Full story – http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101218/ap_on_re_as/as_sri_lanka_un

“I don’t have any inability in giving info on LTTE atrocities.”

Likewise, we don’t have any inability in giving info on atrocities by the various govts. The information is out there.

“I’m not obsessed about the LTTE, clinging to them and their antics like children to a lollipop. No doubt talking about the LTTE endlessly gives you comfort, takes away the need to face yourselves and your own responsiibilities.”

I agree. You seem to be obsessed about the Rajapaksas, clinging to them and their antics like children to a lollipop. No doubt talking about the Rajapakshas endlessly gives you comfort, takes away the need to face yourselves and your own responsiibilities.

“So, are you saying that if he hadn’t dropped out of school, he could have aspired to success in the civil service too, like his father?”

No. I disproved your argument that lack of opportunities directly led to Tamil militancy, and you failed to defend your argument (stay focused, Belle!). Unless you can state that your VVT scholar friends joined the LTTE in its early pre-1983 years instead of migrating abroad to study.

“How come there were so many ” delinquents” around?”

But there weren’t “so many” delinquents. The LTTE barely had 10 members in the 1970s and 30 at most when Black July took place. It was only after Black July that Tamil youth entered the war en masse.

My point was to show that it was primarily anti-Tamil violence, and not mere discrimination, that led to the beginning of the war.

“Could you kindly show us one example where the GOSL successfully sued an international news outlet?”
Why should I do that? I’m saying that the international press didn’t run stories about army misbehaviour and atrocities through the 1980s and 1990s because they never could get solid evidence. So why should they be sued?

You seem to have problems keeping track of your own stories. Earlier you said:

Some governments are quick on the draw with threats to sue (like GOSL, and Singapore too). And you can’t wiin these suits because government supporters will crawl out of the woodwork to deny, deny, and deny. International press are wary of being sued unless they have unshakeable proof.

Thus for your claim that the govt was ready and eager to sue, you have to provide evidence. As it stands, your claim is unsubstantiated.

“Maybe the more pertinent question is why GOSL has not sued Channel 4 for a recent report showing photos apparently belonging to a senior SLA commander and interviews with unidentified soldiers.”

Thank you for debunking your own argument.

“Do you realise the implications of what you’re claiming? This means that the Sinhalese voted a known genocidal political party into power in 1989! Do you really want to slander your community like this?”

Unlike you, I don’t have compunctions about criticizing my own community, and frankly I find it quite idiotic for you to first accuse us of not speaking up, and then accuse us when we do speak up!

In this particular case, most of the deaths occurred after Premadasa was elected President. Specifically, most of them occurred after the JVP began to target the families of the security forces, which then unleashed its full fury against the JVP and its perceived supporters.

Premadasa was elected on the platform of getting the Indians out of Sri Lanka, as it was the IPKF that was the primary driver of the 2nd JVP insurrection. Premadasa could only move against the JVP after the electorate was convinced that he would not tolerate Indian soldiers in the island.

“They can even hide mass massacres! Everyone knew. And yet, nobody knew. Not enough anyway to find the evidence to make it to the press.”

As it turned out, there were some erstwhile defenders of human rights in that period who exposed the UNP regime’s misdeeds:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sinhala/news/story/2007/04/070404_humanrights.shtml

How can I have verbal diarrhoea about the Rajapakshas and the Sinhalese considering that nobody knows what happened? Isn’t that why a war crimes investigation is necessary? To find out?

I don’t have any inability in giving info on LTTE atrocities. It’s well documented. But unlike you guys, I’m not obsessed about the LTTE, clinging to them and their antics like children to a lollipop. No doubt talking about the LTTE endlessly gives you comfort, takes away the need to face yourselves and your own responsiibilities.

“mm.. Prabakaran’s father did not lose his job and even continued to receive his government pension when he was living in India during the war. Mr. Velupillai apparently was a district land officer in Jaffna, a very senior position. Prabakaran himself was a class 8 dropout, and reading DBSJ’s bio”

So, are you saying that if he hadn’t dropped out of school, he could have aspired to success in the civil service too, like his father? I personally know two of his classmates from Valvettithurai. They did excellently at school. Why did they migrate?

“The rest of the pre-83 Tigers were mostly juvenile delinquents from broken homes. They were NOT the cream of SL Tamil society. For example, the famous Charles Anthony joined after running away from his alcoholic father in Trincomalee. Even after 1983, the L— took in mostly the poor and uneducated, with a particularly strong aversion to intellectuals.”

