Yes, I am Tamil!
Repost This ArticleWhen Weerasena (1)Â was interdicted
And the sun was on fire
Above the textile factory
Shouting slogans
Screaming hoarsely
Brother Nadesan(2)
At the flaming pickets
I was a Tamil
When Weere(3)Â got the job back
Riding on the shoulders
“Long live brother Nade(4)….!”
The victorious king
In the victory parade
I was a Tamil
When Siripala(1)Â was shot
By the squad breaking the strike
Took him in my own hands
And flew to the hospital
I was a Tamil
Both hands punctured
With saline tubes
“Nade, you are my saviour”
Sira(4), you embraced me sobbing
I was a Tamil.
When Kusum(1)Â was pregnant
And dying on a hospital bed
They never demanded
Sinhalese blood
But just “O” negative
Only I happened to have
I was a Tamil.
“Son, you belong to uncle Nade”
the newborn
Was put in my hands
With tears flowing
Yet, I was a Tamil.
Weere, I hear your slogan
Suppressing the shouting
At the picket line
“Slay the Tamils! Give us the peace!”
“Give us the peace! Slay the Tamils!”
Sira, there’s no hospital here
Only a collapsed heap of bricks
Crushed into pieces
With heartless shelling
Kusum,
Oh! dear Kusum,
If you can see the flow of ‘O’ negative today
How I’ve drenched myself in it
Too much to get absorbed
in to this parched earth…
In the graveyard of my race
Where, all our sons
And grandsons were slaughtered
Here I’m struggling all alone
to gasp at my last breath
Yes,
I AM Tamil!
Written in May 2009
###
- Weerasena, Siripala and Kusum are Sinhalese names.
- Nade is a short form of a Tamil name(Nadesan).
- Weere is the short form of Weerasena.
- Sira is the short form of Siripala.
###
Mahesh Munasinghe, “Mama Demala”
[Translated By: Malathie Kalpana Ambrose / Ransirimal Fernando]
What racist, bigoted garbage. This is typical of “peacebuilding” vernacular literature commissioned by well-meaning but ignorant foreign NGOs (the local ones know better).
This poem depicts Nadesan as a altruistic, saintly Tamil figure, wronged by ungrateful, villainous, murderous Sinhalese. Nothing could be further from the truth. Even the most extremist of Siripalas, Weerasenas and Kusums that I have come across, still believe that most Tamils are innocent victims of the LTTE terrorists. The Sinhala society does not see ordinary Tamils as their enemies, and don’t believe there are any substantial racial differences between the two ethnic groups. The Sinhalese “extremists” may hold rallies against the LTTE, Norway, NGOs or the Western media, but they do not ask the Tamils to be slain. Compare this with popular Tamil “moderates”.
After decades of war, there are still millions of Tamils living amongst the Sinhalese in all parts of the country. These numbers have steadily increased despite them having to live with these bloodthirsty Sinhalese. Conversely, there are virtually no Sinhalese left in many parts of the North and the East. Attempts by Sinhalese people to travel/migrate to these areas are fiercely resisted as encroachment or “ethnic cleansing” by not just the Tamil “moderates”, but by the Western funded civil society as well.
One must ask the question if the Tamils are culturally and politically capable of co-existing with people of other ethnicities. Perhaps what might be useful is a study of Tamil Nadu’s bitter and acrimonious relations with not just North India, but with fellow Dravidian states. One could also look at the conflict between the Hindraf backed Tamils and Malays in Malaysia. Further enlightenment may be attained by observing the enmity between different Tamil groups in Sri Lanka, mainly the Jaffna, Eastern, Plantation and Colombo Tamils, and also those of different castes.
Perhaps it’s not the Sinhalese’ fault at all. Could it be possible that it’s not the Sinhalese who are so blood-thirty and evil. Might we see similar poems in this website, written in Tamil by Tamil “moderates” on the sufferings of Siripalas, Weerasenas and Kusums? Personally, I wouldn’t count on it.
“Yes, I am Tamil” !
So what? You want a medal for that?
Hi Munesinghe,
I hope I am right in thinking that you are trying to get the attention of Sinhalese to come to their senses by writing this poem. You got one (two if Brado is also a Sinhalese) But not the way you wanted. I just wanted to write “Up Yours” and leave but decided to add more.
You are creating an imaginary world of yours where are the Tamils are being murdered “Slay the Tamils! Give us the peace!”. The war is over and I doubt there people are running around slaying Tamils or demanding their blood. (A few days ago I spoke to a very happy person in Wellawatta who happened to be a Tamil!)
It should have been “Slay the Terrorists! Give us the peace!” even if you wrote it at right time.
You are doing a disservice to Tamils by equating them to Terrorists. In fact what seems like, you want the separation, you want the divide, for what ever the motive you have. You may fool some people like the translators but I am not buying it. Who are you trying to please?
If Nadesan is a real person (and I believe there are many Nadesans who do what they do not because they are Tamils, but they are human beings) I bet all those Sira, Weera and Kusum’s will give their lives to save Nadesan. I do know such people personally, both Tamil and Sinhalese.
But I am totally off-line if you were speaking for your self? Like in Weera you, Sira your brother and Kusum your Sister? If that is the case I can sadly say that I know such people exist.
If above is not the case, there are doctors, who could help you to leave your imaginary world! If you want.
Otherwise write something that will bring people together. NGO’s might see value in it too.
whaa whaaa keep playing the victim card. you will never get anywhere!
if only you realised i am sri lankan!
what a piece of racism! i am disgusted.
Re: “One must ask the question if the Tamils are culturally and politically capable of co-existing with people of other ethnicities. Perhaps what might be useful is a study of Tamil Nadu’s bitter and acrimonious relations with not just North India, but with fellow Dravidian states. One could also look at the conflict between the Hindraf backed Tamils and Malays in Malaysia. Further enlightenment may be attained by observing the enmity between different Tamil groups in Sri Lanka, mainly the Jaffna, Eastern, Plantation and Colombo Tamils, and also those of different castes.”
If one asked such a question, it would become very evident that there is something in Tamil culture and history that makes them value the importance of social justice and equality. They will fight to the hilt for that. That aspect in their culture is even stronger among Tamils of Sri Lankan heritage. You obviously know very little about what you are talking about here. Tamils are class-conscious and conflict ridden even among themselves? The Hindraf movement in Malaysia is headed by well-to-do Tamils of Sri Lankan heritage who have placed their own lives and privilege in danger in order to fight for the rights of displaced plantation Tamils of Indian heritage–who, by the way, live in extreme poverty in Malaysian slums. In Singapore, the late S Rajaratnam, a Tamil of Sri Lankan origin, was the architect of the country’s policies of equal treatment of the races, and remained committed to that even when his own political party tried to stray from that. We call him the “lion of Singapore” for his determination, courage and pioneering spirit in multiculturalism. Joshua Benjamin Jeyaretnam, also a Sri Lankan Tamil immigrant, was the leader of the Opposition in Singapore, fighting for workers’ interests of all races, sacrificing his position as a judge to stand for justice. He kept struggling on to the point of bankruptcy. Now his son, also a man of considerable wealth, is trying to lead that struggle and courting similar danger to self. I have no doubt that the Tamil diaspora newly settled in the West will in time produce such courageous leaders in their adopted lands. There are lots of other Tamils of both Indian and Sri Lankan heritage in Malaysia and Singapore who have been deeply involved in fighting for justice, not just for their community, but for all other minority communities in their country. That kind of inter-ethnic collaboration and understanding is rare, and Tamils are highly capable in that.
So, you will need to find something else than the “Tamil chauvinism” angle to explain what happened in Sri Lanka. Perhaps your reference to Tamils as “Dravidian” will tell us where you are coming from. It’s that old, fundamentalist “Tamils are Dravidian” and “We Sinhalese are Aryan” racialist and racist track that you are on that led to the terrorism. You haven’t noticed that you Sinhalese are in the Dravidian part of the subcontinent? You’ve forgotten that your community bred with the island’s aboriginals and with Tamils too?
I can understand how your Sinhalese nationalist aspirations of domination over minority groups would find affiliation with extreme and often violent Malay chauvinism in Malaysia, and find fault instead with a community that is trying to survive against that chauvinism. Hey, you guys are twin brothers!
The enlightenment you should seek is your own. Try looking into the mirror yourself instead of asking others to do so.
Munesinghe, please stop what ever the trip you are upto and leave us alone. We have had enough hatred and bloodshed in last 30 years. It is now time for us to reconcile and learn to share.
I kindly request the editor to reconsider publishing such articles.
I’m a tamil of indian origin, and i live a very happy life here in Sri Lanka.
And i strongly believe that it is time for us to shed all differences, and work together to protect our future.
Thank you, Mune.
‘They asked for ”O” blood – speaks SO MUCH. For ALL HUMANITY.
I see Dhamma there., not in the numerous Buddha statues erected along A9 where IDP ”returnees” are getting fried in tin huts.
A happy Tamil in Wellawatte does not represent the IDPs in camps all over the Northeast which has nearly been an open prison. Citing a Tamil in Colombo being happy shows the ignorance of the plight of those in the occupied territory.
A good friend of mine has just been to Jaffna after 4/5 years and met a man who has been nearly starving in 2007/8/9. He told my friend about several of his acquaintances died of starvation – Bishop of jaffna wrote about this in December 2007.
3.My friend found that
i. at Omanthai checkpoint only those who were born in the north were allowed in if they hold foreign passports(that means even those Tamils whose parents were born in the North are not being allowed in)
ii.aid agencies are NOT allowed in
iii.between Omanthai and Elephantpass travellers down A9 have to stop about 5/6 times at army checkpoints. Both sides of A9 are cleared of all trees up to a few hundred metres. Only Bo trees are there under which Buddha statues are erected. All buildings put up by the LTTE are erased to the ground without a trace(all pieces of broken concrete removed). ”Returnees” are along the west side of A9 in tin huts and none allowed on the east side of A9.
Dear all,who wrote and gave answers.
we are srilankan.I am sinhala and we never said or will say,slay the tamil.Everyone is human ind and our brothers and sisters.
But we said kill the LTTE and slay all of them.
Its good or not good.
I like peace and like in srilanka till 60.
Whow bildup theis jathiwaday.
still tamils living every where in srilanka,specially in south and western part.wher is this bulshit talks/we are living with harmony with sinhala and tamils.i am always giving food or any help for some poor tamil peole with me and my village.
Dear “Belle”,
Sri Lankan Tamils numbering about 3 million have given the world most of its suicide bombers. The one billion Muslims pale into comparision. Sri Lankan Tamils pioneered the bra bomb and the use pf pregnant suicide bombers. Is that “something in Tamil culture and history that makes them value the importance of social justice and equality” ? You be the judge.
First they banned the sale of meat,
and I didn’t speak up, because I was a vegetarian.
Then they banned the sale of alcohol,
and I didn’t speak up, because I was a teetotaler.
When they shut down movie theatres,
I didn’t speak up, because I had a DVD at home.
When they censored television,
I didn’t speak up, because I didn’t watch T.V.
When they killed the “Leader”
I didn’t speak out, because I read the “Daily Noise,”
When they imprisoned Tamils on suspicion of being terrorists,
I didn’t speak up, because I was a Burgher.
When they beat up and killed opposition supporters,
I didn’t speak out, because I was not interested in politics.
When they stuffed the ballot boxes,
I didn’t speak up, because I didn’t vote.
When they shooed away the beggers and bashed up the gays,
I didn’t speak up, because I was neither gay nor a begger.
When they put away the prostitutes,
I didn’t speak up, because I was a married man who stayed cloistered at home.
I didn’t raise my voice, I didn’t make a fuss.
It’s funny there was no one left to notice, when they came for me!
Dhiraj,
Please note that said pioneering of suicide bombers took place in Sri Lanka. Elsewhere, Tamils of SL origin have been exemplary citizens. So I don’t think what happened there had to do so much with their culture, but with the dominant culture of the country they were living in. What happens if social justice is a strong aspect of your culture, but your country will only allow you to get it through violence, and your community happens to be a significant minority? Why then, some of them must blow themselves up, no? It’s called getting leverage.
Wasn’t it violence and terrorism that allowed SL Tamils to even get close to smelling equality? Whose fault was that? A dominant community that only understands the methods of violence, that’s who.
I don’t understand this,
“undera demala”,
Munasingha a Tamil?
Is it Muna – “sinha” and rest is ” tiger”?
Poem Translated to English,
From what language?
Traslated by Sinhalese,
Do they know Tamil?
Is the original in Sinhala?
Suppose so,
Title “Mama Demala”,
Does Ransirimal_,
Fernando, live in Canada?
Who did Chemistry,
In Colombo Uni?
How did he, get hold of,
This emotional piece,
From Jaffna?
Kusum, Sira, Weere,
All the faults are yours,
LTTE killed innocents,
Just because of you,
It is all your fault,
Nadeshan Munasinghe,
Not to be held,
responsible,
they are innocent,
they are innocent,
Their killing is faultless,
“Ma atha warada netha”
Priviledge of minority?,
“Ane kale wane wase”
To live in peace,
Accept weaknesses in,
your part too,
No one is faultless,
That is the way to,
Be happy and gay!
“Amathaka kara lamu,
Parani katha,
Ekwemu jathika,
Diyuna patha”!
President Bean,
The fact is that you are not a Tamil so you will be tolerated as long as you do not demand for your rights!
Dhiraj,
According to you, the Tamils are lower than lower even compare to the Muslims around world! you quoted Tamil Nadu as an example that quarrel s with the Central Government and its neighbours; oh gosh; they must be the scum of the earth! First you need to understand the Indian politics and sharing of resources such as water.
Then again, the same Tamil community once was labelled as the privileged community in Sri Lanka. The chauvinists used this label to persecute the Tamils. This guy forgets that, the country was handed over to the Sinhalese and not to the Tamils and they miserably failed to build a nation. What you really say is that, we, the Sinhala Buddhist, can do whatever we want, the rest should lump it or leave it. The Sinhala Buddhist need not to pay attention to the true principles of democracy; rather it is incumbent on the national leader to ensure that Sinhala and Buddhism is thrust upon every citizen of the nation.
Suicide bombing is not abhorrent to the Tamils of Sri Lanka alone; I, as a Tamil, deem suicide bombing is inhumane and preposterous; every Tamil should be ashamed of this past. I am sure that I am not alone on this as the vast majority of the Tamils concur with this sentiment. We all know that VP was the architect of this, and he alone was responsible for this and labelling all the Tamils the same way is cheap. Equally, when many Tamils were savagely killed by the Sinhala mobs back in July 1983, one cannot label the entire Sinhala community of such crimes!
Observer,
It is the duty of the state to build a nation of subjects like the Indians have done. In Sri Lanka, the Sinhala Buddhism is superior and it is also enshrined in the Constitution. The minorities are made to feel sub-ordinates and under these circumstances, would a minority call him/her a Sri Lankan? Why don’t you point your finger at the state? In India all are Indians first and foremost then only one considers one’s ethnicity; it is not the same in Sri Lanka, is it?
@Belle
Thank you for your response. I think your argument is deeply flawed, illogical, emotional and melodramatic, and, if I may add, veritably Tamil.
“It’s that old, fundamentalist “Tamils are Dravidian” and “We Sinhalese are Aryan” racialist and racist track that you are on that led to the terrorism.”
I never said any such thing. In my earlier comment, I actually said that “the Sinhalese… don’t believe there are any substantial racial differences between the two ethnic group”. This is why I objected to the poet saying “They never demanded Sinhalese blood But just “O” negative”.
