“How was MR becoming PM a result of the LTTE? Because the PM is appointed by the President. So what was it in the situation that helped MR be appointed PM when Ratnasiri Wickramanayake an extremist himself was the PM?”

Well, CBK was able to dissolve the UNP parliament because the Tigers had made the latter extremely unpopular via the ISGA, while continuing to refuse the P-TOMS and murder GoSL officials. If the Tigers had cooperated with RW’s diplomatic efforts to form a political solution, CBK would never have been able to dissolve parliament. MR wanted RW to impeach CBK, run for prez, and appoint MR himself as the new PM. When he realised that RW was waffling on that, he went to CBK and warned her of impending impeachment. His reward was the PM post. So the Tigers were directly to blame for the collapse of the UNP government and the subsequent PA victory.

“What I was getting at is, Mahinda’s thinking is influenced by the mythical fantasies of sinhala-buddhist supremacy.”

He has no such fantasies. As Dedan Kemathi has explained to you, and I have shown you above, he’s a professional politician who will piggyback on anything that will get him popular support and power. The same went for SWRD and JRJ, who many think were Sinhalese racists. They weren’t anymore racist than the average Sinhalese, and probably less so as a result of their western education and upbringing. They just played the race card for votes.

So you see, what created MR the president of a militant, united, ruthless machine that was prepared to destroy the Tigers with single-minded determination, was the Tigers themselves. And the popular support necessary — both locally and internationally — was also created by the Tigers themselves, particularly in the last ten years.

“Praba was a creation of racist sinhala chauvinistic policies or acts. This could be the case, I’m assuming.”

Not really. Tamil militancy certainly was an indirect result of the above policies and acts; but more directly a result of the failure of Tamil politicians to reverse those policies and acts by peaceful legal means.

“Judging by the time of your posts, it seems that you are the one who is having a slow day at the office. I, unfortunately don’t get paid to comment on GV!”

If only I was paid for each comment 😀 I could retire to the beach with my laptop.

“The UN and advocacy groups are not blatantly hypocritical as the GoSL. UN and Advocacy groups are trying to make the best of a difficult situation.”

That’s a matter of opinion. The UN and advocacy groups’ lack of interest in prosecuting crimes by the west, or even concentrating on or highlighting them is the clearest evidence of this hypocrisy. The UN sanctions on Iraq in the ’90s alone killed more children than those killed in the last stages of the war in SL.

“Their balancing act is different from that of the GoSL. But the GoSL is intentionally stalling and not interested in equality and freedom for all. When it comes to Sri Lanka I look to the GoSL to take responsibility and treat all people equally.”

I think in the long term the GoSL is interested in the above, but it’s just not an immediate priority for them. They will grant the above, but not at the expense of votes. Once the Sinhalese majority is more open to it, it will be granted. However, as long as the threats and bullying from the UN and advocacy groups at the behest of certain elements in the diaspora continues, the GoSL’s hands are tied. If you expect an administration to sacrifice itself for something that its population doesn’t want, and if you continue to take actions that intensify that population’s resistance, you’re just being clumsy and stupid. What happened to RW will then happen to MR; he’ll be voted out, and the next administration will be even more hard-line than this one. This is still a democracy, and it is the people’s will that matters, not the GoSL’s. You guys are so convinced that this is a dictatorship, that you think you only need to overcome the GoSL. It is absurd, and it is why you will fail. If you don’t even understand whom you oppose, how can you expect to defeat them?

“But sadly the UN and advocacy groups are calling for the GoSL to treat sections of its own people equally. Isn’t that a shame? That’s the really sad thing. Our governance system is flawed and we need to change it. But can we? External shocks may help, to a certain degree.”

It IS sad; but what makes it sadder, is that your external shocks have so far done absolutely nothing to change anything. All it’s done is make the population and their government even more resistant. As Robert Persig said in Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance, there’s no point tearing down a factory or a system if you don’t first change the ideology and thought system that created that factory. If you don’t, the factory will merely be rebuilt.

“You seem to have me confused with Ras al Ghul!”,/em>

“I’m not here to ignore anything, but the GoSL is and some in the Thamil diaspora. I’m always surprised as to how, majority of, sinhalese people criticize the GoSL for corruption, dishonesty, nepotism, favouritism, etc, etc but when it comes to the killing of Thamil people they seem to all of a sudden think the GoSL is honest.”

Well I’m not Sinhalese for a start. But the point is that however dishonest and corrupt we believe the GoSL is, we believe that those behind these calls for investigations and sanctions are even more dishonest and corrupt. It’s the polarisation effect. If you and I are having a civil but intense disagreement, and there were a number of bystanders who might vaguely support one or the other of us, and you were to hire someone to then physically attack me and beat me, even those who initially vaguely supported you will not do so anymore and might even defend me against you because of the unfairness of the attack.

