Comments on: A tragi-comedy? The UN Advisory Panel and war crimes in Sri Lanka https://groundviews.org/2010/12/19/a-tragi-comedy-the-un-advisory-panel-and-war-crimes-in-sri-lanka/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=a-tragi-comedy-the-un-advisory-panel-and-war-crimes-in-sri-lanka Journalism for Citizens Tue, 04 Jan 2011 17:20:43 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=6.4.1 By: longus https://groundviews.org/2010/12/19/a-tragi-comedy-the-un-advisory-panel-and-war-crimes-in-sri-lanka/#comment-26608 Tue, 04 Jan 2011 17:20:43 +0000 http://groundviews.org/?p=4777#comment-26608 In reply to Heshan.

Then it might have been in a dream that I heard a top White House official saying that Julian Assange should be executed……!

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By: longus https://groundviews.org/2010/12/19/a-tragi-comedy-the-un-advisory-panel-and-war-crimes-in-sri-lanka/#comment-26607 Tue, 04 Jan 2011 17:18:30 +0000 http://groundviews.org/?p=4777#comment-26607 In reply to PitastharaPuthraya.

Wish you a HAPPY NEW YEAR!
Well, when my children learn about the history of war in the world, they learn that in all those wars innocent civilians have got killed;that a war is not a game;that it is a serious matter;and that any war is evil! Whether you like it or not the soldiers of any country(including those serve in illegal wars in Iraq!)are considered as heros in that country. When you take up the destructive path of war, as happens sometimes when all other avenues of negotiation fails,(as in the case of Sri Lanka’s LTTE) there is no turning back and there are no excuses! I think that’s why they “train” the children from a young age by “providing” them with video games in which killing is a game!

The accountability and transparency may be greater in the Western democracies as you say, but ‘people like Longus’ also don’t understand as to how we can compare a first world country with a third world country. The imperfections that you see in the carrying out of justice in cases you quote in the West are as big as the miscarriages of justice we see in a third world country, proportionately. In other words in the West you can protest, but there is no one to listen to you;yet you are allowed to protest at your own risk!-as happened in the G-8 summit in Toronto!-Simply saying that in the UK this happens and in Sri Lanka this happens in simple terms is just not a fare comparison. Deception and eye-wash too do exist in the West!

If the Sri Lankan Forces bombed out the whole area with the civilians in it held as a human shield by the LTTE, your argument may make sense. But instead of doing that they rescued more than 300,000 people who were held as a human shield which delayed the outcome of the final assault by a few months. They could have quicken the victory if they just bombed off the whole area when the LTTE continuously refused to surrender, as in the case of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. But that was not the case here. If some civilians got killed in the final assault it was inevitable and my children very well understand that. Your exaggerated concern for this particular event shows nothing but how your living in a country of an old colonial power has changed you into a brain-washed stooge!

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By: PitastharaPuthraya https://groundviews.org/2010/12/19/a-tragi-comedy-the-un-advisory-panel-and-war-crimes-in-sri-lanka/#comment-26515 Sat, 01 Jan 2011 13:29:37 +0000 http://groundviews.org/?p=4777#comment-26515 Happy New Year Everybody! Hope to continue the discussion in the new year as well.

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By: Heshan https://groundviews.org/2010/12/19/a-tragi-comedy-the-un-advisory-panel-and-war-crimes-in-sri-lanka/#comment-26500 Fri, 31 Dec 2010 23:32:07 +0000 http://groundviews.org/?p=4777#comment-26500 Well-said, Pitasthara. As you have implied, at least in the West there is an investigation, even if the outcome is not perfect. Also, if a Western politician goes on BBC and threatens to hang someone who leaks information, that politician will surely lose his job. But this is not the case in SL. Clearly, the SL politicians understand that the average man on the street has low expectations of the politicians. But they (people) still blindly follow. If Mervyn or Wimal wish to protest, 500 supporters will show up in 5 minutes. I think Marx had it right: “The oppressed are allowed once every few years to decide which particular representatives of the oppressing class are to represent and repress them.”

