know whether that was one of their practices? Are you certain that they did not have Cannibalistic Religious Rituals? ….. You are TOTALY clueless of what you are talking about, in the first place ,,,,,by your own admission.

        BM you seem to be just stringing along, thoughtlessly throwing any foolhardy notion you get in to the discussion.

        Then again you ask specific questions from me and when you get an answer completely ignore them in your counter posting.

        What is your intent? Disrupt or intelligent discussion? If its the first you should cure yourself with some Self Hypnotism and if its the later think before you hit the submit button.

      • BalangodaMan

        OTC, you are introducing a discussion on the relative merits of individual religions, which is at best subjective. This is not the topic currently under discussion. (In the previous thread I was one who argued about the danger of giving ANY religion, and religions in general, state patronage amounting to politicising of religion, and pointing out the danger of ancient religions in the modern age, particularly when used as a tool for creating division)

      • Off the Cuff

        BalangodaMan,

        I am reposting this comment as my earlier reply has gone to an incorrect position

        Re; your post of April 14, 2011 • 12:36 pm

        you say OTC, you are introducing a discussion on the relative merits of individual religions,

        Emphatically No, whatever gave you that idea?

        I am just trying to find out whether your intentions of citing the Yaksha and Naga religions were Honourable or not. Apparently they are not and meant to be disruptive,

        You invited me to comment on your post of April 13, 2011 • 12:42 pm

        It contained two other numbered questions.
        After I provided you my response you have chosen to be silent.
        Don’t you have anything to say?

      • BalangodaMan

        OTC, the inconsistency in applying a principle is what I am pointing out. Mr Yapa complains about the Tamils and Colonial rulers ‘invading’ SL, yet regard Sinhalese ‘invading’ as something else. In addition, if there is a good case for special privilege for protecting Buddhism then a better case exists for protecting the ancient religion and culture of the Yakshas and Nagas (who pre-date the Sinhalese) – particularly as protection for these appear have been lax.

        I have explained this in a dozen different ways.

        (to avoid beating about the bush, the popular belief among SL racists is that the Buddha himself nominated SL as the rightful ‘promised land’ for Buddhism and the Sinhalese as written in the Mahawamsa, hence the claim assumes an elevated status for both Sinhalese and Buddhism in SL)

        Further, the great objection you raised has also been addressed above, which has been further expanded on by SD (ie. it is the responsibility of all of us to criticise views that are unacceptable today). Meaning, it is our duty to point out that views like Mr Yapa’s are dangerous.

      • yapa

        “(to avoid beating about the bush, the popular belief among SL racists is that the Buddha himself nominated SL as the rightful ‘promised land’ for Buddhism and the Sinhalese as written in the Mahawamsa, hence the claim assumes an elevated status for both Sinhalese and Buddhism in SL)”

        Next door there is a parrot with a no name that is always crying ” “racist! racist!!, crees..creess..sss creeeeeeeeeee….crasist, craaaacistsssss..”

        Thanks!

  • yapa

    Dear SD;

    what is your opinion about my sermon? You have not given the feed back yet, though you showed an interest to “listen” to it.

    What happened, you don’t agree with it or you are still made no final thought about it or did not understand what I said.

    Does that sermon portray me as a racist again or you understand there is much in Buddhism that world can get to form its future vision and a new world outlook?

    Your views regarding above is much appreciated.

    Thanks!

    • BalangodaMan

      Mr Yapa, the world can gain a lot from Buddhism. Many progressive people around the world today gain much from many different viewpoints and teachings, ancient and modern, including Buddhism.

      Re.your statement “Does that sermon portray me as a racist again or you understand there is much in Buddhism that world can get to form its future vision and a new world outlook?”

      However, your statement is a nonsensical and cynical concatenation of two diverse ideas. (1) racism and (2) Buddhism. No one is suggesting that Buddhism is racist. It is those that use it for political purposes that use it to justify a racist purpose. The Buddha did not teach that the Sinhalese and Buddhists should have a privileged position in Lanka. That was written in a poem by someone with a ‘glorification’ agenda some 900 years later, and discovered only 200 years ago, and used 120 years ago to promote a nationalist programme, and abused today by racists to cause division in our country.

      The problem with your statement (re. what the world can learn from Buddhism) is that we in SL are not applying the teachings ourselves. A Buddhist society cannot be at war. Impossible. It is a pacifist ideology. Any society that has evidence of conflict, clinging to material possessions (for example, therefore we need to fight and kill to protect it from being taken away) cannot be a Buddhist society. It may be a Buddhist society only superficially. It is a society that likes to think it is a Buddhist society but actually isn’t.

