Sarath, Kali, Koththamalli and “J Fernando”

You say “Leaving aside your convenient and continued presumptions about the Tamil’s view of LTTE to suit your own arguments,..”

1. What are these purported presumptions? Please enumerate them.
2. Subsequently, make a factual counter argument, based on your list, instead of empty ad hominem rhetoric.
3. State the Tamil’s view that you, a Sinhalese (the name used is Sinhalese), appear to have a comprehensive understanding of.
4. In a debate my arguments would naturally present my view not my opponents view. What did you expect?

You say “note that LTTE was an unelected, rebellion group that over time turned terroristic,..”

The LTTE started by assassinating the Tamil Mayor of Jaffna Mr Alfred Duraiappa. Then they proceeded to hang Tamils on Street Lamp Posts with barbed wire around their necks and executing them with placards labelling them as traitors. The LTTE hence was a Terrorist Organisation from the inception, not withstanding your attempted whitewashing.

You say “I can understand that international pressure can be imposed to get the LTTE to do several things, such as de-band, give-up, reform, assimilate, and any such.”

I can see that your understanding has limitations as nothing that you enumerate above, was achieved through International Pressure. This purportedly powerful “International
Pressure” was TOTALLY IMPOTENT in achieving any Humanitarian objectives as far as the LTTE was concerned. That impotency was highlighted when the UN failed to get even their own staff, abducted by the LTTE, released for several months and tried to keep it a secret since February.

Quote
The UN reported the abduction and detention of its employees to the government seven days after The Island exclusively reported the incident under the caption, LTTE detains UN workers (April 20), which was followed by two more exclusive reports, UN negotiated clandestinely with LTTE (April 23) and UN HQ admits Colombo office kept it in the dark (April 28).
Unquote http://www.island.lk/2007/05/08/news19.html

The North and the East were two provinces that did not have democracy while under the LTTE. The East was liberated and elections held, establishing democracy in the East.
Was that due to International Pressure prevailing on the Govt?

Kali says International Pressure brought about Democracy in the North. The North had elections long before the Provincial elections. It was subverted by the LTTE. The TNA MP’s benefited by that subversion and came to parliament. This is uncontroverted as the paltry number of votes polled by the “elected” TNA members, when the LTTE was dominant, is proof.

Democracy came to the North because the LTTE was eliminated. The purported International Pressure had nothing to do with it.

You say “That, and the assumption that the argument was merely an Off-the-cuff comment were behind my dismissal of your manipulation of the argument.”

My pseudonym is chosen by me and not by my parents. It is meant to attract those who cannot make factual counter arguments to what I write. It has done it’s job this time
too.

I don’t use a Tamil name because that would be dishonest as I am a Sinhalese. What I write shows clearly what I stand for and so does what you and others write, despite their
“names”.

You took refuge in my pseudonym to avoid a counter argument because you had no counter to what I wrote.Here is another comment of mine that you may find off the cuff hence you should have no difficulty in countering my arguments. Why don’t you try your hand at making a factual counter argument? After all, it is off the cuff!
http://groundviews.org/2013/09/19/state-facilitated-colonization-of-northern-sri-lanka-2013/#comment-1060354085.

You say “How else would you know what my pre-occupation was, if you were not pre-occupied tracking what I write about Dayan.”

Come on Sarath, do I need to track you to see the regular postings you make? If you make an interesting observation, I read and comment else I pass it over. Of late, you
have not made any interesting comments for me to respond to. But when you address a comment to me I reply.

“J Fernando”

You have been running away from debates regularly. Here is one of the many you ran away from. http://groundviews.org/2013/08/19/30-years-ago-the-next-page/#comment-1024303320

If you can make a factual argument, I will engage with it. But responding to Ad Hominem rhetoric is a waste of time.

Leaving aside your convenient and continued presumptions about the Tamil’s view of LTTE to suit your own arguments, note that LTTE was an unelected, rebellion group that over time turned terroristic, and was consequently banned. I can understand that international pressure can be imposed to get the LTTE to do several things, such as de-band, give-up, reform, assimilate, and any such. And indeed pressure was applied via various initiatives(negotiations, banning activities abroad, restrictions on travel, fund raising and others, arm supply prohibitions to name a few.) But, it is beyond my comprehension how International pressure can be applied on that banned, rebel group to provide democracy.