My personal belief, since you ask, is that the Sinhalese are primarily of Dravidian stock, but with significant genetic input from other races. This allows much variation even within families, and distinguishes us from Indian communities who inter-marry and look quite alike. My point though, was that the Tamils cannot even live peacefully with other Dravidian states, let alone the North. This incapability, I said, was cultural and political, not genetic or anything silly like that. As even North Indians would agree, Dravidians from Kerala and Andra Pradesh are generally nice, friendly, accommodating and peaceful people.
Your comments about Tamils traditionally placing much value on social justice and equality are interesting. Indeed, there have been many such Tamils in Sri Lanka and elsewhere, including the individuals you’ve mentioned.
But you must admit that the Tamil society had happily co-operated with the British colonial rulers’ brutal suppression of the Sinhalese. Tamils greatly benefited whilst the Sinhalese were grossly discriminated against in their own country. One wonders where that famous sense of equality and social justice was at that time. What caused this “ethnic conflict” is merely the loss of these Tamil privileges after our independence.
When I first went to study in Malaysia as a progressive, liberal, politically conscious, peacenik 17 year old, I was shocked and appalled to see how the Tamils were treated. I was brought up to believe that we Sinhalese have done much wrong to the Tamils, but living in Malaysia brought me to my senses.
I was taught to read and speak Tamil as a child. The only Tamil sign in “multi-cultural” Malaysia that I saw was one saying “do not spit”. Compare this with modern Sri Lankan language policy.
Tamils were so poor and downtrodden in that country. The only Tamils at my school were the cleaning ladies. I once had a long discussion with a Malay security guard, whose views were so racist and chauvinistic that they would be banned in Sri Lanka.
Nothing like the Bumiputra policy has ever existed in Sri Lanka. The language quota system (which were only in effect for such a short period of time that it couldn’t have had any impact on the “conflict”) was only a weak form of affirmative action, used all over the world to help disadvantaged groups. This was replaced by the district quota system which was even more equitable, and the under-privileged rural Sinhalese and Tamils (especially the Indian origin plantation Tamils that other Tamils absolutely hated) were both given an opportunity to succeed in life at the expense of their more fortunate, urban counterparts. The Sinhalese upper classes who lost their privileges were unhappy, but still put up with it. You called it, with incredible selfishness, discrimination!
I abhor those who propose normative solutions to our conflict. We need solutions through deduction, not induction. Therefore I welcome your attempt to compare and contrast Sri Lanka’s situation with other countries’.
As an expatriate Tamil and an unwilling participant of the 77 and 83 Riots, I am not surprised by the vitriolic responses to Mr. Munasinge’s thoughtful poem. Pathologically Neurotic comments about how Sinhalese were discriminated by the British, idiotic comments about Malaysian Tamils so on and so forth (by someone who probably never stepped on Malaysian soil or an inveterate liar)……
Already some Sinhalese are begining to paraphrase quote Pastor Neimuller…. (stating with the late Lasantha Wickremetunge…
First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak out.
There is a “cool” saying in the west and I am please to repeat it to the brave posters here….
“Aint Karma a bitch?”
Bardo Flanks,
“But you must admit that the Tamil society had happily co-operated with the British colonial rulers’ brutal suppression of the Sinhalese.But you must admit that the Tamil society had happily co-operated with the British colonial rulers’ brutal suppression of the Sinhalese. Tamils greatly benefited whilst the Sinhalese were grossly discriminated against in their own country. One wonders where that famous sense of equality and social justice was at that time. What caused this “ethnic conflict” is merely the loss of these Tamil privileges after our independence.”
Really? All Tamils cooperated with the British? Or merely the Anglophile elite? And did not the Sinhalese Anglophile elite too cooperate with the colonial masters? If you know your colonial history, you’ll know about British divide and rule policies, and that they often favoured minority communities, and used them as levers against the dominant group. Tamils had good jobs because, living on arid land (unlike Sinhalese), they could not depend on farming for a living, so many learned English and took up administrative jobs. In Singapore, too, the Straits Chinese made that effort to learn English and acquired some power compared to other groups during colonial rule. But nobody took revenge against them for that with independence, like your Sinhalese did. We understood what it meant to be a nation.
By the way, what’s the percentage of Tamils in your civil service? Is it even close to representative of their proportion of the population?
Non-elite Tamils didn’t suffer during colonialism, like the Sinhalese non-elite? As for the famous sense of equality and social justice at that time, Sri Lanka came into existence as a nation with the end of colonial rule. Before that, the issue of equality and social justice did not come into play because they were not a political unit. Don’t get confused with your historical memories.
Anyway, I’m really curious about Tamil involvement in colonial brutal suppression of the Sinhalese. Please do cite me some examples.
“Nothing like the Bumiputra policy has ever existed in Sri Lanka.”
Despite the Bumiputra policy, many non-Malays are in prominent positions in Malaysia. And the wealthiest people in Malaysia are not Malays. How many prominent Tamils do you have in Sri Lanka? And perhaps you need reminding–Sri Lanka is also the land of the Tamils.
“Tamils were so poor and downtrodden in that country. The only Tamils at my school were the cleaning ladies. I once had a long discussion with a Malay security guard, whose views were so racist and chauvinistic that they would be banned in Sri Lanka.”
This is hilarious! As they say, let those without sin cast the first stone! Tamils are not only poor and downtrodden in your country, they have to produce passes to move about in their own land. Innocent Tamils are locked up behind barbed wire, and others are living in tin shacks while Sinhalese are being re-settled where their homes used to be before the war. But, yes, of course, the poor Sinhalese are being discriminated against.
Excuse me, but even the Brits never suppressed anyone as brutally as your home-grown thugs do. Did the Brits ever incarcerate a quarter million Sinhalese?
Malay-style chauvinism would be banned in Sri Lanka? Au contraire—chauvinists have great futures marked out for them in your country.
As for your “modern Sri Lankan policy”, what is that? The policy to recognise Tamil in your constitution, and then make sure it is not actually implemented?
“I never said any such thing. In my earlier comment, I actually said that “the Sinhalese… don’t believe there are any substantial racial differences between the two ethnic group”.
So, then why does one have to be a Sinhalese chauvinist in order to run for political office in Sri Lanka? Isn’t that why the opposition fielded Fonseka–because they knew that he could attract at least some of the Sinhalese nationalist masses, and break Rajapaksa’s hold on them?
Your country has had continuous ethnic conflict since its inception as a nation, and you think the dominant community does not care about racial difference? If that were true, Tamils as well as other minorities would have been given their equal rights a long time ago, and there would have been no need for Prabhakaran to come into existence. You guys are a disgrace to humanity.
“My point though, was that the Tamils cannot even live peacefully with other Dravidian states, let alone the North.”
Why? Are they at war with the other Southern states?
“As even North Indians would agree, Dravidians from Kerala and Andra Pradesh are generally nice, friendly, accommodating and peaceful people.”
I thought you didn’t believe in race but in culture? So why the need to refer to them as Dravidians? Don’t they have quite different cultures?
“I think your argument is deeply flawed, illogical, emotional and melodramatic, and, if I may add, veritably Tamil.”
Please don’t project your own qualities on to me. At least I have an argument. All you have are lies.
Bardo Flanks says “Thank you for your response. I think your argument is deeply flawed, illogical, emotional and melodramatic, and, if I may add, veritably Tamil.”
“Veritably Tamil”"???
My advice to you is…..”Better to keep your mouth closed and be thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt”?”
Bardo…..
I was taught to read and speak Tamil as a child. The only Tamil sign in “multi-cultural” Malaysia that I saw was one saying “do not spit”. Compare this with modern Sri Lankan language policy.”
Ever been to Singapore?
Dear magerata
“A few days ago I spoke to a very happy person in Wellawatta who happened to be a Tamil!”
What did he say?
Dear Belle,
“I can understand how your Sinhalese nationalist aspirations of domination over minority groups would find affiliation with extreme and often violent Malay chauvinism in Malaysia, and find fault instead with a community that is trying to survive against that chauvinism.”
How come something like the LTTE never came up in Malaysia?
“Wasn’t it violence and terrorism that allowed SL Tamils to even get close to smelling equality?”
Would the denizens of Menik farm agree with that statement? Or are you only referring to those Tamils who emigrated to western countries where the Tamil language is not officially recognized?
dear Jaffnatamil,
“Aint Karma a bitch?”
It most certainly is. Was this question directed towards Sinhalese or Tamils (or both)?
Tamils or their leaders who lead them have to give up this dishonest two-piece policy, if they expect to live peacefully with other communities in Sri Lanka. These things should be discussed openly without fear of being humiliated as a regressive or with many popular invented artificial names like “Sinhala racist”, “Sinhala chauvinist Buddhist” who use them as slogans to get undue advantages or to exhibit their progressiveness over others. Please consider followings. (I would like to talk in plain language rather than in big words, so that all can understand)
1. LTTE launched massive attacks and did a massive devastation in many facets to establish a desperate eelam. They lost. Now they are demanding all sorts of extra equalities. What would have happened if they won?
They want privileges if they win and extreme equalities when lose. They don’t like talking of the harm done to the whole society because of their undue actions. They want country to immediately forget the harm they did and give their extra subtle rights immediately. They have only demands, no requests. They think being a minority is a reason for unquestionable privileges and rights. They think they can use hook or crook at their choice.
2. They are demanding extra equal rights, but still voting for an Eelam in Sri Lanlka in Britain. See the percentage, 99+%. How come they expect other communities to trust them? Do they think they have no any obligation or any duty towards living in peace in Sri Lanka? Do they think they can do what they want and others also should do what they(Tamils) want?
3. They use every sort of wrong propaganda against other communities/country and continuously make requests to world organisations to punish Sri Lanka. They pray and work hard for the destruction of others. Again they are demanding extra subtle privileges and rights. I don’t understand this undara demala.
I can give thousands of such examples and facts. The problem with us is we don’t talk simple realities, because many think that we will be humiliated as talking simple things. But the most unfortunate thing is most ate talking complex things with pride, even they don’t understand. (Most are talking semantics not logic)
Tamil propagandists are based on undue advantages and false theories not on justice. Until they come back to the policy of honesty, they will never achieve anything. One should not try to run a race with rabbits while hunting with dogs!
Think brave and unbias!
Wijayapala,
“How come something like the LTTE never came up in Malaysia?”
It’s partly the demographics. Malaysia has relatively large minority communities, which in total add up to 35%. The Malay majority population cannot afford to antagonise the minorities too much or there would be complete mayhem. (The minorities are in solidarity, with at least one, very popular multiethnic opposition political party.) Violence is not an option for the government and so they dance around equal treatment, giving it here, taking it away there, doing whatever is needed to keep violence at bay. Sri Lanka has an overwhelming majority and perhaps thought that violence from a small minority could be easily put down. The government never bothered to control violence against Tamils. Of course, they found out that even a small minority taking up violence as an option could be hugely disruptive for the nation–that their very smallness made them even more intensely and desperately violent.
There is also the psychological element. Indians in Malaysia were immigrants, ie. not indigenous. The minority struggle in Malaysia, even now, is not so much a demand for equal rights as it is for a situation of decent social justice–that these communities be given a viable chance at survival and prosperity and given some cultural rights as citizens. They don’t demand equal recognition of their culture. SL Tamils on the other hand, are native to the country, and thus have greater expectations of their right to equal treatment on all counts.
“Would the denizens of Menik farm agree with that statement? Or are you only referring to those Tamils who emigrated to western countries where the Tamil language is not officially recognized?”
No, I’m saying that the Tamils, during the Tiger years, at least managed to get close to “smelling” equality–i.e not attaining it, but getting into a position of negotiating for it. My point is that the negotiating position was only ever attainable with violence. Once the violence was stopped, as now, they have no power to negotiate for anything–just as in the pre-Tiger days.
The rest of the world is perfectly able to see that the Sinhalese are really sitting pretty in this ethnic conflict—on the one hand, they ensure that the minorities cannot get equal rights except by resorting to violence, and then when they do, they crap on them for being a violent race.
@Jaffna Tamil
The sooner these middle aged, bitter, angry, politically impotent, diasporic Tamils like “Jaffna Tamil” die off, the better it is for Sri Lanka. Hopefully the next generation of expatriate Tamils will forget about Sri Lanka, find other pursuits, and will leave this country alone.
The problem with the likes of Jaffna Tamil who’ve lived through 1956, 1977, and 1983 and then migrated overseas is that there’s no redemption from the abysses of hatred they’ve dug themselves in. Many of them lead sad, lonely and pointless lives in their Western refuges, and the only thing that gives them any meaning and purpose is this hatred.
I’m really not interested in what happened to Nadesan and Jaffna Tamil before I was born. The reasons for their hatred, justified or not, doesn’t concern me the slightest. I grew up in modern day pluralist Sri Lanka, and I had no hatred for anyone. Some of my best Sri Lankan friends are Tamils and Muslims, and the Sri Lanka we know is vastly different to the one in the warped sick minds of people like Jaffna Tamil.
The opinions of these angry old men should not count. What they went through is in the past shouldn’t be allowed to haunt our future. If they want a “medal” of recognition for their “sorrow and suffering” as the second commenter suggests, I could only say “up yours uncle”, Ã la magerata.
What I want for Sri Lanka is peace, stability and prosperity with equal rights for individuals. I think we can have something very close to it once the checkpoints are gone, suicide bombers are no longer walking around with bombs strapped to themselves, and Tamil visitors to Colombo no longer need to register themselves with the police. Many of these discriminatory practices were necessary to keep us safe during the war, but not any more. In time, they will disappear, and normalcy will return.
Sri Lanka will be a better place. I’m certain of this. We don’t need poems that only celebrate negativities and open old wounds. We don’t need rabid diasporic keyboard warriors asking for their pound of flesh.
“I’m really not interested in what happened to Nadesan and Jaffna Tamil before I was born. The reasons for their hatred, justified or not, doesn’t concern me the slightest. I grew up in modern day pluralist Sri Lanka, and I had no hatred for anyone. Some of my best Sri Lankan friends are Tamils and Muslims, and the Sri Lanka we know is vastly different to the one in the warped sick minds of people like Jaffna Tamil.”
Bardo flanks you are a racist idiot. people like you always say “oh some of my best friends are tamil or muslim”. thats very pretty for you, the point is, the moment these peoples begin to demands anything for themselves/community (which is absolutely their right to do) or demand something that you singhalese dont like, they will be attacked verbally for not being patriotic and then will be attacked physically (i.e pogromed). at this point, bardo flanks, will you be in the section doing the attacking with clubs and burning people alive or will you be in the section of people watching it all happen passively?
[yes in previous pogroms a few brave, principled singhalese helped save tamils from the mobs but the point is it was such a small number of singhalese individuals that helped - the majority did not.]
maybe your intelligence is not flexible enough to accommodate the fact that what happened to elder generations of Tamils (ie before you born) has now happened in a much worse manner to Tamils today. the war last year killed and maimed, maybe upto 50,000 Tamils with the rest dumped in internment/concentration camps. you think tamil people in sri lanka are happy??? rajapaksa has successfully created a several more generations of hatred amongst Tamils in sri lanka. and you are telling tamils they should bear no anger to anyone as everything is rosy…this recalls steve biko’s statement, “Not only are whites kicking us, they are telling us how to react to being kicked.”
tamils live in india, sri lanka, malaysia, myanmar, malaysia, singapore, indonesia, mauritius, seychelles, reunion, south africa, gulf arab states, west indies/guyana, USA, canada, europe, australia, new zealand. in all those countries tamils get on harmoniously with their neighbours, there has been no record of pogrom against tamils specifically for being tamil in any of these countries, EXCEPT sri lanka.
so who stands out? it is the singhalese, they are the only people who have had communal problems with the Tamils. and then you are stupidly trying to make it a ‘tamil’ communal problem.