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By: PitastharaPuthraya https://groundviews.org/2010/12/19/a-tragi-comedy-the-un-advisory-panel-and-war-crimes-in-sri-lanka/#comment-26489 Fri, 31 Dec 2010 16:00:22 +0000 http://groundviews.org/?p=4777#comment-26489 I am not saying the western governments are innocent. What
I see is that the ruling elites are same all over the world. There
is no much difference between the people who run countries like US
and SL. The only difference is in their respective civil societies.
When US government wants to torture terrorist suspects the people
who are against the torture raise their voices. Then the government
has to give excuses or investigate few scape goats. In SL the
people approves what the government does. People also do not have
any idea about democracy, humanrights, rule of law, good
governance, accountability etc. These ideas were insterted into SL
society from above. They did not come up from the grass root levels
like in the west. So that’s why when ‘highway robbers’ are killed
by the police and army during a cordon and serch operation people
are rejoiced. When police say a suspect tried to grab the weapon to
shoot a policman when taken to show hidden weapon no body wonders
how a handcuffed man did that not even the magistrate.Whereas in UK
when a poice shooting killed a man after a overnight stalemate the
independent police commission has immediately started their
investigations as to how a man was killed by the police. Pepole
like longus who do not understand the these enlightend ideas, on
which the progress of the human race depends, see them as hollow
words. They live in a very small world. They cannot see what lies
beyond their world. If somebody beleives what matters is the
outcome we should be happy that they do not rule the world. That is
a very dangerous philosphy. I do not have enough space here to give
example of the folly of such a notion. Thinking about the fate of
innocent civilian in a war fare is not a soft harted act. That is
an act of a human heart. I wonder what longus is going to teach
his/her children. Is he/she going to tell his/her children that
killing civilian in certain situations is justified? When the
children ask him/her to give them examples of such situations what
he/she is going tell? Can a simple human being like you and me be
competent enough to classify the situtation where civillians can be
killed justifiabley? You are talking about killing of innocent by
the Tigers and wanted to investiage their killings. No body
disputes killings by the tigers. So who wants to investigate
them?

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By: longus https://groundviews.org/2010/12/19/a-tragi-comedy-the-un-advisory-panel-and-war-crimes-in-sri-lanka/#comment-26471 Thu, 30 Dec 2010 22:20:35 +0000 http://groundviews.org/?p=4777#comment-26471 In reply to PitastharaPuthraya.

Nice as well as hollow words. The same wikileaks have exposed how the US have covered up kliiing of journalists in Iraq, torturing of suspects at illegal centres, how civilian killings were covered uo in Iraq and Afganistan. And you see how the world powers are trying to stifle Assange by threats and framed up charges. This is how the citadels of democracy act, not semi-feudal third world regimes! Simply Sri Lankan people are not interested in probing whether any civilians got killed with the LTTE when the SL Forces crushed them last year! It’s the outcome of that war that is important now. Because the Sri Lankan people know how many got killed in suicide bombs during a thirty year period, and nobody wanted to investigate those killings! So there is reasonable doubt in the minds of the people as to the ulterior motives of the calls for investigation of the alleged atrocities by the SL Forces now!

As there is no place for soft hearted emotions in raw world politics we have to move on, like other more powerful countries because we are not to set standards to the world!

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By: PitastharaPuthraya https://groundviews.org/2010/12/19/a-tragi-comedy-the-un-advisory-panel-and-war-crimes-in-sri-lanka/#comment-26374 Mon, 27 Dec 2010 19:30:25 +0000 http://groundviews.org/?p=4777#comment-26374 Padda, War crimes are very simple to define. Any
indiscriminate, systematic, wanton killings of innocent civilians
including the women, children and old during a conventional or
terrorist war. I do not understnad why this simple truth can not be
understood. Civilian is also simple to define. Civilian is just a
by stander who does not take part in the war fare. why is this
confusion? Killing a bunch of civilians because the government
cannot verify who is a civilian is lame excuse, which no sane
person would accept. We live in a world where everybod conscious
about what others do. We rely on many other countries for economic
survival. We sell our goods to countries, send our people to work
in other countries etc. In addition there is something called
diaspora. Some of the people may no like that. However, there is a
lobby of people agitating for what they see as innjustices
committed by their own governments back in their motherlands while
living in foreign lands. It is a good thing. So that the unjust
totalitarin governments can no longer supress their own people
whithout being made known to the world. If their own government
committs crimes against them if their are no innternational
activist to fight for them who else would fight for them. Who wants
investigated these crimes? The western governments who came to
power by the vote of their citizens, who think that they have a
moral duty to fight for human rghts in the world. The people of
countries like SL can not understand this way of thinking as they
do not have a tradtion of fighting against such causes in their
countries. Take the case of Wikileaks founder Julian Asange. His
bail money was raised by his millinair supporters. His case was
argued by one Baronness lawyer. They all did it against the will of
their own and US governments. That is how the level of civilian
activity regarding the fight against human rights. We live in such
a world.So Padda even if we do not like this world order we have to
accpet it. Who will benefit from such investigation? I do not know.
But probably SL people. It is immaterial who will benefit. If
civilians had been killed by somebody or some innstitution during
war fare they should be held accountable. It is like punishing a
murderer by a court of law. Who will benefit by the punishing
him/her? No person but the society as a whole.

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By: Padda https://groundviews.org/2010/12/19/a-tragi-comedy-the-un-advisory-panel-and-war-crimes-in-sri-lanka/#comment-26307 Sat, 25 Dec 2010 15:01:48 +0000 http://groundviews.org/?p=4777#comment-26307 In reply to PitastharaPuthraya.