That, and the assumption that the argument was merely an Off-the-cuff comment were behind my dismissal of your manipulation of the argument.

My pre-occupation is with quacks and pseudo-intellectuals who are “indiscriminate voluntary vendors of skills, if the price is right” (I had to coin something in view of GV’s aversion to anything that may sound vulgar or uncouth, even if it is a legitimate word that has multiple, alternate meanings). My pre-occupation is because such self-serving “intelligence” by the quacks has the propensity to lead to grave consequences to the society at-large.
Dayan’s lament after the cancer spread to Weliverya is an excellent example, given that Dayan himself provided more than a helping hand for the on-set of the malady.

Unfortunately, on a preponderance-count Dayan ranked pretty high in the quack-intelligence submissions, and the consequence is that it led you to believe my pre-occupation targeted one specific individual – you could not be more wrong.

While on the subject of pre-occupation – I guess it takes one to know one! How else would you know what my pre-occupation was, if you were not pre-occupied tracking what I write about Dayan. That is fine – I have no problem with that. However, thought it worth pointing out.

Off the Cuff – Try one more time.

Kali: Without the pressure MR had no intention of giving the Tamils the opportunity to exercise their democratic rights and it has backfired on MR.

Off the Cuff: How unfortunate that this “pressure” remained totally impotent for 30 years!

Sarath: No – the pressure was contained by the fallacies spread by Dayan, Tamara, and Rajiva trio.

Koththamalli, Sarath and Kali,

Kali contended “it was made to function only after pressure was applied by international community.” The “it” that Kali refers to is democracy.

This is reinforced by his subsequent assertion “Without the pressure MR had no intention of giving the Tamils the opportunity to exercise their democratic rights”

Since Koththamalli is more intelligent than me and has a bigger brain to attest to it, he should not have any difficulty in recognising the above.

As per Kali, the “Pressure” that he adduces to, sought a result of establishing Democracy and according to him, achieved it after the war. My comment builds on that
assertion of Kali and questions him as to why this self same “pressure” failed to establish democracy in the Prabhakaran ruled North and East for 30 years.

Sarath in his wisdom asserts that Dayan, Rajiv and the Tamil lady diplomat, Tamara Kunakanayagam contained that pressure on behalf of Prabhakaran and prevented the
establishment of Democracy under Prabhakaran.

Koththamalli on the other hand completely avoids the issue of democracy and tries to draw many Red Herrings to divert attention from the actual argument. He asserts that the war was won due to these pressures and not because the SL forces fought a war. But these are irrelevant to the argument whether it was indeed the “pressure” that was impotent against the LTTE which suddenly became potent and brought Democracy to the North after the war.

The Truth is a bit of Venivalgeta (a very bitter medicine usually administered as a decoction with Koththamalli) to those who became disillusioned when the invincible
Prabhakaran finally met an ignominious end at Nanthikadal. BTW Koththamalli, according to the UN, Prabhakaran forcibly recruited at least 200 children per month in the closing stages of the war not withstanding the “pressure” (please refer Mr Aquilar of the UN in SL, who disclosed this during an interview with BBC’s Hardtalk)

Now lets get back to the main issue. Did the “Pressure” Kali refers to succeeded in establishing Democracy in the Prabhakaran Ruled North and the East during his 3
decade rule? Only the blind and illiterates would answer in the affirmative. This then means that the pressure was IMPOTENT against Prabhakaran.

Sarath, though you grasped the lifeline thrown at you by Koththamalli with glee, it has turned out to be nothing but a straw. Without delving on my pseudonym which was
carefully chosen by me, you would be better advised to take your own advise and think before you write. Else you would be certain to commit more silly gaffs than writing on a public forum about how Tamara, Dayan and Rajiv protected Prabhakaran!