“veritably tamil”…i wonder what would constitute a typology of behaviour that was “veritably singhalese” – it wouldnt be positive, that much is for sure!
^ Bardoflanks, have to congratulate you on that brilliant piece. Deserves to be a separate post on Groundviews I think! Well said.
‘Elsewhere, Tamils of SL origin have been exemplary citizens.”
Are you sure of that? Gang crime, credit card fraud, smuggling, prostitution, drug running, funding terrorism, blocking national highways with children, attacking Buddhist temples, stock fraud.. the list goes on and on. All these aren’t reports from the SL media but from Canada, UK, France, Australia, India… just google and find out for yourself.
Bardo Flanks,
You must a pompous Sinhala Buddhist who hailed in a wealthy family and got indoctrinated in Sinhala Buddhist Chauvinism and you cannot see beyond Mahavamsa. When people like you are challenged, the usual response is that I have Tamil and Muslim friends! Have you ever asked as to how do your Tamil and Muslim friends feel about their Sri Lankaness? Even if you ask, do you think that will give their honest response under the current climate?
Quote:
“The problem with the likes of Jaffna Tamil who’ve lived through 1956, 1977, and 1983 and then migrated overseas is that there’s no redemption from the abysses of hatred they’ve dug themselves in. Many of them lead sad, lonely and pointless lives in their Western refuges, and the only thing that gives them any meaning and purpose is this hatred.”
Unquote
You are partly correct here; of course those Tamils who left Sri Lanka with grievances would harbour their feelings. I know personally people left Sri Lanka as a result of 1983 and of course those who were frozen out of high positions just because they were Tamils! However, what has happened since, that would change their mind; that would make them feel proud Sri Lankans once again? The Sinhala regimes have done nothing to accommodate the minorities but trying to subjugate them. If one stands up say that is wrong, whether one is a Sinhala, Tamil, or Muslim will be deemed as an enemy of the state. The Sinhala Buddhist Chauvinism has been institutionalised in Sri Lanka. The country’s history has been wilfully manipulated to show that the Sinhala Buddhists are the true owners of the Island.
Then you have the audacity to call the Tamil Diasporas harbour hatred!
Quote:
“My personal belief, since you ask, is that the Sinhalese are primarily of Dravidian stock, but with significant genetic input from other races.”
Unquote
Why do you think that the Sri Lankan Tamils are different in this regard? The history tells us that the Tamils lived in all parts of the island cohabiting with the Sinhalese and likewise the Sinhalese. If the Chola invasion had not taken place, this pattern would have remained. However owing to the invasion and the subsequent Chola rule in the North and East parts of the Island, those Sinhalese of North and East became as Tamils; the opposite took place in the Southern areas. In a nutshell, the Sri Lankan Tamils have as much mixture as their Sinhala counterparts! No matter however much you try to apply distance; it will not wash! At least you concur that the Sinhalese hail from the Dravidian stock not as some try to associate the Aryan stock!
I quote from Prof. J. B. Dissanayake in his book ‘Understanding the Sinhalese’ at page 118 states:
“….Sinhala occupies a unique position among the languages of South Asia because of its close affinity, with two of the major linguistic families of the Indian sub continent Indo-Aryan and Dravidian…’ From this, one can conclude that Sinhala in written form could have been made by one or many, who knew both Dravidian and Aryan language. Thus early Dravidian Buddhist priests were scholars in Tamil, Pali and Sanskrit, to make Sinhala in spoken and written form possible.”
Dhiraj,
Quote:
“Are you sure of that? Gang crime, credit card fraud, smuggling, prostitution, drug running, funding terrorism, blocking national highways with children, attacking Buddhist temples, stock fraud.. the list goes on and on. All these aren’t reports from the SL media but from Canada, UK, France, Australia, India… just google and find out for yourself.”
Unquote
Mister; the Tamils have been living in western countries in numbers from 1950s I would say, and up until recently, there have never been bad press about them! I agree that there have been bad press about sections of the Tamil youth in various western countries in last few years. I associate this phenomenon with their childhood; with no fault of their own, they were subjected to sheer violence; they saw nothing but violence. I am not at all trying to find excuses for their actions, but merely expressing my opinion.
On the same token, if you were to transport some of the underworld elements of the Sinhala society to these countries, one would see exactly the same from them! However, you, one the other hand, are trying to score a cheap point by associating such situations with the entire Tamil community! Please do not stoop low as it does not suit a true Sinhala Buddhist!
Dear burning issues, just addressing Belle’s fervant assertion that “‘Elsewhere, Tamils of SL origin have been exemplary citizens” — it’s a patently false claim. Examplary citizens don’t go funding and supporting terrorist organisations that are banned in the countries they are citizens of (please don’t blame “underworld elements” for that because its pretty obvious its the white collar Tamil folks who were busy donating to the LTTE and its terror). Exemplary citizens don’t rip of their countrymen with credit card scams, they don’t kill and maim each other, they don’t block national highways and send death threats to reporters like Stewart Bell.
Before pointing the finger at Sinhala Buddhists please look at your own Tamil Hindu chauvinism, it appears to be seeping out of every pore of your skin. LIke I said earlier, the 3 million odd SL Tamil Hindus have given the world most of its suicide bombers and Tamil Hindu extremists cheered all that violence and terror with all their might. Wonder what the the true Tamil Hindus have to say about that.
Dear Belle,
“Elsewhere, Tamils of SL origin have been exemplary citizens.”
The above generalization is not exactly true is it?
Inequitable Demands will create divisions.
More than 50% of Tamils living in Sri Lanka Live in the South amongst the Sinhalese. They own land and very successful businesses in the South.
Within such an environment the demand for a “Traditional Tamil Homeland” is bound to create vehement opposition to it from the Southerners.
A first step towards Nation Building would be to jettison such Inequitable demands.
@wijayapala
Among many things that were personal, I think following are relevant,
“I just came back from north, It is great that I can visit Yalpanam without getting my ass blown up”, his exact words.
“I am in discussion with your father and brother regarding a business opportunity in the north, why don’t you have a look as well, I think you will love the idea”
“I gave your Mom a packet of those thin spicy crackers you like, hope you like them” (I am waiting for them!)
“I did not vote because I could not find a right candidate” to which I said, “What a waste of a vote, you should have voted Mahinda!”
He replied “are you nuts, and what happened, I know you all were die hard UNP supporters, why is the general too crude?”
Me “UNP? I thought they died a long ago!”
He is an elder I grew up respecting. I know there are many unhappy Sri Lankans too but with a positive attitude we can turn all these around.
wijayapala said,
February 4, 2010 @ 5:33 am
dear Jaffnatamil,
“Aint Karma a bitch?”
It most certainly is. Was this question directed towards Sinhalese or Tamils (or both)?
Dear Wijepala, it was meant for the Sinhalese. We Tamils know what some of the SInhalese now feel and and soon most of the Sinhalese will feel. That is what it is to feel like in a repressive prison state, with white vans, political dissidents being assaulted and murdered. With people like Diraj and Bardo who have been so brainwashed oror who are just plain nasty people things will accelerate.
I am amazed at the idiotic comments on Dravidian and Aryans. These kinds of comments can be heard nowadays among the Sinhalese and the American Ku Kux Klanners. But my friendly suggestion to these self described “aryan sinhalese! Please dont go to a KKK meeting and claim you are an aryan. They will hang you on the highest branch on closest tree. (after having a big laugh at your aryan claims of course”.
And to these so called Malysian Bumiputra experts who claim that nothing like the LTTE ever happend in Malaysia. Have you heard of the “Malysian Emergency?” fought by the indigenous Malayan Chinese?
Mark my words. While these Bardos and DIrajs live the high life in Colombo off Government Contracts and Polictcal connections, the JVP will rise again and this time link up with a Tamil Liberation movement from the North and East.
“Those Who Forget History Are Doomed to Repeat It” as the saying goes. When the time comes, I expect to see Diraj and Bardo in the west, living off stolen money!
See you soon, Friends.
Off the Cuff said,
February 4, 2010 @ 10:47 pm
Dear Belle,
“Elsewhere, Tamils of SL origin have been exemplary citizens.”
The above generalization is not exactly true is it?
Dear Off the Cuff,
You really should try not sound like your name and think before you speak!
Have you lived anywhere outside your homeland? You sound like the frog in the well, impressed with his own voice!
Dirag says:
LIke I said earlier, the 3 million odd SL Tamil Hindus have given the world most of its suicide bombers and Tamil Hindu extremists cheered all that violence and terror with all their might. Wonder what the the true Tamil Hindus have to say about that.
What can I say? The 13 or thirteen million Sinhalese have given the worst bunch of civilian mass murderers (I dont mean the Uniformed kind!), I mean the sarong johnnies who came out in droves in 1958, 1977 and 1983. Of all the world’s clergy, the Sinhala Buddist Bikkhus have the highest percentage of murderers. I can vouch for then being an unwilling participant in the 77 and 93 riots.
And as for the Uniformed kind, no body beats the Sinhalese Armed forces for warcrimes! Shoot people who surrender under the white flag! (Re: Gen Sarth Fonseka, Commander, Sri Lankan Army). Shoot unarmed and naked prisoners in the head and take videos. Re. Channel 4!
God Bless you deluded people!
Dear Belle;
I think you are the same person who wrote as Disgusted/Belle in some other threads. You are still using the hyphened language to highlight the faults of others and to cover up the faults of the side you represent, and persuade Tamils to keep on their hatred towards other communities. Please try to be reasonable, give up your extreme views. This country has suffered enough. Still you are fabricating false stories and theories. You will never achieve anything by doing things with bad intentions. You can make beautiful theories to get the attraction of others to get undue advantages, but they will never sustain.
………………”Excuse me, but even the Brits never suppressed anyone as brutally as your home-grown thugs do. Did the Brits ever incarcerate a quarter million Sinhalese?……………………”
Fine language you are using, it is dripping with hatred. You have forgotten that LTTE has incarcenate them all for about two whole years. You forget such cruel thing very fast?
Frankly tell is this the truth?
……”Tamils had good jobs because, living on arid land (unlike Sinhalese), they could not depend on farming for a living, so many learned English and took up administrative jobs”…………………..
Are you sure this is the only reason? No impact of the colonials favouring to Tamils over others?
………….”As for the famous sense of equality and social justice at that time, Sri Lanka came into existence as a nation with the end of colonial rule”…………
For you sense of equality and social justice were in place under colonials? For you anything against Sinhalese is “social Justice”.
………. “But nobody took revenge against them for that with independence, like your Sinhalese did. We understood what it meant to be a nation…………”
Yes! yes!! very true. Sinhalese took revenge? You all understood what it meant to be a nation asking for 1/3rd of the land and 2/3 rd of the sea for just 12% of your population. That is how you exhibited understanding of the nation. To achieve that goal your view killed thousands of innocent Sinhalese , Tamils and Muslims who didn’t agree with your views. Your view chased all the Sinhalese and Muslims from North. Your view bombed sacred places like Temple of Tooth Relic, Srima Bodhi. You eliminated all other Tamil political parties and impartial Tamil politicians. Your view is responsible for killing a Prime Minister(India), a President(Sri Lanka), and over a dozen of prominent ministers of this country. I s that how you exhibited your understanding to be a nation?
…………….”Tamils are not only poor and downtrodden in your country, they have to produce passes to move about in their own land. Innocent Tamils are locked up behind barbed wire, and others are living in tin shacks while Sinhalese are being re-settled where their homes used to be before the war…………”
Peculiar statement. When Only Tamils are involved in Terrorism, why others should be issued with passes to move about. Other communities did not carry bombs, fire arms or had no suicide bombers. Is it wrong to keep surveillance on Tamils. Do you think to maintain social justice, the movements of others should be limited in the same way?
Tamils are living in misery Just because of the faults of Sinhalese? All the Tamils are saints? There was no one who has an iota of fault , among who are locked up and kept behind babed wires? Were the Tamils in Sri Lanka were treated like this before they opted for terrorism?
I think this is enough. All other arguments are no less rubbish than this. Why are you still doing this? Sowing distrust among communities?
If you sow dishonesty, you will reap something of the same kind.
Please try to be a bit honest.
Belle,
Yapa, I’ll tell you what dishonesty is. Dishonesty is taking someone’s words out of context, fitting them instead into your own stupid, inept contexts, and then taking that person to task for meanings and ideas that you have deliberately and wrongly ascribed to them. That is real dishonesty.
For eg:
You said:
“You all understood what it meant to be a nation asking for 1/3rd of the land and 2/3 rd of the sea for just 12% of your population. That is how you exhibited understanding of the nation.”
When I spoke of understanding what it meant to be a nation, I was speaking about Singaporeans’ attitudes towards their nation. So why are you bringing up Tamil Eelam claims here? Is this not dishonest misconstruing of what I said?
Also, I was speaking of the early years of independence. Did SL Tamils ask for 1/3 of the land and 2/3 of the sea during those early years?
Another eg:
You said:
“Is it wrong to keep surveillance on Tamils. Do you think to maintain social justice, the movements of others should be limited in the same way?”
I think you know very well that my point is that nobody’s movements should be limited, as long as they are not convicted criminals or charged with any crime. I certainly did not mean that Sinhalese people too should be issued passes.
And, yes, since you asked–it is wrong to keep surveillance on Tamils who have not been charged with crime or those who are not convicted criminals. It is wrong to keep surveillance on people just because one’s overactive imagination thinks they may be guilty of something. That is the excuse South Africa’s whites used to force Black South Africans to produce passes to move about their own country. This is how abuse of power happens. This is why courts exist. Either charge them in court or leave them alone to move about in their own country.
How come your country demands that the West provide hard evidence of guilt BEFORE it can demand an investigation of war crimes, whereas your security forces can presume guilt of Tamil civilians without any evidence at all? A case of double standards?
My view did not chase anybody anywhere. My view did not bomb or kill or maim anyone, either prime ministers or lesser mortals. I have never been a Tiger supporter. My view does not condone violence. My view is one of utter contempt for an overhwelmingly large majority ruling community that claims it is the victim of a small minority community’s violence, when all along it had always been within the power of the ruling majority to avoid that violence.
If you want to actually claim that Sri Lanka governments have never had the power since independence to keep their country at peace, then, that is the ultimate dishonesty. They always had that power. They chose not to exercise it. Decade after decade, your politicians preferred to come to power by stirring Sinhalese against Tamils instead of focussing on performing the responsibilities for which they were elected.
So, take your own advice to heart: “If you sow dishonesty, you will reap something of the same kind.” This is what happened in Sri Lanka. You guys sowed dishonesty. Hence, you reaped the Tigers and their terrorism. And still you haven’t learned. You want another lesson?
The next time, the terrorism will not come from Tamils, but from your own community. I think deep underneath all those layers of dishonesty, you know that too.
Dear Yapa,
it is difficult to talk to people like you, people who distort history, see only what they want to see.
Can you give a count of how many Sinhalese were killed by the Tamils between and vice versa between 1948 and 1970? You should start by reading “Emergency 58″ by a decent sinhalese man, Tazie Vittachi.