      • yapa

        “That was written in a poem by someone with a ‘glorification’ agenda some 900 years later, and discovered only 200 years ago, and used 120 years ago to promote a nationalist programme, and abused today by racists to cause division in our country.”

        In Sinhala there is a term called “Pol Booruva”, I don’t know how it came into life. If we translate it directly to English it should be “Coconut Donkey”, but I have not heard of donkeys climbing coconut tress to eat coconuts. But most of these “Pol Booruvas” climb coconut trees and those who are down under can see their “pol Booru” nudity.

        It is also said that they love their Booru voice very much,and think others also love it like them. However, they have a little memory that they have now forgotten how one of his ancestors was beaten for trying to undertake dogs duty.

        For this Pol Booruva, Mahawansa was discovered only 200 years ago. For this Pol Booruve America was discovered by Christopher Columbus. America was not there until he set his foot there and the map was prepared later. “Natives” were brought by these Spaniards from India and hence they were named “Red Indians”. Later these original European gentlemen found that the Red Indians were trying to grab their “traditional homelands” and unavoidable circumstances forced them to destroy those uncivilized ruffians.

        For these Pol Booruvas until the “Sudu Masters see the Mahawansa, it was not there. It was discovered only when it was discovered by their masters. Sun and moon also were discovered by those “Sudu Masters”, when they came out of the jungle, in 13 – 14th centuries.

        I think recently Jayalath Manorathne, produced a new drama about this community to pay tribute to the service rendered by them to the world, by showing others what not to do.

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgdBBBkWUAE&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL

        Thanks!

      • BalangodaMan

        Mr Yapa, another unnecessary digression to avoid the main issue (the main issue: the abuse of Mahawamsa for racist purposes). But since you raise it let me add this. Just like many other cultures our ancestors in SL did not take our archaeology seriously. Other examples are Egypt and Greece, their ruins where in ruins and being pilfered by the locals for millennia. It is the British and the French that had a different perspective on history and attached value to it (not necessarily altruistic one might argue). Our treasured ruins stayed hidden and buried (lost) in the jungle for some 700 years. Even after it was ‘discovered’ by the British the locals were too apathetic to clear it, for a further 70 years. So, yes some people knew it was there, but generally they didn’t care about it (if they did it would not have gone into ruin in the first place, just like in Egypt and Greece). It was the Buddhist revival of the 1880s onwards, and the fervent British adventures into archaeology, that gave rise to the historical sites we have today. My point was, the Mahawamsa is often abused by people who wish to claim Sinhalese Buddhist supremacy and (my here’s point) this is a RECENT phenomenon – NOT one that is 2,500 years old as incorrectly stated by the supremacists.

        (your comparison with the Native American Indians is entirely expected, and totally irrelevant to the point)

      • BalangodaMan

        Mr Yapa, my point was, the Mahawamsa is often abused by people who wish to claim Sinhalese Buddhist supremacy and (my here’s point) this is a RECENT phenomenon – NOT one that is 2,500 years old as incorrectly stated by the supremacists.

        (your comparison with the Native American Indians is entirely expected, and totally irrelevant to the point)

        (repeated for emphasis)

      • yapa

        “It is the British and the French that had a different perspective on history and attached value to it (not necessarily altruistic one might argue). Our treasured ruins stayed hidden and buried (lost) in the jungle for some 700 years. Even after it was ‘discovered’ by the British the locals were too apathetic to clear it, for a further 70 years.”

        Dharmapala Thuma used to call some people by the name of “Gon Thadya”. But if he were alive to see the post above he he would never call them by that name because there is a better suited man for it.

        For this man, those who produced the civilizations are not worth but those who re-discovered them are worth. Producing a historical Chronicles to describe the whole lineage of dynasty is not of value, but the discovery it from the safely kept hiding place is more worth.

        Built in problem. In Sinhala “Nuhugune”.

        (upan gei kore bali aeriyath naere!)

        If I were you I would have gone dumb.

        Thanks!

      • BalangodaMan

        Mr Yapa, miles away from the point. Tactics of digression again. No one said the original civilisation is less valued than the later find. My point was that using the Mahawamsa for purposes of creating division among our people only came when a divisive agenda was undertaken after the 1880s. Before that what was in it was not accessible to the masses.

        This is not a criticism of the Mahawamsa (it has a huge value in our history as an ancient document) but a criticism of the use (abuse) to which it has been put. When the existence of the Mahawamsa was known only to the reclusive monks (prior to 1800s) it was not an instrument of racist propaganda because the monks had no such agenda. They stayed in the jungle doing what monks do.