Did SL commit war crimes? Who knows? First what is a war crime after all? All the war crime definitions are made about conventional warfare. It doesn’t give a rats arse consideration about the differences in terrorist wars. New guidelines are needed for war crimes. It’s a matter of protecting rights of many against protecting rights of few when it comes to terrorism.

Secondly, who are civilians? How do you identify them? A terrorist with a hidden bomb coming as a suicide bomber with a group of civilians would pose a big question. If all civilians are let in, bomb would go off killing rest of the civilians and army personnel. Now does that come under a war crime or not? SLA probably had no other choice to gun down suspicious people who were “surrendering” with suicide bombs, even if the come with white flags. But at this moment we know nothing.

Thirdly, why foreign agencies are needed to investigate war crimes of SL? Why should SL allow an inept organisation called UNHRC who has no balls to investigate war crimes committed by powerful countries? The judge should be a person who is neutral. And the judge called UNHRC never had been neutral. Unless UN shows that it’s impartial, they should have no business in investigating war crimes in SL, because they’ll work with ulterior motives. So message is clear. Show us that UNHRC is neutral by investigating war crimes by USA, UK, Russia and China if they can. Otherwise they can STFU with their double standards. We can investigate our problems.

Fourthly who wants war crimes to be investigated? Is it US? is it UK? or is it Diaspora? US and UK don’t want an investigation to take place, because that will mount pressure to investigate skeletons in their own cupboards. They are playing a gimmick just to throw out Rajapakshe and get one of their boot licking clowns in to the power.

Finally, if UN investigates war crimes by force and punish the top army leaders and politicians, will it help the Tamil problem in SL? No, Sinhalese will be more tougher, more resistant for a power devolution, and will be more for a unitary state. Another crop of nationalistic leaders will spring up who’ll be even more negative for a power devolution and more pro-Chinese and pro-Russian. Diaspora fails to understand this truth, that they are playing on the nerves of 15 million Sinhalese. If they want the SL Tamils to get their grievances answered, they should be with GOSL, not against it.

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By: PitastharaPuthraya https://groundviews.org/2010/12/19/a-tragi-comedy-the-un-advisory-panel-and-war-crimes-in-sri-lanka/#comment-26264 Fri, 24 Dec 2010 10:53:13 +0000 http://groundviews.org/?p=4777#comment-26264 Yes, I understand you logic. What you say is if previous war crimes are not investigated do not talk about the new ones. So let the people committ more and more crimes against humanity because the powerful nations have got away with mere aplogies for crimes they have committed in the past and they simply have forgotten about the atrocities committed by their favourite. If this had been the thinking pattern of the people in the past what would have happned to the all those innocent people killed in the past. (I do not want to enumearte the war crimes, genocides, crimes against humanity etc made known to the world by the others, who are conscious of the their rights.) People came to know about these horrific abuses because of the people who have the interest of the human race before everything else in their minds. Now the governments/war lords/terrorists/revolutionaries etc. think twice before committing crimes against civilians because of the awarness among the world community about the human rights of the people.

However, I do not say that the mechanism for checking human right abuses is fair at the moment. It seems that the behaviour of western democracies with regard to the human right abuses specially in third world countries is partial. However, with all these apparent deficiencies world has become a better place due to the activites of right minded people. We should not also be so naive to think that all these western democracies talk about human rights for the sake of human rights alone. There are many hidden agendas. (This has to be discussed as a seperate topic.)

Forget about all these things for a moment. If Sinhalese wants to reconcile with the Tamils they have to show they are genuine in their intentions. As long as the SL government maintains that there were no abuses committed during the war it is not going to win the trust of the Tamils. If there is no trust between the parties there will not be any possibility of reconciliation.

During the war and last 30 years Tigers had committed enough ‘war crimes’ or crimes against innoncent people to elevate them to the most ruthless terrorist organization the world has ever known. Tamils, who are talking only about crimes committed by SL government should know that. So the the Tamil community both in SL and outside should try to build the trust of Sinhalese by being truthful.

When a day comes both Sinhalese and Tamils sit together genuinely talk about the crimes they have committed against each other and ready to forget about them for the sake of the their own people then there will be peace in this beautiful island. So long as they both maintain their innocence and righteousness with regard to the whole conflict there will not be real peace for a long time to come.

As powerless civilians our duty is to make the political leaders of both sides to undersand this bitter reality and much more importantaly try to change the minds of people, who think only from one side of the story.

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By: longus https://groundviews.org/2010/12/19/a-tragi-comedy-the-un-advisory-panel-and-war-crimes-in-sri-lanka/#comment-26249 Thu, 23 Dec 2010 15:24:06 +0000 http://groundviews.org/?p=4777#comment-26249 In reply to PitastharaPuthraya.

None of those you mentioned and many more atrocities cannot
be condoned. All those should be investigated using the same
standards in a chronological order. But is that what is happening
now? The rich and the powerful just get away with a mere apology
years after the acts were committed and some that are not their
favourites due to politics are singled out for attack!

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