And after 1970, and how many Civilian Tamils were killed by the Sinhalese and vice a versa? Less than 1000 Sinhalese Civilains to about 80000 Tamils. An 1 to 80 kill rate by the Sinhalese. I bet you are proud!
I cannot say what the kill ratios for the trees, How many BO Trees to Palmyra trees, but I am sure you Sinhalese are leading that score by a big margin!
Awsome, Aiyah! .
Dear Belle,
I appreciate your thoughtful and lucid responses to these irrational/self deluding/neurotic people.
Nowadys the only places where one hears the “Aryan” talk is among the Sinhalese or the KKK. One would think that such a topic would have dies with Hitler in 1945.
There also a level of ignorance about ancient and modern history of the Island of Ceylon that is appalling. One moment they say that Rajapaske unified the Island for the first time since Parakrambahu/Duttagemunu (depending on the ignorance of the writer) and on the very next sentence without a sense of irony, claim that Sir Lanka is for the Sinhalese.
They are quick to condemn the LTTE but are blind to the history before and events after. ANd when one brings up the 58, 77 and 83 riots, we Tamils are accused of having hateful memories for going back 25 years , but its OK to being up Duttagemnu from 2000 years.
You are right in saying that “The next time, the terrorism will not come from Tamils, but from your own community. “. And I will go as far as to say that the JVP will lead the charge and be joined by a liberation movement from the North and East!
Dear Belle,
“And to these so called Malysian Bumiputra experts who claim that nothing like the LTTE ever happend in Malaysia. Have you heard of the “Malysian Emergency?” fought by the indigenous Malayan Chinese?”
It seems that Jaffna Tamil disagrees with your statement that there was no violence directed against Malaysian minorities. Your response?
Belle,
“Excuse me, but even the Brits never suppressed anyone as brutally as your home-grown thugs do. Did the Brits ever incarcerate a quarter million Sinhalese?”
You don’t seem to have heard of the Uva-Wellassa uprising of 1818:
http://www.lankalibrary.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=421
http://sundaytimes.lk/080203/KandyTimes/kandytimes_0027.html
“There is no record of the population of agriculture development of Uva after the rebellion. No records is left about Uva before the rebellion. If thousands died in the battle field they were all brave fighters. If 4/5 of the remaining population after the rebellion is considered as children and the old, the damage done is unlimited.”
- Herbert White, Government Agent
JaffnaTamil, what do you think about the Tamils killed by the LTTE?
Dear Jaffna Tamil;
I know it is difficult to talk to people like me because, I talk plain truth without fear. Many people are scared of talking against popular notions and I am not.
You are talking of distorted history, everyone knows who distorted history, but many don’t talk mainly because we at least now want peace. We are fed up with this unwanted nonsense originated by you people especially so called educated Tamils. We know who distorted history claiming 1/3rd of the land and 2/3rd of the sea of this country for just 12% of the population. Who made a new history of non existed “Tamil Homeland” and misguided , and persuaded innocent Tamils for violence for these unreasonable demand?
You are asking me to count killings. You keep counts yourself. I want to forget them. I don’t want to remind them again again to spread hatred. However, I should say the counts you say are utterly distorted, dishonest bunkum fabricated to take undue advantages. Please don’t tell deliberate lies to the world, who has no proper idea of this problem. You are still using every unethical means to get undue advantages. Please stop this at least now. Your views brought enough misery to this country.
Just imagine, if the Tamils did not trouble the country with undue demands, would there be any killings? Undue demands by the Tamils is the main root cause of this problem. They wanted the extra privileges given to them by British colonials, over the other communities. Is this not true. Please be a bit honest. You are talking dishonesty, when you go bias you don’t see the reality. Actually speaking you don’t like to see the reality.
You count Killings of Tamils with multiplication, but attacking Sri Maha Bodhi is just simple things like ” just Bo trees and palmyrah trees? You think your plain tea is more worth than sacred Sri maha Bodhiya. Please try to be honest. Learn the value of honesty. Don’t push innocent Tamils again into misery with your complicated theories they don’t understand.
Thanks!
Thanks
Dear Belle;
1)………..Yapa, I’ll tell you what dishonesty is…………….
2)………..And still you haven’t learned. You want another lesson?
The next time, the terrorism will not come from Tamils, but from your own community. I think deep underneath all those layers of dishonesty, you know that too………………………………………………
Dear Belle, Don’t think too much of yourself to teach others. Don’t think others are babies to withdraw in fear of your empty threats. We know very well about the injustice prevailing in our society, but your problem is that you interpret it as an injustice towards only Tamils. It is not the truth. It is a common injustice for all communities, due to various reasons such as poverty, blunders of politicians, heritage of colonial past etc. etc. But you just simplify it to Sinhalese community, calling them unreasonable names like Sinhalese racists, chauvinists, barbarians, thugs etc, etc. I think you really know there are so many Sihalese people living in areas like Monaragala and Hambantota have a very much low living standards than any of the Tamil dominated areas. Indian Tamils are living in abject poverty. Especially Jaffna Tamils had a very good living standard than any other community in the country, but was devastated due to unreasonable greediness of so called learned Tamils who persuaded innocent Tamil youth for unreasonable demands by violence. Their pride based on educatio and caste demanded for privileges over other communities and that was the main root cause of this mingle of chaos prevailing in our society.
You can fabricate false theories when you learn to read and write. But most important part of education is to be honest and do whatever a small thing to society based on justice. Any fool can highlight mistakes of others and keep on fighting for ever. If your motive is that, do it and see whether the people will run away in fear of your false threats.
(If you want I will answer your post sentence by sentence.)
Thanks!
Dear Jaffna Tamil;
I have a secret friendly advice for you. Before backscraching Belle, please ensure Belle is not inferior in caste to you. Ohterwise it is against the norms of your community. Your father will give you a good beating. Take care.
Thanks!
dear Belle;
Do you want my sentence to sentence answers? If you want just tell me. Your false twisted arguments will break into peaces. Please tell me if you want. You can not fight against truth that easy.
Thanks!
Yapa,
Here are my responses:
1. “Don’t think too much of yourself to teach others. Don’t think others are babies to withdraw in fear of your empty threats.”
Please don’t hold me responsible for your inferiority complex.
2. “We know very well about the injustice prevailing in our society, but your problem is that you interpret it as an injustice towards only Tamils.”
No, I don’t. I am also upset by decent, heroic Sinhalese people who have died in the course of standing up for justice, not just for Tamils but also for deprived Sinhalese. I am also mortified by the death caused by the Tigers, which to me lies ultimately on the head of Sri Lankan governments and the people who voted for them.
3. “But you just simplify it to Sinhalese community, calling them unreasonable names like Sinhalese racists, chauvinists, barbarians, thugs etc, etc.”
Those who are responsible for this state of affairs are just that. I call a spade a spade. The unreasonableness is not in the names I call them, but in their acts.
4. “Especially Jaffna Tamils had a very good living standard than any other community in the country, but was devastated due to unreasonable greediness of so called learned Tamils who persuaded innocent Tamil youth for unreasonable demands by violence. Their pride based on educatio and caste demanded for privileges over other communities and that was the main root cause of this mingle of chaos prevailing in our society.”
Where in this narrative are the state-organised pogroms from the 1950s to the 1980s, state terror against Tamil civilians? If you must tell lies, at least tell believable lies. Otherwise, people will start to doubt your intelligence.
Wijayapala,
You’re comparing 10,000 dead to the fate of hundreds of thousands of Tamils at the war’s end? This is not yet the moment to compare brutality. You see, we don’t know how many Tamil civilians died in the last phase of the war. (Unlike you, I don’t take government propaganda as truth.) We also don’t know the kind of brutality that Tamils have been subjected to for the past 30 years, thanks to state control of the media. I know just a little. How does lynching on trees compare to having your body parts scattered over several tree branches?
Wijayapala,
“It seems that Jaffna Tamil disagrees with your statement that there was no violence directed against Malaysian minorities. Your response?”
There’s no contradiction here. Jaffna Tamil is talking about Malayan history. I had been talking about “Malaysian” history, ie, after independence. The Malayan Emergency was an uprising against British colonial rule in MALAYA. Your question to me was “How come something like the LTTE never came up in MALAYSIA”.
Yapa,
With regard to your comment to Jaffna Tamil:
“Dear Jaffna Tamil;
I have a secret friendly advice for you. Before backscraching Belle, please ensure Belle is not inferior in caste to you. Ohterwise it is against the norms of your community. Your father will give you a good beating. Take care.
Thanks!”
Haha, I don’t know why I go to so much trouble to discredit you when you are perfectly able to do so all by yourself! This statement shows up fabulously your crude mind-set. And you want to talk about high moral issues such as dishonesty and truth?
I should say THANK YOU!!!!
Jaffna Tamil,
About your comment:
“One moment they say that Rajapaske unified the Island for the first time since Parakrambahu/Duttagemunu (depending on the ignorance of the writer) and on the very next sentence without a sense of irony, claim that Sri Lanka is for the Sinhalese.”
I wonder why they have been silent with regard to your comment above. Maybe they have yet to discover what’s ironical about it…
Thanks for the “backscratching”! Hee hee! Let’s not tell our fathers!
Dhiraj,
“Are you sure of that? Gang crime, credit card fraud, smuggling, prostitution, drug running, funding terrorism, blocking national highways with children, attacking Buddhist temples, stock fraud.. the list goes on and on. All these aren’t reports from the SL media but from Canada, UK, France, Australia, India… just google and find out for yourself.”
Could you please give me evidence of any community in an urban context that is free of any accusations of crime? Also, evidence that in these countries, SL Tamils have significant crime rates compared to other communities.
When I say they are “exemplary”, I am of course speaking in relative terms because no community is unrepresented in crime statistics.
Bardo Flanks:
“Even the most extremist of Siripalas, Weerasenas and Kusums that I have come across, still believe that most Tamils are innocent victims of the LTTE terrorists”
How touching, save that when these innocent Tamils were butchered in the thousands and caged like animals, were they “fiddling while Rome was on fire”?
Dear Belle, thanks for clarifying that. Your penchant for hyperbole is duly noted. Like I said, however, I wouldn’t expect exemplary citizens to be supporting and funding groups banned in countries they are citizens of.
It looks like some people need to know more about what poems are.
Mune, please meet that demand.
Dear Belle;
Please mention separately when you are talking in relative terms and absolute terms. It is very difficult to distinguish them. Better if you can totally avoid ambiguity of your writing. If you can stop covering up yourself behind semantic tricks, that would be far better.Many of the questions will then be automatically resolved.
Thanks!
Dear Belle,
“This is not yet the moment to compare brutality.”
Then why did you state “even the Brits never suppressed anyone as brutally as your home-grown thugs do”? Isn’t that a “comparison?”
Or do you simply feel that Sinhala deaths are less significant than Tamil?
“You’re comparing 10,000 dead to the fate of hundreds of thousands of Tamils at the war’s end? You see, we don’t know how many Tamil civilians died in the last phase of the war. (Unlike you, I don’t take government propaganda as truth.)”
Yes, apparently you take only Eelam propaganda as truth.
The UN estimates that 7,000 civilians perished between January and May. The unknown factor is the extent to which the government contributed to these deaths, given that it was the LTTE who had forced the civilians to remain in the war zone.
The 10,000 figure I gave for the Uva-Wellassa uprising represents only the dead. By systematically destroying agriculture in that part of Sri Lanka, the British most certainly impacted the lives of hundreds of thousands of people- to this day, Uva remains the poorest region in SL.
“I know just a little.”
Your candor is highly appreciated.
Belle,
“There’s no contradiction here. Jaffna Tamil is talking about Malayan history.”
Below is precisely what he said:
“And to these so called **Malysian** Bumiputra experts who claim that nothing like the LTTE ever happend in **Malaysia.** Have you heard of the “**Malysian** Emergency?”
Whether or not the Emergency happened during British times, Jaffna Tamil clearly was referencing Bhumiputra.
By blaming the British for the Emergency, you seem to be again contradicting your earlier statement that the British were not brutal. Here’s what Wikipedia said about British tactics:
The Briggs Plan was multi-faceted. However one aspect of it has become particularly well known: this was the forced relocation of some 500,000 rural Malayans, including 400,000 Chinese, from squatter communities on the fringes of the forests into guarded camps called New Villages. These villages were newly constructed in most cases, and were surrounded by barbed wire, police posts and floodlit areas, the purpose of which was both to keep the inhabitants in and the guerrillas out.
What is your reaction?
Sampah,
Re:
“Like I said, however, I wouldn’t expect exemplary citizens to be supporting and funding groups banned in countries they are citizens of.”
You seem to have some inside knowledge on the numbers of people in the Tamil diaspora who raised/gave money to the LTTE after their countries banned it. Could you please share this with us? There seems to be some assumption that Tiger funds were made up largely of funds donated by the diaspora. People seem to have conveniently forgotten that, since the 1980s, LTTE has led other terrorist organisations in raising funds through running illegal businesses.
Yapa
Re:
“Better if you can totally avoid ambiguity of your writing. If you can stop covering up yourself behind semantic tricks, that would be far better.”
Now I am getting instructions on writing from someone who is homonymically-challenged? As in “Your false twisted arguments will break into PEACES”!
Dear Junsee;
Please stop telling emotional lies to get the attention of others. You think all those things took place in a clean slate? Butchreing and all these wrongs came up into existence from nowhere, for no reason? Please don’t try to make people laugh. When you point one finger to somebody, I think you know what happens.
Thanks!
Wijayapala,
I never said the British were not brutal. I raised questions about the extent of their brutality in Sri Lanka. Why should the info on the Malayan coolonial situation contradict this? You mean British treatment of Malayan villagers justifies Sinhalese treatment of Tamils because they allegedly supported British brutal tactics against Sinhalese? Please refer back to the original context in which I wrote as a response to Bardo Flanks. Let’s not confuse national histories here and run them together for your convenience. Of course, the British were brutal in the colonies. But in Sri Lanka did they ever match Sinhalese brutality against Tamils civilians, for eg, in the pogroms?
As for this:
“’This is not yet the moment to compare brutality.’
Then why did you state “even the Brits never suppressed anyone as brutally as your home-grown thugs do”? Isn’t that a “comparison?”
No, your home-grown thugs’ brutality wasn’t only limited to the last phase of the war. It goes back as far as the 1950s, and incidents of these are known. And what about the brutality carried out by those in white vans? These are known too. What we don’t know is the extent of brutality during the last phase of the war.
“The UN estimates that 7,000 civilians perished between January and May.”
Really? How does the UN know? They weren’t on the ground. Why do they ask for a war crimes investigation if they know what happened?
“The 10,000 figure I gave for the Uva-Wellassa uprising represents only the dead. By systematically destroying agriculture in that part of Sri Lanka, the British most certainly impacted the lives of hundreds of thousands of people- to this day, Uva remains the poorest region in SL.”
Yes, and are you expecting farming to thrive in the North and East after the war?
Dear Jaffna Tamil,
It seems to me that you would do well to look at a mirror while reading what you write. It is not wise to assume too many things about your detractor when you are absolutely clueless about them.
Are you confirming what Belle wrote?
“Elsewhere, Tamils of SL origin have been exemplary citizens.”
If so, let us see you JUSTIFYING the following.
Do you know what happened to Prabaskaran Kannan?
He was hacked to death by a Tamil Gang who thought he was a member of another gang.