        Mr Yapa, this is a hopeless challenge you have undertaken. If you are trying to prove my statement wrong – ie. if you’re trying to prove that the Mahawamsa is ‘mostly used to bring harmony between the Sinhalese and the Tamil people in SL by the supremacists (rather than division)’ you’ll find it to be a tough job. Good luck.

      • yapa

        “Mr Yapa, this is a hopeless challenge you have undertaken. If you are trying to prove my statement wrong – ie. if you’re trying to prove that the Mahawamsa is ‘mostly used to bring harmony between the Sinhalese and the Tamil people in SL by the supremacists (rather than division)’ you’ll find it to be a tough job. Good luck.”

        I am ready to take the tough job. Tell me directly are you ready?

        Thanks!

      • BalangodaMan

        Yes Mr Yapa, I’m ready to be shown ‘that the Mahawamsa is mostly used to bring harmony between the Sinhalese and the Tamil people in SL by the supremacists (rather than division)’.

        (you may add it in the same position on this thread as the proof you are supplying to SD, so we don’t need to jump about. You may use quantum physics, telekinetics, voodoo, mumbo-jumbo, anything you like in proving the above, or even plain logical argument. Suggest you first re-read the statement you are trying to prove (above) just in case you have misread it the first time)

    • SD

      Dear Yapa,

      RE: “What happened, you don’t agree with it or you are still made no final thought about it or did not understand what I said.”

      Yes, you could say I had difficulty understanding it, but not for the same reasons you are thinking 😀

      You start off on an irrelevant tangent about Americans bombing other countries for personal gain. True, I can join you in condemning that, but what does that have to do with whether Americans discriminate against their fellow countrymen, which is the discussion we are having?

      Then you launch yourself into a long list of atrocities committed by other countries in the past, such as discrimination against blacks. But Sri Lanka had its own list, for example, everyone knows what Kashyapa did to Dhatusena, or Rajasinghe’s wang-gedi story, or better yet, the ’58, ’83 and other riots. So how does pointing out historical atrocities justify continuing to discriminate against our fellow countrymen, which is again the discussion we are having?

      The Americans don’t discriminate their fellow countrymen in such ways anymore. In case you didn’t notice, the world has moved on and now they even have a black president. In fact, no race claims special privileges in any part of the developed world, because it’s “racism”. It appears that only a certain racist segment in our country, still living in the past, want to continue to discriminate and assert superiority over others, the evolutionary equivalent of some shit-flinging, dominance mounting ape 😀

      Time to grow up Yapa! 😀 and stop this babyish demands for privileges over the so called deeds of your ancestors, which you had nothing to do with, and in any case, does not give you a right to assert superiority over anyone else.

      RE: “Does that sermon portray me as a racist again or you understand there is much in Buddhism that world can get to form its future vision and a new world outlook?”

      What your sermon shows is the following:
      If you claim privileges because of Buddhism, it automatically results in others being reduced to second-class citizens, which is racism. This means that your variety of Buddhism is the causative agent of that racism.

      Any part of any of the above that’s still difficult to understand?

      • yapa

        Dear SD;

        By the way, WHY there is a word called “PRIVILEGES”?

        If it automatically results in others being reduced to second-class,when somebody claims privileges, how on earth there exists a word called “PRIVILEGES” among those gentlemen, who always approve only of equal rights?

        I don’t understand your “undara Demala”.

        Please explain this dilemma to me.

        Thanks!

      • SD

        Dear Yapa,

        New tactic Yapa? Why, what happened? Previous one of asserting privileges for Buddhists not working out too well for ya? Thought maybe it’s time to get into a definition based argument instead? 😀

        What happened to the justification you said you’d written? Where is it? Did it join that scientific paper proving Buddhism through quantum mechanics?

        Ane manda Yapa – these anti-Buddhist atheist-western-Christian agents just don’t go away do they? They will stop at nothing short of annihilating the only true pure Theravada Buddhism! Their entire existence is centred around it. We all know they are not interested in the 800 million other Buddhists because they are not pure. They just need to destroy the 14 million, outnumbered and endangered souls in Sri Lanka, guarding the last conduit to Nibbana. You must continue your holy war against these western conspirators pompously masquerading as self-appointed crusaders for fairness and justice on behalf of other human beings… baka pandithayo…. their hearts are “kilutu”, and they use the “kaduwa” to gain undue advantage… dennanko munta… (Please Yapa, no swear words)

        Sorry, couldn’t help taking another swipe 😀 You’re well intentioned Yapa, but ultimately, living in an alternate reality.

        ohoma yang ohoma yang 😀

      • yapa

        Dear SD;

        “New tactic Yapa? Why, what happened? Previous one of asserting privileges for Buddhists not working out too well for ya? Thought maybe it’s time to get into a definition based argument instead? :D”

        Don’t get over joyed, You know no, I like to play with my prey before I devour it no, I had said earlier too that I must have been a cat in my last birth. Invariably, your destiny this time too has been sealed just like always in arguments with me. Don’t have a slightest doubt about it. You know “time” is a marvelous Phenomenon, (not sure, phenomenon?)that makes drastic changes at a time anybody does not expect. One of the main problems that a person cannot win is the obstacle that everything cannot be predicted. However, your joy is a problem of your ignorance and is not tested for “time Proof”.