How come there were so many ” delinquents” around? Did it not have to do with poverty and lack of opportunities to thrive? Of course, they took in the poor and uneducated, the better off ones fled the country. What exactly is your point here?

“Could you kindly show us one example where the GOSL successfully sued an international news outlet?”

Why should I do that? I’m saying that the international press didn’t run stories about army misbehaviour and atrocities through the 1980s and 1990s because they never could get solid evidence. So why should they be sued? For not running stories?

Recently of course, one gets more such news because evidence is available. Maybe the more pertinent question is why GOSL has not sued Channel 4 for a recent report showing photos apparently belonging to a senior SLA commander and interviews with unidentified soldiers. Shouldn’t we presume guilt? Here’s the relevant report:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2JMB_ltEjV0

“’When did you all find out about the 10s of thousands of youth killed in the late 1980s?’
During the late 1980s.”

Do you realise the implications of what you’re claiming? This means that the Sinhalese voted a known genocidal political party into power in 1989! Do you really want to slander your community like this? Isn’t it true rather that the first Commissions of Inquiry into Disappearances of Persons were set up in 1994, when there was a regime change, and it was then they started finding mass graves? As MC Iqbal says, “The mass graves at Hokandara, Essella, Wavulkelle, Walpita Farm and Ankumbura had also been disinterred on a judicial order. It was in evidence that the people of the area knew the existence of these graves even though they are not known nationally. Yet they had not been acknowledged by the authorities.”

My point in asking the question about when you knew about the state terror exacted on Sinhalese youth in the late 1980s was to refer you to the incredible hold your governments have on information. They can even hide mass massacres! Everyone knew. And yet, nobody knew. Not enough anyway to find the evidence to make it to the press. The exact same thing happened with the Tamils. That’s why the international media was full of info on what the LTTE was doing, but never had info on what the government forces were doing until the CFA period.

“Thank you for proving my point that it was the Sinhalese side of the story that prevailed in the international pressure. Your verbal diarrhoea about the LTTE and the Tamil diaspora compared to your total inability to give info on the State’s handling of the terrorist threat and its treatment of Tamil civilians demonstrates that the Tamil side of the story was silenced.”

Going by your style of reasoning, can we conclude that the Tamil side of the story prevailed, given YOUR “verbal diarrhea” about the Rajapakshas and the Sinhalese compared to your total inability to give info on the LTTE’s handling of the “liberation struggle” and its treatment of Tamil civilians?

“As for the question of why the LTTE started in 1976. It’s a 20 year difference between 1956 and 1976, no? Time for Tamil kids to grow up resenting their fathers’ losing their jobs in the civil service, among other factors, and resenting the fact that they could never have what their fathers before them once had.”

Umm.. Prabakaran’s father did not lose his job and even continued to receive his government pension when he was living in India during the war. Mr. Velupillai apparently was a district land officer in Jaffna, a very senior position. Prabakaran himself was a class 8 dropout, and reading DBSJ’s bio of the father it is difficult to imagine that Prabakaran aspired to be like him.

The rest of the pre-83 Tigers were mostly juvenile delinquents from broken homes. They were NOT the cream of SL Tamil society. For example, the famous Charles Anthony joined after running away from his alcoholic father in Trincomalee. Even after 1983, the L— took in mostly the poor and uneducated, with a particularly strong aversion to intellectuals.

Most educated youth (from the right families) did not become militants after the 1972 standardisation policy but rather opted to move and study abroad, although some members of this “2nd wave diaspora” chose to return and engage in militancy, like EROS or the LTTE’s Vaithilingam Sornalingam aka Shankar.

“Some governments are quick on the draw with threats to sue (like GOSL, and Singapore too). And you can’t wiin these suits because government supporters will crawl out of the woodwork to deny, deny, and deny. International press are wary of being sued unless they have unshakeable proof.”

Could you kindly show us one example where the GOSL successfully sued an international news outlet?

“When did you all find out about the 10s of thousands of youth killed in the late 1980s?”

During the late 1980s.

It is plumb ignorance to talk about the propaganda arm of a terrorist group as being stronger than a State’s machinery. Not to mention that being considered a terrorist group already cripples one’s credibility.