Ever heard of the Tooting Tamils – also called the You and Me gang or the Croydon Tamils – known as the Jaffna Boys?
Are you familiar with any of these names? Aziz Miah, Kirush Nathankumar, Manitharn Ratnasingam, Asif Kumbay, Mayuran Srivinayagam, Vabeesan Shivarajah, Mylvaganam, Thanabalasingham, ? Four of them are serving Life sentances for the murder of Prabaskaran Kannan. All the others are Tamil Gang Members.
Around 25 men, from Newham in East London, mobbed six members of a rival Wembley gang in Braemar Avenue in August 2006.
Detective Inspector Andy Chalmers, who brought the thugs to justice, said: “It’s a huge victory and I really would like to get out as strong a message as possible to the Tamil community that we can prosecute these people.”
Two men, nicknamed “Kiruba” and “Psycho,” took samurai swords from the boot of their green BMW and tried to cut Mr Sebamalai’s head off.
Sebamalai defend himself with his arm but the blade sliced through his wrist leaving his hand dangling from his arm.
Seven gang members were jailed for a total of 63-and-a-half years by a judge at the Old Bailey, on Friday, July 18.
Det Inspector Chalmers, who led the investigation, said: “The defendants thought they were above the law – their conviction and lengthy sentence for this pre-planned and brutal attack proves they were not.”
Chief Inspector Derrick Griffiths, who has been involved with the special task force, said there are five main Tamil gangs in London.
Abhya was attacked by members of a Tamil gang. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/6380817.stm
“They chased me down the high street. When I confronted them, one of them cut me on the forehead.”
“All crimes were detected and people were charged but what we found was the level of intimidation was so high that we couldn’t get anybody from the Tamil community to come to court and give evidence,” he said.
Historically the gangs have largely been involved in credit card frauds and extortion from local businesses.
A police operation uncovered that in the past two years alone, credit card frauds by Tamil gangs amounted to £70m.
In Newham, for instance, gang members demand £10,000 to £15,000 a year from shops and businesses while they confiscate cars from people and demand up to £3,000 for their return, Mr Griffiths said.
The police have carried out regular raids to seize weapons from gang hide-outs. While their weapon of choice seems to be samurai swords, axes and daggers, guns have started infiltrating the leadership, some of whom now carry pistols, Mr Griffiths said.
Following the recent spate of shootings in south London, which claimed the lives of three teenagers, a police report identified 169 groups, more than a quarter of which have been involved in murders.
There are many more in UK ALONE including RAPE, the above is just a very small sample from that country which ended up in Court. How many more went unreported due to the fear psychosis, nobody knows.
Metropolitan Police had to set up a special task force, Operation Enver, to tackle Tamil gang-related incidents.
This behavioural pattern is not unique to Tamils in the UK but is common with any other country that has given refuge to Tamils of SL origin.
Can you name a country that has given refuge to SL Tamils, that is not “BLESSED” with this “Exemplary Behaviour from Tamils of SL origin?
To paraphrase you, please tell your stories to “the frog in the well, impressed with his own voice!”
BTW I note that you throw about numbers without any authoritative references
Dear Belle,
You stated Really? How does the UN know? They weren’t on the ground. Why do they ask for a war crimes investigation if they know what happened?
The UN knew as they had people on the ground. ALL those who worked inside LTTE held areas were overwhelmingly Tamil and a few were Foreign (one of these foreigners who headed a UN branch stayed back with the LTTE when the UN vacated that area) and fought for the LTTE. There were no Muslims or Sinhalese or other employees of the UN working within LTTE areas as the LTTE did not allow that.
The Tamil UN employees were responsible for feeding the DATA to the UN and the UN had no alternative but to accept that Data. However, it is a moot point as to how reliable that Data is.
Wijayapala:
The British ruled half the world at some point or another. To say that the administrative polices they put in place were unique to a particular ethnic group, racial group, or geographic locale would be a gross exaggeration. Secondly, half the world did not break out into civil war upon the departure of the British. What does this suggest? In the SL context, while we can consider colonialism as partially contributing to the ethnic conflict, it cannot be the sole factor, by any means. In fact, the more time that goes by, the more irrelevant colonialism becomes. Many of the problems span any considerations of ethnicity altogether and cannot be thought to have any colonial derivatives: e.g. over-sized civil service, corruption, nepotism, lack of constitutional reform, etc.
Correction: many of the problems do not span any considerations
Wijayapala:
” By systematically destroying agriculture in that part of Sri Lanka, the British most certainly impacted the lives of hundreds of thousands of people- to this day, Uva remains the poorest region in SL.”
Yet the British also introduced tea, which accounts for revenue exceeding $1 billion USD per year. It is easy to focus on examples like “Uva Province Massacre” and lose sight of the larger picture. The Japanese did a lot worse to the Chinese during WWII (try 23 million dead Chinese), yet we all know where the Chinese economy is headed today.
Those who talk about Aryan myth conveniently ignore the Dravidian myth. Dravidians can be found only in Andaman Islands according to the latest research. (Nature, November 2009)
_______________________________________
The population of India was founded on two ancient groups that are as genetically distinct from each other as they are from other Asians, according to the largest DNA survey of Indian heritage to date. Nowadays, however, most Indians are a genetic hotchpotch of both ancestries, despite the populous nation’s highly stratified social structure.
[…]
A team led by David Reich of the Broad Institute in Cambridge, Massachusetts, and Lalji Singh of the Centre for Cellular and Molecular Biology in Hyderabad, India, has probed more than 560,000 SNPs across the genomes of 132 Indian individuals from 25 diverse ethnic and tribal groups dotted all over India.
The researchers showed that most Indian populations are genetic admixtures of two ancient, genetically divergent groups, which each contributed around 40-60% of the DNA to most present-day populations. One ancestral lineage — which is genetically similar to Middle Eastern, Central Asian and European populations — was higher in upper-caste individuals and speakers of Indo-European languages such as Hindi, the researchers found. The other lineage was not close to any group outside the subcontinent, and was most common in people indigenous to the Andaman Islands, a remote archipelago in the Bay of Bengal.
Belle, What about the LTTE brutality? Opposing force was met with equal and greater force to win, tip the balance over and win! In war the toughest and the brutal wins. It’s not a tea party alright. Don’t talk about war when you don’t have a clue what it is like to be in war!! If you want to understand what war is, wage another war. Some lesson are worth learning!
‘Really? How does the UN know? They weren’t on the ground. Why do they ask for a war crimes investigation if they know what happened?’
And how does the London Times know that 20,000 died? This figure seems to be popular with the Tamil diaspora. They certainly weren’t on the ground. The UN was to an extent and they were certainly active in the IDP camps. The UN based their numbers on Red cross data and accounts from those coming out.
Anyway, the number could be much less than that. Since no one knows besides the government propagandists and Eelamists..
And just so I can understand? The war was between the Sri Lankan government and the Tamil civilians right? There were no rebel groups involved certainly not the leading suicide bombing, military dictatorship of South Asia — LTTE. Yup, the Sri Lankan army motivated by Sinhala Buddhist chauvinism ran into the forests of Vanni and randomly started shelling the area. Now I understand Thus I see why the Sri Lankan government gets the complete blame for civilian deaths incurred in this weird forest shelling (without cause!).
You say incidents go back to 1950s and imply that they were progressively present from then till 1983. Can you name any violence towards Tamils from 1959-1976? I haven’t yet come across any of these. There must be some… You guys talk about the continuous state pograms which didn’t stop since the evil Sinhala chauvinists took power in 1956. There must be some particularly nasty ones in the 1960s.. Do tell!
And btw, standardization was abandoned in 1977 and Tamil was provided for the North and East for most of Sinhala Only’s existence. In 1977 Tamil was made a national language and in 1987 an official one. So now the discrimination you guys talk about is only that which is caused by the activities of the LTTE (ID checks and what not)?
‘How many prominent Tamils do you have in Sri Lanka?’
Let’s see: Muttiah Muralaitharan, Chandran Rutnam, M. S. Anandan, Shyama Anandan, M. K. Rocksamy, R. Muttusamy, K. Gunaratnam, S. M. Nayagam, Robin Tampoe, Manoraj, etc.
That’s just off the top of my head. I’m sure there are many more successful Tamil businessmen like K. Gunaratnam. Nidhanaya was produced by a Tamil named Pillai I recall.
Also: T. Somasekeran, M. V. Balan, J. Selvaratnam, A. E. Manoharan, etc.
“Also: T. Somasekeran, M. V. Balan, J. Selvaratnam, A. E. Manoharan, etc.”
Also the first ethnic Sri Lankan SLA commander, Major General Anton Muttukumaru.
Tim Tim,
“And how does the London Times know that 20,000 died? This figure seems to be popular with the Tamil diaspora.”
Exactly. That’s why I said the brutality of the Sinhalese side has not been determined yet. There are reports vs counter reports and we don’t know which is true, which misleading.
“You say incidents go back to 1950s and imply that they were progressively present from then till 1983. Can you name any violence towards Tamils from 1959-1976? I haven’t yet come across any of these. There must be some… You guys talk about the continuous state pograms which didn’t stop since the evil Sinhala chauvinists took power in 1956. There must be some particularly nasty ones in the 1960s.. Do tell!”
You have a lot of reading up to do! You should start with reading newspaper archives. I hope you’re not like the solipsist who claims the tree never fell down just because he never saw it doing so. Here are some websites to start you off:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riots_in_Sri_Lanka
http://www.uthr.org/BP/volume1/Chapter4.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_terrorism_in_Sri_Lanka
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_July
http://www.newint.org/issue128/pogrom.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sri_Lankan_riots_of_1958
http://www.questia.com/googleScholar.qst;jsessionid=LnKJzLJG28RVVWYyj1G9PG6WztJ2n3vnlZhtGggSLh4RB12tvH6l!2064974013!2144018255?docId=97784500
http://www.srilanka-genocide.org/timeline.html
http://www.sangam.org/articles/view/?id=396
No doubt, some of the info here is from SL Tamils. But since SL Sinhalese and government accounts are taken as sacred truth, I hope that same spirit of belief will be extended to Tamils too.
Thanks for the names provided of prominent SL Tamils. I checked many of them and they seem to have come from the private sector. That’s not an indication of fairness and social justice in a society. That’s merely an indication that Tamils are talented. To decide whether a society is fair in treatment of minorities and are given equal opportunities, you need to look at their presence in the public sector. So, I would like to find how many Tamils are in prominent positions in the public sector, and their level of representation in the Civil Service. How many ministers other than Lakshman Kadirgamar, how many diplomats? The fact that most of the names, if not all the names you’ve mentioned are from the private sector is actually very revealing–it suggests that Tamils aren’t allowed to cut it in the public sector.
Off the Cuff,
“The UN knew as they had people on the ground.”
Oh, that throws an entirely different light then on UN call for war crimes investigations against the LTTE and also the state. Maybe they know something we don’t?
“The Tamil UN employees were responsible for feeding the DATA to the UN and the UN had no alternative but to accept that Data. However, it is a moot point as to how reliable that Data is.”
Of course. As soon as Tamils are involved, we know for sure that the info is unreliable. Now, if there had been Sinhalese people there, then we would know that it is the absolute unvarnished truth.
So, basically, what you are saying is that the UN knows, but its info can’t be trusted. If you can’t trust a source of info, that means there is no ‘knowledge’ as such, right, one way or the other?
Dear Tim Tim,
This is how the Times of London knew, how 20,000 died in SL
http://www.groundviews.org/2009/09/28/doing-the-right-thing-freedom-for-vanni-idps/#comment-9618
Adding to your List of Prominent Tamils of SL
Chief Justice Heads the Supreme Court of Sri Lanka.
Mr. Shervananda
Supreme Court
Justice P. Ramanathan (Governor of Western Province, Chancellor of Uva Wellasa University, Chairman of Human Rights Commission)
Thamotheram, J.
Attorney General of Sri Lanka is the SL government’s chief legal adviser, and its primary lawyer in the Supreme Court.The President does not have any power to make orders, mandatory or otherwise, to the Attorney General.
Anton Bertram 1911
Chellappah Nagalingam 1946
Edward Fredrick Noel Gratiaen 1956
Abdul Caffoor Mohamed Ameer 1966
Shiva Pasupathi 1975
Mohamed Shibly Aziz 1995
Kandapper Chinniah Kamalasabayson 1999
Solicitor General of Sri Lanka is a post subordinate to the Attorney General of . The Solicitor General assists the Attorney General, and is assisted by four Additional Solicitors General
Sir Ponnambalam Ramanathan KCMG, KC 1892 – 1906
Maas Thajoon Akbar, KC 1925 – 1928
M . F . S . Pulle, KC 1948 – 1950
R . R . Crossette Tambiah, KC 1950 – 1951
D . S . C . B . Jansze, QC 1955 – 1957
D . S . C . B . Jansze, QC 1955 – 1957
M . Thiruchelvam, QC 1958 – 1961
Shiva Pasupathi 1974 – 1975
M . S . Azziz, PC 1992 – 1994
K . C . Kamalasabeyson, PC 1998 – 1999
Inspector General of Police
Rudra Rajasingham
Armed Forces
Rear Admiral Rajanathan Kadiragamar, MVO, ADC, RCyN (Navy Commander 1960- 70) (Brother of Lakshman Kadirgamar)
Major General Y. Balarathnerajah, VSV,USP,ndc, SLAC – Chief of Staff, Sri Lanka Army
Air Vice Marshal Ravi Arunthavanathan – Former Deputy Chief of Staff, SL Air Force and current Additional Secretary, Ministry of Defence
Brigadier E.G. Thevanayagam, VSV – Commandant of the Sri Lanka Army Volunteer Force
Brigadier R.T. Thambaiah
Air Commodore C.E. Puvimanasinghe
Group Captain A. Kumaresan RSP,USP,psc.
Major General Sabaratnam Deputy to Jaffna commander Gen Sarath Fonseka
Colonel Bai Kadirgamar (Brother of Lakshman Kadirgamar)
Captain S. Kadiragamar – One of the first two officers to attend Staff Collage Course in Camberley, UK
V. Parameswaran SLAS – former Senior Deputy Rubber Controller, Rubber Control Department of Sri Lanka
K.Kailasapathi First Vice-Chancellor of the University of Jaffna.
Prof. S.Sandrasegaram, current Dean of Faculty of Education, University of Colombo
Markandan Rubavathanan Linguist and writer, Lecturer at Uva Wellassa University
Cabinet Ministers
Lakshman Kadirgamar – MP and Foreign Minister
Jeyaraj Fernandopulle – MP Chief Govt Whip and Senior Cabinet Minister
Douglas Devanada
and many more
Top Business persons
Kandiah (Ken) Balendra – Chairman, Brandix Lanka Ltd. and Ceylon Tobacco company. Former Chairman of John Keells Holdings Ltd., Bank of Ceylon, Ceylon Chamber of Commerce, etc.
Raj Selvaskandan A lawyer by profession. CEO of CT Properties that is building the GS Tower and Empire.
Ratna Sivaratnam Retired Chairman/CEO/Managing Director of Aitken Spence – a leading Blue chip conglomerate
Subramaniam Mahadevan & Sinnathamby Rajandram – The two founders of Sri Lankan conglomerate Capital Maharaja.
There have been many in the Diplomatic Service as well
Besides the above, which is just a sample, there are many successful professionals that has and are practicing all over the Island today
Also, Justice Deshamanya Manicavasagar Vaithalingam, Puisne Justice, Chancellor of the University of Jaffna and Chairman of the Commercial Bank of Ceylon.