        I am on my way. Until such time you can enjoy your life going a “donkey ride”, Oh!, I forgot to tell you about Jyalath manorathne’s latest production, it is “Booruva Mahaththaya”. You love yourself? Ok, take care, bye!

        Thanks! Ha! Ha!!

      • yapa

        Dear SD;

        You have not responded to my ideas about “numerical minority” and “marginalized minority” on the other thread. I would like to know your views on that as well.

        Will you respond either in this thread or the other thread.

        Thanks!

      • yapa

        Dear SD;

        Do you accept that the “Composition Fallacy” you referred was committed from your side?

        Accepting follies is a good way to improvements.

        Thanks!

      • yapa

        Dear SD;

        Do you accept that the “Composition Fallacy” you referred was committed from your side?

        Accepting errors is a good way for self improvements.

        Thanks!

      • SD

        Dear Yapa,

        It’s obvious from the way you’re floundering about like a fish out of water, from your desperate attempts to steer the conversation to anything but the topic, that you do understand the problem at some level. You do understand that asserting privileges for Buddhists automatically implies that others are reduced in status, but you don’t want to admit it, “amara-vikkepa-vada style”, because you fear that admitting to the truth of it will somehow be a problem for “protecting Buddhism”.

        What to do Yapa? We don’t have a pill to take away your insecurities. We can only point out that protecting Buddhism should not be at the expense of debasing others. Your own intellect and courage must do the rest.

        Ohoma yang, ohoma yang 😀

      • BalangodaMan

        There are two outstanding scientific papers overdue from Mr Yapa already. (1) the quantum physics proof of karma, rebirth and nirvana requested by Sujewa and (2) ‘living entities’ born out of moisture requested by Longus, both from previous threads over the past year.

      • yapa

        Dear SD;

        “It’s obvious from the way you’re floundering about like a fish out of water, from your desperate attempts to steer the conversation to anything but the topic, that you do understand the problem at some level.”

        Your obvious has never become obvious! Must be self evident to yourself, I think. Enjoy yourself with foolish imaginations. You and that drama man are racists, not I. But you don’t know that.Both of you are superficial thinkers and have no considerable knowledge in any field other than some language skills to understand your plight. That is why you don’t understand your folly.Top to bottom both of you are racists.

        On the other hand both of you know that you have no place in the forum when I am there. Fire flies have no place, when the sun rises. (hiru dutu kadopaeni) Ha! Ha!!

        Thanks!

      • BalangodaMan

        Oh dear, Mr Yapa. One moment you go to great lengths to justify racism on grounds of genetic characteristics, and say ‘anti-racist thinking’ is a bad western idea (prompting you to illustrate that with democracy, which you also denounce as a bad western idea) thereby confirming your viewpoint is ‘what is called racism’ (per the dictionary). I thought you were happy with that. Now you seem to take a U-turn? Does that mean you have come to your senses? Can you share with us what made the difference?

      • yapa

        Dear SD;

        I am ready to show that both of you are racists. You also have a chance to show that I am a racist as you claimed.

        Shall we take the challenge seriously, one to one basis. First, I propose you and I take turns, and Drama man should keep quit. I will take the turn with him after our debate is finished.

        In a post you will have to answer all my questions and you can ask all your questions. My turn is also same. Both must answer questions honestly and with relevant answers.

        Are you ready? If you want you can take your turn, if not indicate I will start it.

        Now will see who is the man and who is woman.

        Thanks!

      • yapa

        “Oh dear, Mr Yapa. One moment you go to great lengths to justify racism on grounds of genetic characteristics, and say ‘anti-racist thinking’ is a bad western idea”

        [Edited out]

        You saw this no,

        http://groundviews.org/2011/03/18/jaffna-moments-of-nostalgia/comment-page-1/#comment-30369

        [Edited out]

        Thanks!

      • SD

        Aiyyo Yapa,

        RE: “I am ready to show that both of you are racists. You also have a chance to show that I am a racist as you claimed.”