Ultimately, Myil, banging your head against a wall each day just gives you a headache. You need to find a drill and go after the foundations of the wall.

myil selvan

Mate you obviously live in a fantasy world.

“What I was getting at is, Mahinda’s thinking is influenced by the mythical fantasies of sinhala-buddhist supremacy. So he grew up with feelings of sinhala supremacy which also looked down on minorities. There wasn’t anything the minorities did to him or his people for him to have these racist feelings. But Praba on the other hand developed his racist feelings as a result of sinhala racism/terrorism”

What nonsense. MR is just another politician. He was ready to court peace lobby back when Ranil was PM solely to get back at CBK. He was a virulent anti- JVPier but forgot all that when he went to Geneva during Government crack down against them.
He was against UPFA when it was formed but later used it for his own gain. He was at loggerheads with Wimal Weerawansa passing tasty bits about him to pro-UNP media but later found him to be a useful follower.
He is just a politician and I don’t think he harbors such supremacist mentality, its just that given surge of nationalism following Rev. Soma’s death (when Sinhala Buddhists thought they were victimized by a minority cabal in the UNP govt.), he found it fruitful to get on board the bandwagon. MR has no clear ideology except what he seized from the nationalist camp.
You cannot deny it was LTTE refusal to let Tamil people vote that brought MR to power. There were allegations of underhand dealings at that time , but fact remains Prabha wanted to defeat Ranil to expedite his quest for Ealaam
Agreed on Prabha though

“Myil, are you being intentionally fatuous?”

Not at all.

“Of course I mean that MR coming to power as first the PM and then the president was a result of Tiger terrorism.”

How was MR becoming PM a result of the LTTE? Because the PM is appointed by the President. So what was it in the situation that helped MR be appointed PM when Ratnasiri Wickramanayake an extremist himself was the PM?

“Did you think I meant that Tiger terrorists impregnated his mother in Hambantota and created little Mahinda???”

Well some people on your side of the spectrum, the extreme surely, may claim that as well.

“Similarly, we are not interested in Velu the schoolboy or Prabha the smuggler, but Velupillai Prabhakharan, the head of the Tigers; so no, VP the man wasn’t created by Sinhalese racists.”

What I was getting at is, Mahinda’s thinking is influenced by the mythical fantasies of sinhala-buddhist supremacy. So he grew up with feelings of sinhala supremacy which also looked down on minorities. There wasn’t anything the minorities did to him or his people for him to have these racist feelings. But Praba on the other hand developed his racist feelings as a result of sinhala racism/terrorism. Maybe the treatment of the sinhala police towards the Thamil people ticked him off, etc, etc, etc. So, Mahinda was a creation of the narrow minded dishonest history of sinhala-buddhist supremacy. Praba was a creation of racist sinhala chauvinistic policies or acts. This could be the case, I’m assuming.

“We are talking about both men in their roles. Good God, man, are you having a slow day at the office that you’re arguing about such nonsense?”

Judging by the time of your posts, it seems that you are the one who is having a slow day at the office. I, unfortunately don’t get paid to comment on GV!

“As for the above being obvious; I can say the same about the GoSL being hypocrites; just as the UN and the advocacy groups are all hypocrites.”

The UN and advocacy groups are not blatantly hypocritical as the GoSL. UN and Advocacy groups are trying to make the best of a difficult situation. Their balancing act is different from that of the GoSL. But the GoSL is intentionally stalling and not interested in equality and freedom for all. When it comes to Sri Lanka I look to the GoSL to take responsibility and treat all people equally. But sadly the UN and advocacy groups are calling for the GoSL to treat sections of its own people equally. Isn’t that a shame? That’s the really sad thing. Our governance system is flawed and we need to change it. But can we? External shocks may help, to a certain degree.

“My question though is, why only voice the obvious that is most suitable to you and question why others don’t agree with that, while ignoring the obvious stuff that makes you look bad?”

You seem to have me confused with Ras al Ghul!

I’m not here to ignore anything, but the GoSL is and some in the Thamil diaspora. I’m always surprised as to how, majority of, sinhalese people criticize the GoSL for corruption, dishonesty, nepotism, favouritism, etc, etc but when it comes to the killing of Thamil people they seem to all of a sudden think the GoSL is honest.

There are reports that the Mullaithivu GA at the time had told an official of the British High Commission that “at least 375,000 people are in the LTTE controlled vanni. From this figure, close to 300,000 or 290,000 came out into the IDP camps. The International Crisis Group (ICG) who did a report on the last stages of the war said that around 75,000 people may have been killed. This somewhat tallies with the figure of 375,000 with around 300,000 coming out.