Dear Belle,
There is a difference between your statement of How does the UN know? They weren’t on the ground. and mine The UN knew as they had people on the ground unless of course the Grammar in the English language can be changed to suit your view.
What I did was to correct your incorrect statement as the Facts were different. You could verify it with the UN if you don’t believe me.
If you did that by error it’s just a simple mistake but if done on purpose it would be a Deliberate Lie. I wonder which, because now you have flown off the handle without accepting the mistake with grace.
Tamils who were employed by the UN were mostly locals who lived in the area. They had their loved ones living under the LTTE. Can you point out a SINGLE Tamil who was able to speak out their mind while living within the control of the LTTE?
Ms. Rajani Thiranagama (a Tamil) was a former LTTE, and you may know what her fate was when she spoke out.
It would have been a VERY BRAVE Tamil, who could have reported EVERYTHING that went on inside LTTE area as the “absolute unvarnished truth” . Anybody other than a Die Hard LTTE supporter would be naive enough to believe that they could.
Dear Alpha,
“Yet the British also introduced tea, which accounts for revenue exceeding $1 billion USD per year.”
Yes they did but they Destroyed a self sufficient Agricultural Economy that exported food.
Today we have to import our food. So which would you think a country would prefer?
Off the Cuff,
Thanks for the list of prominent Tamils in SL public sector. Good to know that there were at least some of them, and who they are. A remarkably short list though, and many go back to 1950s and even colonial period. You have between 3-4 million Tamils, right? I could come up with a longer list of prominent Tamils of SL origin in Singapore public sector, and there are only at most 150 thousand here.
Dear Belle,
I hope you read the Last sentance of my post. I have clearly stated it is “just a sample”. Don’t you read before you comment?
The List I posted contains sufficient information to challenge anyone who insists that there is ETHNIC discrimination in SL and includes the Head of one of the three branches of Govt.
I was not in competition with you to produce the longest list. Sorry if I gave you that impression. The list already has about 50 names, which is long enough for the purpose at hand.
I saw your taunt to Tim Tim only after I made my comment. Mine was a response to Tim Tim not to yours.
Thanks for those links, Belle. I’ve read most of them though. And they don’t answer my question about pogroms between 1959 and 1976. The 1958 incidents were certainly bad but they didn’t have a successor till the late-70s AFTER the separatist movement had begun. No, this doesn’t justify the 1977 and 1983 riots but this shows a correlation between the separatist movement and the later riots.
Yes, there was discrimination against Tamils in the 1960s and 1970s but this wasn’t unique to Sri Lanka. There was discrimination against African Americans in the United States too in this time. By the late-70s, there were slight moves to mend this. Unfortunately the Separatist movement obscured and dampened this.
Still standardization was ended in 1977, Tamil was made a national language the same year and an offical one in 1987. The factors of discrimination during the 1960s and 1970s were thus addressed.
What we have now is the discrimination caused by the threat of the LTTE. Do you see then that it’s not the same conflict as it was before the LTTE?
Tim Tim,
Historically the four major incidents of anti-Tamil violence (1956, 1958, 1977, 1983) took place under just TWO leaders: SWRD Bandaranaike and JR Jayawardene. As far as I know, all the so-called historians and experts have missed this simple observation, instead explaining the violence as systematic or inherent in Sinhala behavior when the trend suggested that leadership/regime had a major role to play.
There was no major anti-minority violence under the Senanayakes. Under Mrs. B who was in power for 13 years (compared to SWRD who accomplished 2 pogroms in only 3 years of power) the only two noteworthy incidents were the suppression of 1961 Satyagraha and 1974 International Tamil Conference. Both of these incidents involved the security forces, not govt-backed hooligans, and casualties were minimal compared to what happened under SWRD and JR. They also did not affect the entire Tamil community, just the participants at those specific events.
Belle is correct about one thing- minorities have suffered in other places but often have not been subjected to this sort of violence. Under JR the anti-Tamil atmosphere he deliberately created led to the war which he was unable to control.
Yapa:
“Please stop telling emotional lies to get the attention of others. You think all those things took place in a clean slate? Butchreing and all these wrongs came up into existence from nowhere, for no reason? Please don’t try to make people laugh. When you point one finger to somebody, I think you know what happens.”
Who is getting emotional here? When the SG of the UN flew over the devastated area, he remarked that he had never seen such destruction and devastation ever. This is just one of many remarks in a war without witnesses. Of course, I won’t blame you totally. You, like many others in SL, were fed with news that the SL regime wanted you to hear. So when the truth bites, the likes of you jump like garden fleas to accuse others of cooking up stories. If you have a penchant for burying head deep into the sand and be oblivious of what actually is happening around you, you hardly have any qualification to lecture me.
Wijayapala,,,,
I am glad you are beginning to use Google and Wikipedia. I hope your mind will be opened by these 21st Century tools. I can aso give you another instance of British Brtutality. The Mau Mau Rebellian in Kenya, which is in Africa. I hope you use Google and Wikipedia again.
There is no contradiction between Belle and Me. (and ulike Yapa, I thank you for keeping the conversation clean). I am going to try to make at clear as posissible so that even you can understand it. Belle was responding your comment that British were never as brutal the Sinhalese as the Sinhalese are to the Tamils. I was responding someone’s comments about how the minorities in Malaya was docile and accepted everything. Two different responses to two different question.
I hope you get it now. Otherwise I suggest that you Google some more till you understand.
Good Luck, my Friend!
<>>
I mourn for them too. And I mourn for the sinhalese, the burgers the muslims killed, not just by the LTTE, but during the JVP rebellion and Sinhalese killed by the Rajapakse Regime.
Its Sad. They say, Sri Lanka and Haiti are the only countries in the world were the clock moves backwards. Unless people like you , understand whats going on instead of living in your neurotic past start winding the clock forwards, the people of this island are doomed to relive the past over and over again.
Hi Belle,
<>
Poor Yapa’s mind must be fantasizing feverishly. We can only pray for him!
<<<Off the Cuff said,
February 6, 2010 @ 11:21 pm
<<>>
Of course you can find anecdotes anywhere. As Belle said you can always find bad elements in any society. But if you have been to London or Scarborough in Toronto, you will find the Tamil businesses prospering and Tamils working in banks, Government offices etc. Just sitting in front of a PC and doing google seaches on Tamil Criminal elements in the west will bring up some names.
Using those google searches to broadbrush that tamils are criminals shows a predisposed prejudice.
There is a great quote that would apply to people like you,,,,,
“none so blind as those who cannot see”
I live in the west and go to Toronto and London at least one a year and I feel safer in my new adopted land and in the UK and Canada than I have ever felt in Sri Lanka, the land of my birth.
I suggest that till you see and experience the Tamils in the west, I suggest that you speal little on that topic as “It is better to be thought a fool than yo speak and remove all doubt”
Tiny Tim, I suggest that you read up your history…. I am shocked that you have no knowledge of what went on in YOUR OWN COUNTRY!!!!!!
I
I will give you two examples….. Satyagraha Feb 21, 1961. Yes as the name says, it was a Non Violent Protest. And the Sri Lankan Army and Police literally bashed the heads of the Tamis. http://pact.lk/20-february-1961/
World tamil Congress 1974, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1974_Tamil_conference_incident
These are just two incidents that cmae up. There are many many more and you can do the research of you want to learn.
Dear wijayapala
I replied to Tiny Tim before reading your response. Thank you for being honest and admitting those two incidents. There among prominent ones and did untold damage to the Tamil Morale.
And started Tamils on the path to Prabakaran. Unless the Sinhalese Leadership changes course, there will be newer generations of Prabakarans.
Its up to the Sinhalse leadership to offer the olive branch. They are theones with the military, economic and political power. The Tamil leadership now has nothing to offer other than empty rhetoric. So asking that Tamils for anything knowing they are not in a position to do anything is just hypocritical and futile.
Wijeyapala,
However, you say that….
<>
That is such an ignorant and unfeeling statement, I can only repeat the saying…
“none so blind as those who cannot see”. The Sinhalese live in a different planet that the rest of the world.
Dear Jaffna Tamil,
You made some noise when I commented that a sweeping statement made by Belle quote, “Elsewhere, Tamils of SL origin have been exemplary citizens.” Unquote, is false in your post of February 5, 2010 @ 6:32 pm
I replied you with several factual instances where the DEPRAVED behaviour of SL Tamils resulted in Court convictions and statements from the UK Police that the Metropolitan Police had to set up a special task force, Operation Enver, to tackle Tamil gang-related incidents. on February 6, 2010 @ 11:21 pm
The Police also stated that Tamil Gangs were responsible for Extortion, Credit Card Fraud, Car Theft and a very high level of INTIMIDATION of the Tamil Community that prevents them from coming forward to give evidence.
Here is the case of Gang Rape by SL Tamils that I referred to in my earlier post. In the UK, two Tamil youths were convicted by court for gang rape of a female University Student (http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/newshome/Rape-victim-speak-out-as.5431170.jp)
Would like to hear from you, with the same alacrity, that you displayed on the 5th of February, when you decided to mount your High Horse.
Dear Jaffna Tamil,
“I can aso give you another instance of British Brtutality. The Mau Mau Rebellian in Kenya, which is in Africa.”
Thank you again for proving Belle wrong about his statement regarding British brutality.
Jaffna Tamil;
Good that you started a tuition class to teach others, I appreciate it. At least you will be disciplined after being a teacher.
However, I smell some unusual understanding between you and Belle, What is it…………………?
You don’t like to respond to yapa, because he doesn’t keep the conversation clean….eh…? You are very clean in conversations………….., having a mindset to draw prejudiced conclusions based on a few personal experience you faced at your high class school and at the trip to Jaffna with your highly educated father( You say you experienced them, but who knows they can be fabricated too).
Like most eelam propagandists, you also think when a simple mistake happens against you, the sky has fallen upon you.
Thanks!
Off the Cuff:
I have no idea what you are on about. The land is still arable. Refer to this link: http://www.agridept.gov.lk/other_pages.php?heading=Uva%20Province
With the use of modern technology, the yield could easily be maximized to surpass any output produced during British times. Instead of crying about what the British did, why don’t you provide some technology to those farmers?
Dear Alpha,
Of course you don’t have any idea of precolonial SL Agriculture, otherwise you would not be posting comments like you did about the Tea economy the British introduced. When you decide to look at Colonial History and praise what they did, you should also have the objectivity to look at what they destroyed.
Did you not know that Sri Lanka was known as the Granary of the East in precolonial times? That was the Agricultural Economy that was destroyed by the Colonials.
What was better, to be able to meet the total requirement of food and Export the surplus or export Tea and buy food that is insufficient even to meet local demand?
Alpha,
The website you provided does not mention anything about Uva Province’s current agricultural capacity or output. It only has a list of “Aims” as to what the Department of Agriculture hopes to achieve.
I encourage you to take a simple drive through Uva (aney, it is quite far from the Colombo nightclubs, but you can take a side trip to Batticaloa/Paduvaankarai and tell us how much the Tamils are suffering there) and see how arable the land is with your own eyes.
Dear Jaffna Tamil
“Thank you for being honest and admitting those two incidents. There among prominent ones and did untold damage to the Tamil Morale.”
Forgive me, but I think the damage was limited mostly to the Tamil nationalist cause and did not affect Tamils living outside of Jaffna (I am sorry that I do not see Jaffna as the center of the Universe).
Compare the 9 accidental Tamil deaths at the 1974 conference to the ***15,000*** intentional Sinhala killings during the 1971 JVP uprising, and you’ll have a tough time arguing that Mrs. B was harder to the Tamils than her fellow Sinhalese.
“Its up to the Sinhalse leadership to offer the olive branch. They are theones with the military, economic and political power… So asking that Tamils for anything knowing they are not in a position to do anything is just hypocritical and futile.”
Here I agree with you and disagree with some other people here. We have to offer the olive branch.
Wijayapala:
Read more carefully. Why try to play the fool when what’s written is clearly visible to everyone?
Mission.
To provide maximum support to develop Uva Province, maintaining a high standard of co-ordination and management to improve the living standard of the Uva farming community.
Aims
1. Increase production capacity in 9000 hectares of land utilize for agricultural production by proper soil and water management practices.
2. Increase the production and quality of crops such as Paddy, Maize, Red Onion, Ground nut, chillse, Kurakkan, Mango, Pineapple, Orange, Cowpea,Ginger , Banana, Papaw, Potato, and Vegetables selected for the national requirement.
3. Production of seed and planting material.
4. To minimize post harvest losses in fruits and vegetable from 35% to 10%.
5. Increase the contribution of women and young farmers” clubs to generate more job opportunities.
6. Increase the income of Agri Producers by introducing industries producing high quality products
————–
Look at number 4. It refers to present yields.
I am aware of your earlier idiotic statement, that the British prevented agriculture in that area, but I have clearly disproved you.
Here is a picture of a paddy field in Uva:
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/132/389074662_f2e0f59a6b.jpg?v=0
Look at it very closely before replying.
Off the Cuff:
If the agricultural economy you speak of was go great, then why not go back to it? In fact, go one step further and reject everything Western, including medicine, electric lights, automobiles, computers, refrigerators, free education, etc. Let us have a Sinhala-Buddhist economy of fishing, coconut picking, and rice-planting. Use all the totally mechanical devices to draw the water. This might actually work except that half the population will die out before the needs of the remaining percentage are fully met. As you see, your Mahavamsa fantasy does not fare very well against globalization.
Dear Jaffna Tamil,
When you classify Gang Rape, Dismembering people with Razor Sharp Samurai Swords, Murder, Gang war on High streets, Credit Card Fraud running into GBP 70 million in just two years, Car theft, Protection Money rackets and Extortion (Kappam) as “ANECDOTES” you reveal who you really are. Only a person with a grossly Callous mind would be capable of such flippancy.
These Incidents are REAL and the perpetrators were tried and CONVICTED by British Courts, so you should try telling the Victims that what happened to them are just “Anecdotes”
The Police say that the 100,000 strong SL Tamil Community in UK is Intimidated to such a level that they are afraid to report or even give evidence against those who are TERRORIZING them. It is indeed strange if you don’t feel intimidated; people who are within the terror group usually have nothing to fear. Some have to run the Front Office to do the damage control and you sure fit the bill like a glove.
You need to Learn English quotes before you start using them
“none so blind as those who cannot see” ha ha ha …
There’s no fool like an old fool ….ha ha ha….
Yes of course SL Tamil behaviour is exemplary. So exemplary that the Police had to launch a targeted special Operation called ‘Anver’ to contain it.
You say “I live in the west and go to Toronto and London at least one a year and I feel safer in my new adopted land and in the UK and Canada than I have ever felt in Sri Lanka, the land of my birth.
Be careful when walking around Toronto you may get clubbed to death with Cricket Bats
Ask for a Homeland in Scarborough or Southall etc in a few decades (some of you already have a quarter century of residence), then you will see what happens.
You have such a high opinion of yourself but should seriously rethink the advice you have been very liberal in dishing out. I hope you don’t mind the change I made to your statement, “It is better to be thought a Terrorist than to write and remove all doubt”.
You have been encouraging your young to hate and take up Violence. The above is a result of that. It is sure to mushroom beyond your control and you will live to regret it. Go and have a chat with Mala Krishnaraja, Head of the Tamil Community Forum
This refers to your post of February 8, 2010 @ 10:20 pm
Dear Alpha,
What is Idiotic is to try to use a picture of an Uva paddy field taken on December 20, 2006 to disprove what Wijayapala said about the Uva Wellassa rebellions that took place in 1817. Did you think that “Time stood still in Uva all this long?