As for the question of why the LTTE started in 1976. It’s a 20 year difference between 1956 and 1976, no? Time for Tamil kids to grow up resenting their fathers’ losing their jobs in the civil service, among other factors, and resenting the fact that they could never have what their fathers before them once had.

The other question about journalists needing clearance from government. It all depends on the government concerned. Some governments are quick on the draw with threats to sue (like GOSL, and Singapore too). And you can’t wiin these suits because government supporters will crawl out of the woodwork to deny, deny, and deny. International press are wary of being sued unless they have unshakeable proof. Where would they get that since their movements were restricted, in a country that blithely killls or disappears journalists?

When did you all find out about the 10s of thousands of youth killed in the late 1980s? I see lots of details of JVP behaviour. But when did you know about government massacres of youth during this period? Do you still have what can pass as proof, after all these years? And yet, the normal daily folk saw it with their own eyes, no? So how come the silence about the state terror?

Observer,
“belle, see you’re being deceptive again! I very clearly stated that the LTTE hijacked the Tamil cause period! No where I said that the LTTE represented the Tamil cause. Which is not true and most here would agree with me. I challenge you to quote my words where I may have indicated such a statement. So you can kindly take back your “metonym” lecture and use it as a door stop.”

I asked about what happened to Tamils during the conflict years. You come out with details of LTTE. What am I supposed to think? That one stands for the other, no? It is only in your second follow-up response that you mention the Tamil civilians.

“It is a shame because many within the Tamil community (Northern) in SL opted for peaceful measures but they were either bullied, silenced, killed or coerced into the LTTE path.”

So what are you doing to help this peace-loving people? I see no concern about this. How can we start to talk about the peace-loving Tamils without getting the discussion hijacked by stuff on the evils of the LTTE? See, it’s not just the LTTE and GOSL that hijacked their voice—you folks are doing it too.

“If I keep reading this stuff I’m going to get a brain hemorrhage soon.”

Shhh, let’s keep this a secret between us—I think you’ve already haemorrhaged.

“It’s fun exposing them nonetheless, so I will keep risking my health… lol”

See—there’s the evidence that the bleeding has already started. You’re willing to risk your health for an argument. More evidence of brain haemorrhage? You’re making up stuff about what’s in the Geneva Conventions.

ditto, I am sometime baffled who do they take us for? They expect to erase a good 80% of our knowledge and the experience we have lived through and expect to subscribe to a careful narrative they have constructed from ancient history to this day. They must think people who live in Sri Lanka are absolute idiots who have no idea what’s going in our country and the world! If I keep reading this stuff I’m going to get a brain hemorrhage soon. It’s fun exposing them nonetheless, so I will keep risking my health… lol

Overall, nice attempt at avoiding the crux of my argument 😉

so walking out of peace talks were reacting? so why do YOU THINK THE LTTE REACTIVELY KILLED INDIA’S HEAD RAJIV GANDHI –

revenge of sonia gandhi was sweet as it was served cold !!!!!!!!!

“And now with these latest attempts of trying to screw SL under war crimes allegations, I feel is also doing more damage and going further backwards in reconciling differences and moving on. We’ll see what happens.”

Can you please elaborate on how war crimes investigation would set the reconciliation movement backwards? What are the elements of “reconciliation” to which you refer? If there have been war crimes, wouldn’t “moving on” involve bringing these criminal elements along with you into Sri Lanka’s future and inviting further trouble down the road?

“But know this, there is an equally or greater formidable force on the opposing side who will take things to the very bitter end. Just think the recent battle that culminated in Nandikadal lagoon as an example of this. May we have the wisdom not to burn down the whole house.”

Exactly, and it’s people like you (who I hope aren’t dumb enough to belong with the opposing side that will take things to the bitter end) who should do something to pre-empt them from burning down the whole house, don’t you think? Rather than use them as a threat to frighten off those who want Tamil issues to be addressed? Because the next “Nandikadal lagoon” episode will happen in the south. It can’t happen in the north due to the militarization of that area and because the IC and Tamil diaspora are just waiting for something like that to happen to add more fire to their cause. You will be playing right into their hands.

You guys think that as long as you keep stoking the fire of making the LTTE, the Tamil diaspora and the so-called Western conspiracy the enemies of Sri Lanka, that you can ward off intra-Sinhalese conflict. Except that the trouble could come from the outside, be it a natural disaster, a global recession, IC sanctions, anything at all. By climbing into bed with certain countries, you’ve ensured that the West CANNOT leave you alone.