The Mullaithivu GA also said that a figure of 479,000 was being floated around. But this figure is an inflated figure of the LTTE.

If according to the 2001 census there were around 450,000 people in the three districts of Mannar, Mullaithivu and Kilinochchi. We need to be cognizant of the fact that the entire population of the Mannar district was not under the LTTE. Mannar town and surrounding areas where, I’m assuming, the bulk of the population of the Mannar district lived was under GoSL control. So it wouldn’t be fair to include them in the list of people under LTTE control.

As for rescuing people. I would say, the main thing for the GoSL is LAND. All those who got out of the way escaped but the others met a sad fate. I don’t think rescuing civilians was the greatest priority for the GoSL whomever they could they rescued but sadly I don’t think that was their priority. If it was then why go to war in the first place?

As for Praba’s parents they were in their 80’s. If they were younger they might have been executed like Prabaharan’s 12 year old son, who apparently was killed in front of the father.

As for the TNA being able to freely conduct political meetings, you would have by now heard the attack on one of their meetings by the Army and possibly the EPDP. So they aren’t actually free to have political meetings even now! LTTE terrorism may be over but GoSL terrorism is still around. How can we vanquish that?

Thambi,

If you did not see the video clip , then no point of having a debate with you , you are more than entitled for your opinion, but I’m afraid I can’t waste my time with you , if you get a chance to see it ,then please write.

Dear Sadun ,

This is exactly my point , I’m also in to the final figures of the civilian population before the war broke , but how do we do , one method is yours , that is a logical argument based on the beliefs , as I said in my previous post , I would like to see some solid facts ! one way to do is , going through the documentation , which is available on C4 video clip. Sadun I’m neither LTTE supporter nor a sympathizer , I love Sri lanka as much as you love, and I’m deeply shocked and amazed , the way current SL government handling the case and dragging it in to further chaos. (by the way did you manage to access the link )

Dear Bundoora,

I thought the discussion was about how many civilians were there during the last stages of war, not the C4 footage. I explained how I or why I used 450,000 and what the 2001 Census gave. My attempt was to expose the separatist Tamil diaspora’s attempt to tarnish the image of SL by inflating the number of civilian deaths day by day without having any logical basis.
regards

That link doesn’t work.

And what’s with the selective belief in what Imelda says. She also said there has been no war crimes. That must be just as true as the 400,000 figures guestimated without access to LTTE areas.

Though you try you cannot keep bloating up the number exponentially it is not working. 40,000 is about as high as even your White supporters are willing to go.

“Yes, it has been proven by a number of times and by a number of authoritative agencies and reports. If you do not want to or refuse to see, that is your problem.”

Could you link to even one of these “authoritative agencies and reports” that proves these numbers, as you claim, instead of merely claiming it as Weiss initially did?

“When someone is alleged to have committed an offence, then it is only after he is charged of the alleged offence that the evidence is produced in the court, and not to the alleged offender. You don’t need to jump the gun.”

Isn’t it you who is jumping the gun? There hasn’t even been an investigation yet, never mind an indictment, or a trial; and yet, you have already pronounced guilt. And contrary to your claim, evidence submitted by the prosecution, must first be submitted to the defense in a trial.

“Of course he can’t simply because it now appears that even the 40,000 may be far below the actual number. Some put it to about 140,000. Of course, you will jump for the evidence.”

And some have put it at under 10,000. So either way, it’s just opinion.

“If and when the court of competence convenes then you can have the number.”

So then shouldn’t you also wait ’til that number is released instead of making unfounded claims, which when challenged, you have no evidence of? It just makes you look lame.

“You don’t have to worry over this. After all, it is those who accuse the other of the offence who should offer and establish the evidence. Rest your mind on this.”

I’m not in the least worried 😀 But since you say that it is those who accuse who must prove, where is your proof?

“True or false, we don’t know but he was not able to display his political skills and determine when to call it a day, and for that he and also the Tamils paid a very, very heavy price.”

Shouldn’t you in the diaspora now prove that you are wiser than VP?

“Oh no, the people within the country, both the Sinhalese and the Tamils, for different reasons, would not be able to nail the perpetrators of war crimes.”

War crimes that you assume happened. So you admit then that revenge is more important to you than the future of the SL Tamils; that your hunger for revenge cannot wait until the SL Tamils are back on their feet?

“The opposition is fractured and weak and it falls on the shoulders of the diaspora and the foreign govts to bring the criminals to justice.”

Isn’t that what the Tigers said as well — that they alone would be the voice and brain of the Tamils?

“There would or should be no comfort of getting away with such horrendous crimes.”

Why then did you in the diaspora allow the Tigers to get away with these horrendous crimes for 30 years?