The Wiki has this to say
The Uva Rebellion, also known as the ‘Great Rebellion of 1817-1818′ (or the 3rd Kandyan War by the British) took place in Ceylon against the British colonial government under Governor Robert Brownrigg, which had been controlling the formerly independent Udarata (Sinhalese: Up-Country), of which Uva was a province. People used to call this Independence Movement by the name of the two places where it started: the ‘Wellassa Rebellion’ and the ‘Uva Rebellion’. It was the very first struggle for gaining Independence from the British.
Also note the last sentence above. The Uva and Wellassa Rebellions were the very first struggle for gaining Independence from the British. The Sinhalese of this province paid very dearly for it.
Dear Alpha,
“Look at number 4. It refers to present yields.”
Here is number 4:
4. To minimize post harvest **losses** in fruits and vegetable from 35% to 10%.
Could you kindly show me where the word “yield” is found? It seems the most important word is “losses.”
Thank you for the picture of the single paddy field. Could you please tell me the town near where this field was located?
Don’t get me wrong- I’d be delighted to hear that agriculture in Uva had recovered from the British devastation (nearly 200 years ago). But the fact remains that it is one of the poorest regions in Sri Lanka, comparable to war-devastated Northern and Eastern Provinces.
Oh TinyTim,
Huh? You say..
– You need to Learn English quotes before you start using them
“none so blind as those who cannot see” ha ha ha …
There’s no fool like an old fool ….ha ha ha….–
Old fool, I grant you… But I did learn the quote. A little google search (you are very good at it, picking anecdotes) will show its correct. As you Singlish people say “Aney mokkadda kiane?”
Your comment about “It is better to be thought a Terrorist than to write and remove all doubt”. Ha, Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, I thank you, kind Sir! I dont have a high opionon of myself but if you keep flattering me with your imitation, I may start getting a swollen head, not the kind a Tamil usually gets from a Sinhalese, when he gets his head knocked with a club.
Trust me, I was in Scarborough, just two weeks ago. I felt pretty safe. No one bashed my head with a cricket bat. The last time someone tried to bash me, was at down Dickmans Road on July 29, 1983 near the Post office. I was lucky. Another poor Tamil guy had his head bashed in.
Of course you are going to get some criminal elements anywhere, especially when you have a large Tamil population. Unlike you people we dont consider ourselves “special”. I think you are just envious that there isnt such a large population of Sinhalese anywhere other than in Sri Lanka.
Of course I Sri Lanka, the criminal elements are all Sinhalese. I mean the criminal in the literal sense. All the gangsters are Sinhalese. I remember the Nawalokas and Aloysius Mudalaii. I cant think of one Tamil criminal. And as for Sinhala on Sinhala murders, there are plenty of them going on as we speak. So does that mean, Sinhalese criminals are good at home games, and Tamils are do better at away games, though in much smaller numbers?
Here are some criminal stats for Sri Lanka
http://www.nationmaster.com/red/country/ce-sri-lanka/cri-crime&all=1
And I repeat this for the second time, as a Tamil I feel safer walking on the streets of New York, London, Toronto or Sydney than in Colombo. Anytime, everytime!
My Dear Wijyapala,
“Here I agree with you and disagree with some other people here. We have to offer the olive branch.”
Thank you,Its because of people like you that I spend time posting on this site and remain optimistic. . Unless and until we realize and accept that you are where you are and I am where I am is because of the chance of nature. and we have a lot more in common that what divides us.
I hope there are more people like us who can bring the country back from the brink. My dream is to retire to my ancestral village in Jaffna and rebuild my grandfathers house and walk around in a verti, shirt and chappals without any harassment and as a freeman. I am sure you want the same equivalence for you.
We can only dream, My Brother.
What are you replying to me on, Jaffna Tamil?
I never said ““It is better to be thought a Terrorist than to write and remove all doubt”.
I’m sure you feel safer in the West than Colombo because of the experiences you’ve had. What exactly happened during 1983 to you though? Can you clarify your experiences were at the time?
I wouldn’t feel safe in Scarborough considering all the pro-LTTE elements around.
“Of course I Sri Lanka, the criminal elements are all Sinhalese. I mean the criminal in the literal sense. All the gangsters are Sinhalese. I remember the Nawalokas and Aloysius Mudalaii. I cant think of one Tamil criminal. And as for Sinhala on Sinhala murders, there are plenty of them going on as we speak. So does that mean, Sinhalese criminals are good at home games, and Tamils are do better at away games, though in much smaller numbers?”
You’re getting a little carried away with your assumptions now aren’t you? How the hell do you know that all the criminals in Sri Lanka are Sinhala? What about the members of the LTTE? Do they get a free pass? And I read sometime ago about Muslim gangsters.. Prabhakaran’s home town was also known for smuggling goods– were the Sinhalese behind this too?
Tamils are very good at dismissing any criticism of them in Sri Lanka by crying ‘Sinhala chauvinism’ and propaganda. Not so easy outside of the country though. Every time I read ‘Sri Lankan caught for a crime in a foreign country’ it’s always a Tamil. I wonder why that is.
Dear Alpha,
If the agricultural economy you speak of was go great, then why not go back to it? so you said.
Idiocy has no limits with you, one gaff after another.
There is no IF about it. It was the greatest in Asia. You should read Ancient Ceylon By H. Parker
The discussion was about the GREAT TEA ECONOMY remember? The Tea did not get planted in the sky it needed Soil and thousands upon thousands of acres were destroyed to plant them. Soil erosion is inherent in tea plantations. SL rivers start in the Hill country. Denude the catchment and you reduce the water. where do you think the eroded soil goes in to? Destroy the irrigation systems and you destroy Agriculture.
Going back is what they want to do. Not easy after the dependency on Tea revenue was forced on us which had to be maintained in order to buy food. The food that we had in surplus then. The food that we don’t have now.
Hence alternate areas had to be developed. That’s why the massive Senanayake Samudra irrigation scheme came into existence. Then you guys started the Traditional Tamil Homeland canard and started Racist Demands to put a spanner on development and progress.
When you run out of inteligent arguments you resort to chldish ones. The same type of argument 5 year olds have, such as those quoted below
reject everything Western, including medicine, electric lights, automobiles, computers, refrigerators, free education, etc. Let us have a Sinhala-Buddhist economy of fishing, coconut picking, and rice-planting. Use all the totally mechanical devices to draw the water.
What a Rubbishy argument.
How did the Tea Economy giving a Billion $ revenue arrive here?
You have nothing else to support your claim?
Would do you good to study the Eastern inventions that were copied by the West. Though it has no relevance here, it will at least keep you from making a fool of yourself.
Free Education, Hospitals, Medicine were all in existence in SL before it appeared in the West. The earliest hospital dates back to 4 century BCE. Regarding water you should read Parker. It would also give you an idea of Sinhalese Engineering skills.
How come the Tea Economy that you were bragging about end up in Religion and the Mahawamsa? Sounds like the Mahawamsa is a thorn that you guys dont seem to be able to get rid of (sour grapes?). Personnaly I am proud to have a chronicle that gives an unbroken written record of History. Do you have one?
Before the conversion zealots invaded this Island it was mainly Buddhist not that ANY of these things have anything to do with the argument that you try to maintain about the Tea Economy.
So why don’t you stick to the point you originally raised and try to prove it with logic?
(For some reason your post of February 9, 2010 @ 1:04 pm was not visible on this thread when I posted mine of February 9, 2010 @ 3:36 pm)
Dear Jaffna Tamil,
Your grossly Callous and flippant reference to the Gravest form of crime perpetrated by members of your community reveal who you really are. A member of a terror organization terrorizing their own community, infesting public forums trying to do damage control.
The statements of the Police and the need to have special operations to contain the criminal activity is sufficient proof of the Exemplary behaviour
All these criminal elements are young second generation Tamils born and bred on Western Soil. So why the propensity for Grave Crime ?
The fact that they have been fed by their elders with a dose of daily Hate has nothing to do with it? Continue with whatever you are doing it won’t affect SL but will affect your host country and then your community. Though you manipulate them now it won’t be long for them to go out of control. As I stated before, have a chat with Ms. Mala Krishnaraja, Head of the Tamil Community Forum if you care about the next generation.
As I stated earlier learn English quotes before you start using them.
Blind = those who cannot see (nothing unusual here)
The correct quote is
There are none so blind as those, that will not see
It means to willfully overlook
Trust me, I was in Scarborough, just two weeks ago. I felt pretty safe. No one bashed my head with a cricket bat you say.
Trust you? not yet but maybe later. Lucky that you did not come across one of these guys though.
Toronto police have appealed to a group of about 20 men to turn themselves in after another man was beaten to death with baseball and cricket bats in a fight between Tamil-Canadians.
Kristian Thanapalan, 22, and five friends were swarmed by the larger group in a school parking lot near Kennedy Road and Highway 401, in suburban Scarborough, early Saturday morning.
Thanapalan died at Sunnybrook Hospital shortly after the beating.
Would you classify the Dickman’s Road story as an Anecdote too? I wouldn’t.
I cant think of one Tamil criminal. you say.
Already forgotten the Megalomaniac Prabha?
BTW I am not Tim. Senility catching up on you?
–Tim Tim said,
February 9, 2010 @ 10:33 pm
What are you replying to me on, Jaffna Tamil?
I never said ““It is better to be thought a Terrorist than to write and remove all doubt”.–
I apologize I was replying to OTC.
As for 1983. I was working as an executive at a firm on Vauxhaull St. Sunday July 24th (i think) my firends house on Campbell place was burnt to the ground. Of course I didn not know about and went to work and around mid day, we are told to go home. I had three sinhalese friends in my car had one of them drive it and I was in the back seat crouching and at the Eye Hospital Junction, a crowd was checking every car. Fortunatly as it was close to ward place and JR’s home. the cops were tough and there was some tear gas. And the crowd dispersed and we were able to shoot out of there. From there my friend dropped me at my house and took the car for safekeeping to his house. Till Wedesday Morning no one could get out (I was single then and lived alone) And my neighbour who is a sinhalese bought me some groceries. And on friday I went to the Comobo Hindu on Lawrence Road, with some supplies and clothes for friends who had their housees burnt. It was hell on earth there. On the way back on Dickman’s Road the people started running south as they head the Tigers had landed at Fort Railway Station and marching towards wellawatte. I took the car back to a friend who lived on dickman’s road and later walked out to check. The mob had combak in a frenzy and I ran back inside my friend’s house. I heard that a Tamil man was killed near the post office and if I recall correctly blood stains were there the next day when I drove back.
It was hell on earth. For the next two or three weeks, every little noise in the night kept me awake. And I was among the lucky few as my neighborhood in Colombo 3 was mixed and the mob were kept away.
I hope you understand what I went through.
<>
Well just give a well known Tamil Criminal? And LTTE by your own definition is a Terrorist, not a criminal. I was given names of Tamil Criminals from the UK and Canada, surely its much simpler to get Tamil Criminals in Sri Lanka?
–Every time I read ‘Sri Lankan caught for a crime in a foreign country’ it’s always a Tamil. I wonder why that is?–
Ever hear of Sepala Ekanayake? Read harder!
OTC says–
–Before the conversion zealots invaded this Island it was mainly Buddhist not that ANY of these things have anything to do with the argument that you try to maintain about the Tea Economy.–
Doesnt the mahawansa say that Ellara was the king? And he was a Damila? 2100 years ago?
As another wise sri lankan said….We have over 2,500 years of glorious history in Sri Lanka.
—Why think about our future, when we can ask for more of our past?–
Go on OTC, keep on winding the clock backwards!
Off the Cuff said,–So why don’t you stick to the point you originally raised and try to prove it with logic? –
Dear OTC, I have to give credit to Alpha for trying. One can fight with fight logic with logic or fire with fire. But when your arguments are like damp firecracker (lot of smoke , no flash or bang) how can he?
Physician, heal thy self Or as my grandma used to say when you point your finger at someone, remeber, three are pointing back at you. (I cant draw a picture here but what she meant was the other three fingers in your hand. Of course the thumb usually is pointing upwards but I don’t know how it is with your hand)
Off the Cuff:
The only thing SL was totally self-sufficient in that it is not self-sufficient in today is rice. With the $1 billion USD in revenues from tea production, rice can easily be imported at a reasonably low cost, which is exactly what happens. Tea is a much more valuable market commodity than rice – the market for rice is extremely large, because the quantity supplied is extremely high. In other words, if SL turned all of its tea production into rice production, any revenue from exports would only be a tiny fraction of the revenue gleaned from tea exports.
I would also point that before the British came, most Lankans were engaged in subsistence agriculture. Most of the land was owned by Kings… in modern terms, this would equate to a command economy. It was during colonial times that privatization of land occurred. On the other hand, this privatization can be considered essential if SL was to transition from a feudal to a market economy. Globalization would have done what the British did, if the British didn’t do it themselves. Unfortunately the British had limited means at their disposal where the development of the island was concerned. On the other hand, if one considers how they used the resources which were at their disposal at the time, it is a picture of success. Tea is one outstanding example.
OTC,
–Your grossly Callous and flippant reference to the Gravest form of crime perpetrated by members of your community reveal who you really are. A member of a terror organization terrorizing their own community, infesting public forums trying to do damage control.–.
When one cannot rationalize, then one demonizes! And Hate? You say..-The fact that they have been fed by their elders with a dose of daily Hate has nothing to do with it?—. The only Blind irrational hate I have felt is in Sri Lanka from you Sinhalese. No where else, from no one else.
And thank you for your advice about Miss Krishnarajah. I dont know who she is, but would happy to learn about her if you could provide me the info. Of course, neither she nor I should or could speak for all the dispossessed Tamil people of Sri Lanka.
I am sorry about the death in Toronto of a Tamil man, but we do not know of the circumstances. A Google search indicates that it happened in July 2009, certainly not two weeks ago. Thats the best that you can do? Well here is one back at you friend. in October, a mentally Tamil man was beaten to death in BROAD DAY light in Wellawatte in while the gawking public was gawking away, as usually happens when a Tamil person is set upon in Sri Lanka. and if you read the news, you will know that even now Tamils are being killed in the north and east as we speak. Actually it was videotaped. here is the link for your enjoyment!.
And by your own definition, Praba was a TERRORIST! not a common criminal. And the Sri Lankan Criminal classes by far, Sinhalese. Here is a challenge for you…You are very good it picking stuff off the google. Give me some names of major Tamil Criminals. I am not talking about the crime of passion, like Dr. Kularatne or Pauline De Croos. Here is a hint. Justice Alles has written a series of books about the famous criminal cases in Ceylon. here is the link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A.C._Alles. All except one (Sathasivam) were sinhalese. As they say, Anecdotes, Anecdotes and Anecdotes. Or to put it another way, Statistics, Damned lies and Statistics.
And I still dont see your point about “There are none so blind as those who will not see”. Some say “those” some say ” those, that “. Its an Idiom, (no I am not calling you an idiot, I promise, check the thesaurus), not an exact quote by someone, so neither you nor I are in a position to correct each other.
and as for –BTW I am not Tim. Senility catching up on you?–
I apologized to Tim and I apogize to you for confusing each other. Senility…. Funately, no though, when I read news from Sri Lanka, I wish it were so!