        This is a new standard of “malle pol” even for you. The topic under discussion isn’t whether or not I’m a racist, and the topic of whether you’re a racist or not should be taken up with Balangodaman and David. I’m only interested in one question Yapa, and no amount of wayside acrobatics can derail that steamrollering train, which you yourself helped to load.

        There are two options before you Yapa.
        1. Either admit that claiming special privileges for Sinhalese automatically debases others
        2. Or, write another one of your papers using quantum physics to prove that no. 1 above doesn’t happen.

        Judging from your responses, it’s clear which option you’re gravitating towards!

        Ohoma yang, ohoma yang 😀

      • Off the Cuff

        BalangodaMan,

        Re your post of April 17, 2011 • 5:32 pm addressed to Yapa

        “One moment you go to great lengths to justify racism on grounds of genetic characteristics”

        Trust you to twist the wording to suit your agenda.

        What was proved using Genetics is that your Dictionary definition was wrong at least in part. The proof is on record on GV and no one was able to challenge it other than make unsuccessful attempts to misrepresent what was written, just as you have tried to do above.

        It was the cognitive fallacy on your part and not any compositional fallacy on our part that extended the discussion. Apparently the problem still persists.

      • BalangodaMan

        OTC, No Sir. When you say ‘your Dictionary definition was wrong at least in part’ – it is not MY dictionary. I do not publish a dictionary. I never have. What you are doing, and Mr Yapa, is challenging THE dictionary – many that we can all look up. Already pointed out a week ago. I have already said that the thing you both appear to object to is the ‘western idea of racism’. Mr Yapa repeatedly rejects ideas he does not like as ‘western ideas’ that he says ‘are flawed’ (see how he brings up ‘democracy’ as an example in this discussion). I can accept that as ‘his opinion’, and that he is entitled to one, just as we are entitled to challenge it, and you are entitled to defend it. But to do so you will need to supply some reasoning, some argument, not repeat what we have already established unchallenged.

      • Off the Cuff

        BalangodaMan,

        RE: Your post of April 22, 2011 • 4:58 am

        “No Sir. When you say ‘your Dictionary definition was wrong at least in part’ – it is not MY dictionary. I do not publish a dictionary. I never have.”

        Oh yes Sir, I know that you dont have the capacity to do so.

        What was pointed out is that your reference was faulty and that you twist the wording to suit your agenda.

        It is a cognitive fallacy on your part and not any compositional fallacy on our part that leads you to believe that you have been able to go unchallenged successfully.

        That your cognitive process is faulty is exemplified by your statement below.

        “I have already said that the thing you both appear to object to is the ‘western idea of racism’…”

        Lets start from that statement and put in point form the following

        1. Define your “western idea of racism”

        2. Place before GV The EXACT WORDING and CONTEXT from MY posts on this discussion (copied and pasted from my posts) that goes to prove your contention.

        Please observe that I have put the emphasis on the word “MY” and hence do not fall back on your stock excuse of Mr Yapa said this or Mr Yapa said that.

  • yapa

    “The problem with your statement (re. what the world can learn from Buddhism) is that we in SL are not applying the teachings ourselves. A Buddhist society cannot be at war. Impossible. It is a pacifist ideology. Any society that has evidence of conflict, clinging to material possessions (for example, therefore we need to fight and kill to protect it from being taken away) cannot be a Buddhist society. It may be a Buddhist society only superficially. It is a society that likes to think it is a Buddhist society but actually isn’t.”

    You must be talking of a “P” society that is suitable for you, not a Buddhist society. What do you know about Buddhism, except anything learnt from slogans?

    You know what that particular “P” stand for? “Pon-a”

    Thanks!

    .

  • yapa

    Dear SD;

    “There are two options before you Yapa.
    1. Either admit that claiming special privileges for Sinhalese automatically debases others
    2. Or, write another one of your papers using quantum physics to prove that no. 1 above doesn’t happen.

    Judging from your responses, it’s clear which option you’re gravitating towards!”

    Qk! Very specifically we will discuss it. Ready?

    Thanks!

    • SD

      Ane Yapa, please start already, preferably within my lifetime.
      See,
      I prefer not to have this conversation in nibbana,
      which you get to go to by paying lip-service to budu-dahama,
      while I will have to go deep into “apaaya”,
      and drink bucketfuls of “lo diya”,
      after all my “insults” to budu-bana.

      I confess to some trepidation Yapa,
      after hearing so much “Singha Naada”,
      but because I’m a decadent box-wallah,
      no choice but to “baleng naannaa”

      With apologies for my pathetic rhyming verse, it’s ok. start, start.
      Ohoma yang 😀