Kothamalli,
Truly appreciate your detailed observation. Thank you.
I might add that there is even more – If LTTE was that ruthlless and was predisposed to aimless killing, can someone explain why they were wanted to be so impeccably surgical in their operation that was aimed at destroying Katunayake air facilities. Or, the attack at Anuradhapura air-force/army camp.
What made LTTE remain apprehensive and unwilling was the fact that despite LTTE conceding their past blunders and correcting their ways, the Government contuinued to dupe every one relentlessly using the excuse of previous crimes just so that they could continue to avoid addressing the real issues for the Tamils.
Until the Sinhala population is able to see through the canards of the regime and it’s professional “protectors,” the country has no hope of recovery.
As for Off-the-cuff, I guess as the name implies – his comments are made without much, if any, fore-thought – so, don’t take him seriously.

If off the cuff thinks “this “pressure” remained totally impotent for 30 years” he must have been living under rock that is much bigger than his tiny brain. Here are some facts about the ‘pressure’ for his benefit.

The LTTE suffered huge loses at the hands of the IPKF , lost control of all territory they previously controlled and were largely confined to jungles in the late 1980s, It took a huge injection of arms , money and vehicles courtesy of then President Premadasa to
bring them back to life as an effective force.

LTTE came under sever pressure with regards to child soldiers
Amid international pressure, LTTE announced in July 2003 that it would
stop conscripting child soldiers, but both UNICEF and HRW have accused
it of reneging on its promises, and of conscripting Tamil children
orphaned by the tsunami. UNICEF claimed that LTTE recruited at least 40
children orphaned by the Tsunami. However, from the start of 2007 LTTE agreed to release all of the recruits under the age of 18.

LTTE announced in July 2003 that it would stop conscripting child
soldiers, but both UNICEF and HRW have accused it of reneging on its
promises,

It as banned in many countries and their financial network was crippled as a result, contributing to their final defeat. 32 countries have listed the LTTE as a terrorist organisation. As of January 2009, these include.

As more and more countries began to perceive the LTTE as a terrorist outfit instead of a band of freedom fighters, Sri Lanka began to enjoy sophisticated military assistance. For example intelligence information from American satellites

One turning point in the war came when the Sri Lankan navy was able to
sink these Tiger supply ships: “Between 2006 and 2008 we destroyed 12 of
these floating armouries.” What made this possible? “The Americans were
very, very helpful. Most of the locations of these ships were given to
us by the Americans,” Rajapaksa told Greg Sheridan of ‘The Australian’
newspaper.

http://www.dailymirror.lk/top-story/35384-americans-were-very-helpful-gota.html

It is these pressures that really destroyed the LTTE, not the cleverness of our great king Rajapakse and his bothers as some would like to believe.

Kali and Sarath,

Sarath says that for 30 years there was no pressure from the International Community on Prabhakaran, demanding for democracy, in the North and East, by holding elections and easing on the Jack Boots with which he was Subjugating the Northern and Eastern Tamils and Muslims, that he ruled ruthlessly, thanks to the Dayan Trio, who contained that pressure on behalf of Prabahkaran (these guys and gals must be super rich by now).

Is it the reason that Prabhakaran was able to avoid elections for 30 years?
Is that why the UN and the Internationals were absolutely helpless and totally impotent in
dealing with the many tens of thousands child soldiers?

Of course the Tamils, Muslims and the Sinhalese who lived and died under his jackboot was not a subjugated society but an emancipated one as per Sarath!

No – the “pressure” was contained by the fallacies spread by Dayan, Tamara, and
Rajiva trio, and the respect that the Internationals paid in recognition of their academic background, little realizing their penchant for [Edited out]. Now that their canards have found their inevitable exposure, the internationals are increasingly appreciating the difficulties imposed on a subjugated society, not only before the war, but even thereafter. The recent profuse writhing and ranting of Dayan and Rajiva in the Media attest to their discomfort in finding themselves “neither-here-nor-there”.

How unfortunate that this “pressure” remained totally impotent for 30 years!
Did that impotency have anything to do with fear of the murderous Prabhakaran?