I appreciate you for not downgrading the Dickman;s road incident to an anecdote. Would not be respectful to that man who died 27 years ago.
Dear Janaki Ganesan,
You have a Tamil-sounding last name. Are you Tamil or have Tamil ancestry?
“Every time I read ‘Sri Lankan caught for a crime in a foreign country’ it’s always a Tamil.”
There are a number of reasons for this. First, the expatriate Tamil population outside Sri Lanka far far outnumbers the Sinhala expatriate population. In Canada alone there are an estimated 200,000 SL Tamils. This means that misdeeds by individual Tamils naturally will outnumber those of Sinhalese.
The second critical reason is the LTTE’s influence. The LTTE relied on a number of legitimate and illegitimate means to fund itself, credit card scam being one of the top operations in the latter category. If there was no LTTE, the delinquency rate among Tamils would be far less. I would blame the LTTE and not the Tamil community.
Dear Jaffna Tamil,
This is Belle’s statement
Please note that said pioneering of suicide bombers took place in Sri Lanka. Elsewhere, Tamils of SL origin have been exemplary citizens.
This is my query to Belle
“Elsewhere, Tamils of SL origin have been exemplary citizens.”
The above generalization is not exactly true is it?
This is your input in defense of Belle. A cheap attempt at silencing the question by a semantic attack sans any substance.
This exposed you as a person with an Ego problem.
A person who assumes non Tamils are inferior.
A person who projects himself as a learned Globetrotter
A person who believes that only Tamils travel the world.
‘You really should try not sound like your name and think before you speak!
Have you lived anywhere outside your homeland? You sound like the frog in the well, impressed with his own voice!’
The contention is Belle’s statement which on available facts, is visibly untrue. Sufficient facts from Police reports and Court cases were provided to prove beyond doubt that Belle was wrong.
Faced with facts that were indisputable you tried to belittle them calling them “Anecdotes”. However, when dealing with your own experiences similar acts ceased to be “Anecdotes”, exposing yet another aspect of your character, duplicity.
Belle was referring to Tamil behaviour OUTSIDE Sri Lanka
So please explain the relevance your question has, to proving Belle’s contention?
Ms. Mala Krishnaraja, is the Head of the Tamil Community Forum. She is a prominent Tamil in the UK. I am surprised that you with all your Globetrotting and many visits to UK did not recognize her name.
Dear Jaffna Tamil,
I used the word MAINLY</i) NOT Purely so what is the Point, if any, that you are attempting to make by bringing up Elara in your post of February 10, 2010 @ 1:14 am ?
Seriouly OTC,
I dont have ego problem. ALl I was trying to do was to do prove the fallacy in yoru arguments. I am sure you have extensive expertise in a vast arry of subjects but not about the expatriate Tamil Community. Listen to Brother Wijepala. If I want to learn how to make “kavun” or “kokis” I will ask you for advice, I promise you., but your knowledge of the expatriate tamil community is woefully lacking in substance. That iself is not your fault. You have other things to learn. But when you make what can be politely called ignorant comments, I think I have to correct you.
Wilth all your extensive googling capabilities, you have me a names of a few tamil criminals in Canada and the UK. But you cannot give me a single name of a mjor tamil criminal in Sri Lanka (The late Prabh does not count, he was a terrorist, like the late Rohana Wijaweera).
You have not responded to my refrence to Justice Alles. You give me examples, I give you examples. Touche!
As for Ms Krishnaraja, I cannot meet every single famous tamil person in London. That is why I asked you to give me some information. I will be happy to learn about her thoughts.
Dear Alpha,
We did not import ANY food as our Agricultural economy was very strong. We exported Spices, Grain, Gems and even Elephants. This country was self sufficient in what it needed for her people and did not have to depend on outside help.
The Tea destroyed the virgin land and that destruction continues to this day
OTC….
you said ….
–Dear Alpha,
We did not import ANY food as our Agricultural economy was very strong. We exported Spices, Grain, Gems and even Elephants. This country was self sufficient in what it needed for her people and did not have to depend on outside help.
The Tea destroyed the virgin land and that destruction continues to this day–
maybe so, maybe not. Why isnt there a demand close all the tea estates and convert them into paddy fields or corn fields? At least be honest enough to admit that because of the indentured Tamil labor (and I do not make the distinction between an Jaffna Tamil, Batticaloa tamil or an Estate Tamil . I used to but now having being exposed to a truly democratic system, I believe that any person born in Sri Lanka is a Sri Lankan citizen without any limits.)
I do agree with you on one thing. If the Estate Labor is paid a fair wage for its work, like a factory worker, the Tea Industry would not be sustainable. In this instance you are absolutely right. The Sri Lank an economy is subsidized by the sweat of the estate tamils and if the subsidy is removed and they are paid fair wages, they industry would collapse.
Then perhaps we could achieve your dream of going back to the middle ages.
See, I agree with you on this instance.
Dear Jaffna Tamil,
You say you don’t have an Ego problem but what you write says otherwise. I made that clear in my previous post in detail (please see February 10, 2010 @ 4:58 pm).
The point of contention is Belle’s comment which is a generalized statement of the behaviour of the Tamils living abroad which I pointed out was an incorrect statement
She said “Elsewhere, Tamils of SL origin have been exemplary citizens.”
Your response was a vitriolic attack that did not contain an IOTA of fact either in support of Belle’s contention or against my contention.
Since you have forgotten what you wrote let me repeat it for you
‘You really should try not sound like your name and think before you speak!
Have you lived anywhere outside your homeland? You sound like the frog in the well, impressed with his own voice!’
Now please read it through “Word by Word” and show ONE WORD that you have written pertaining to the subject under discussion.
My assessment of your character based on what you wrote is as follows
You are arrogant
You hate Sinhalese
You look down on others
You have a superiority complex
You want to show that you are a regular Globetrotter
You believe that only you are worldly wise
You believe Tamils can do no wrong
You believe Tamils are a superior race
You believe that Sinhalese have no access to travel
You believe that Sinhalese have no access to information
You believe that the Sinhalese are Idiots
Please prove that I am not justified in assessing your character based on your first post. If I am wrong I will not hesitate to apologise.
Your later writings have also shown that
You do not care about the suffering of victims of crime when the perpetrators are Tamil.
You care ONLY when the victim happens to be yourself or another Tamil.
I will respond to any question pertaining to the subject (Belle’s contention) that you decided to challenge but will not respond to any other question UNLESS you concede that you are wrong about what is being discussed.
Thank you
OTC:
“We did not import ANY food as our Agricultural economy was very strong. We exported Spices, Grain, Gems and even Elephants. This country was self sufficient in what it needed for her people and did not have to depend on outside help.”
That is exactly the point I am making. You cannot export spices, grains, gems, and elephants and expect the economy to be sustainable because the market has changed quite a bit since before colonial times. For example, the diamond market is an extremely competitive tight one. There are a few suppliers, e.g. DeBeers who have a virtual monopoly on the supply of diamonds. If S. Lanka tries to enter this market as a newbie, the bigger players can simply lower their prices until the S. Lankan diamond suppliers lose so much revenue they are forced to go out of business.
Let’s put the above into perspective. You are suggesting that an economy relying entirely on domestic agriculture which employs very little modern technology in the production process can compete in a global market where numerous other countries produce virtually the same output, in similar or greater quantities with very little price differential. For example, China is responsible for 26% of all world rice production. China has much more advanced production processes; it can produce much more rice, with far fewer workers, if and when it wants. So even if SL exports rice, why should people choose S. Lankan rice over Chinese rice? S. Lanka cannot simply lower the price thereby offering a cheaper incentive to buy, because to keep pace with demand, and still remain competitive with China, it would have to supply 26% of all total rice, and production costs increase in proportion to increasing supply. I have just mentioned China; what about India, Burma, Thailand, Brazil, Laos, Cambodia, etc? These countries will also have a market share in the sale of rice. If a BIG country like China, that is still largely rural, can only produce 26% of the world’s rice, how much rice can a tiny country like SL hope to export? Probably not even 5%.
Regarding your last point, no country these days is self-sufficient in everything it needs. Even the most secluded countries – which face UN trade sanctions, btw – engage in some kind of trade. I am referring to N. Korea, Cuba, etc.
There is another point which you have not addressed. What % of the SL population will willingly take up agriculture, if given a choice between agriculture and other occupations? The reason why SL was entirely self-sufficient in rice production before the colonial times is because 98% of the country consisted of farmers! What is the % nowadays, probably around 50%. 50% is not enough to guarantee total self-sufficiency, for a population of 18 million, certainly not with primitive farming tools, if we are talking about many different kinds of foods. So unless you want to eat only rice and curry, with toddy and plantains, it will be necessary to import certain kinds of foods, only because 50% of the population cannot produce enough of every kind of food to sustain 18 million people, and still make a good profit.
““Elsewhere, Tamils of SL origin have been exemplary citizens.”
The above generalization is not exactly true is it?”
If the LTTE and its supporters are excluded, I would agree with the above generalization. I’ve worked with too many diaspora Tamils in the N-E to believe otherwise.
Personally I would say that the worst diaspora Tamils are worse than the worst Sinhala expatriates, but the best diaspora Tamils are better than the best Sinhala expatriates. With Tamils you get both the greatest heroes and the slimiest scum, whereas Sinhalese tend towards mediocrity (the “Middle Path”). That is my experience as a Sinhala expatriate.
Brother JT,
Have you read any of AC Alles’s books? They are extremely difficult to find.
Oh Dear, I seem to have hurt OTC’s feelings. Of course you are entitled to your own opinion, but it is not my intention to demean you or insult you. All I suggested was that you should experience things before you speak, especially before you condemn in harsh sweeping statements, the expatriate Tamils, people you have very little knowledge about.
I dont hate the Sinhalese. As I posted elsewhere I mentioned my Sinhalese friend’s worried about his ex Army relative who was a Fonseka confidante and is expecting to be taken in anytime.
And I have mentioned that it was 3 Sinhalese friends who saved my life in the 83 riots.
But I condemn the Sinhalese for inflicting so much pain on the Tamils these past 62 years. If not for racist sinhalese, I would be living i Colombo, going for a walk on Galle Face Beach and eating those prawn vadais!
Trust be I love the land as much as any Patriotic Sinhalese, but the land did not return my love.
wijayapala said,
February 11, 2010 @ 7:05 am
Brother JT,
Have you read any of AC Alles’s books? They are extremely difficult to find.
Brother Wijepala,
I have copies of the Death of A prime minister and one on JVP insurrection. They are the best as they discuss polictical issues. Rest of them are retelling of common crimes and murders.
I got then in the early ’80s at either Vijitha Yapa or KVGDe Silva. I will post the publisher’s name on this thread tonight.
They are very good reads. And very thoughtful.
@ Jaffna Tamil
Your arguments have been intellectually dishonest to say the least. When some one said that SL had the best economy pre-colonially, you kept asking why we are not going back to it. The simple answer is there is a 200 year gap where many things could happen. All the countries with thriving economies in 16th century were made in to European colonies, stalling progression of those nations. A good indicator of what thee nations have been if left uninterrupted can be seen from Japan. She has kept all her moral values, but modernised from 17th century onwards. Japan did not allow super-imposed moral systems to be planted in their society. The result, Japan has achieved what UK can only think of achieving in their wettest dreams. SL left uninterrupted, I am not going to say will become a Japan. But it would have been much better than this, taking only needed / useful things from Western civilisation.
Dear No Frames,
If Sri Lanka was left uninterrupted, it wouldn’t have been Sri Lanka as one country. There would have been minimum 3 kingdoms waging war against each other. The same goes for the mighty India; today’s India is only possible due to colonial consolidated rule!
Dear Alpha,
You are making erroneous assumptions in your argument.
Time does not stand still for Sri Lanka while it moves ahead for the rest.
Development therefore, goes on in SL as well as elsewhere. SL is a country that had a highly advanced Technology when it came to water management. It had Engineering skills that were unmatched in this field. It had a Highly advanced Civil Engineering Technology. The point I am trying to make is that Lankans of that age were not imbeciles. There were innovative thinkers amongst them. In fact there are ground breaking inventions that are credited to them. Hence it is a fallacy to discount the ability of Lankans of maintaining the Technological superiority they had then, even to this day. In the least, we may not have been second to none. Please see the extract from a report available at the FAO website reproduced at the end for more information.
A country that is unable to produce enough food to feed its people domestically, is at the mercy of the world market, and is more vulnerable to trade pressure and global food shortages and price shocks.
Tea is not an essential product to a country. Unlike oil it has no demand value and can and will be dispensed with in a crisis, it will be one of the first to be axed. The Tea trade experienced this when the Russian economy fell and Tea exports to that country fell.
The income from Tea is dependant on the vagaries of Global Demand and supply. We are not a monopoly producer and in addition to India, Africa is also an active producer. As in any economy as supply increases with a stagnant or falling demand, the revenue falls. So Tea revenue can be here today and gone tomorrow.
The local demand for food does not decrease. As a matter of fact it increases along with population. If this demand is not met it will cause social unrest and very complex problems.
The first priority of any country is food for her people. Look at any developed country that had the means to carry out Agriculture. The USA still provides subsidies to encourage food production. Agricultural subsidies to European farmers and fisheries make up more than 40 percent of the EU budget.
Food security is as important as the security of its borders, probably more so.
You state Let’s put the above into perspective. You are suggesting that an economy relying entirely on domestic agriculture which employs very little modern technology in the production process can compete in a global market where numerous other countries produce virtually the same output, in similar or greater quantities with very little price differential.
Oops, wrong assumption again. I have not stated anywhere that Lanka should isolate itself from the world. What I stated was that the destruction of the Agricultural Economy that existed then is an irreparable and immeasurable damage to our Economy. The Tea economy cannot even come close to compensating for the loss.
The need for water for irrigation and consumption is what drove the water management Technology to such a level of sophistication that you see described below. Given the available ingenuity you cannot assume that the need for higher yields will not drive technology required for that in the same way. All what you call modern was developed by people who had ingenuity and that was available in abundance in Lanka of old.
Agriculture catalysed Water management which catalysed Civil Engineering which catalysed Instrumentation and measurement which catalysed Surveying and Levelling which catalysed Mathematics which catalysed Scientific Research and so on. It was a chain reaction of development into diverse fields. In short when there was a need, the Lankans had the capacity and the Technology to meet it
The Economy that I mentioned to you was what existed then, not what it would have been now. With undisturbed development we would have at least been a peer of the developed world, if not a leading one.
Here is an extract from a report available at http://www.fao.org
Details of the historical aspects of the ancient irrigation works of Sri Lanka are dealt with by Brohier (1934, 1937), Fernando, A.D.N. (1979), Parker (1981) and Perera (1984). Arumugam (1969) provides constructional details of each major irrigation scheme. In this present- ation the author will attempt to highlight some of the important historical aspects.
The purpose and determination in the construction of the irrigation systems are depicted by the words of Parakrama Bahu the Great, 1153–1186 AD: Let not even a drop of rain water go to the sea without benefiting man. The final achievements were highlighted by Sir Henry Ward, Governor of Sri Lanka In: Collected Minutes of Brohier (1934): It is possible, that in no other part of the world are there to be found within the same space, the remains of so many works of irrigation, which are, at the same time, of such great antiquity, and of such vast magnitude as Ceylon. Probably no other country can exhibit works so numerous, and at the same time so ancient and extensive, within the same limited area, as this Island.
The works at Panduwewa, according to Parker (1981), is the first great reservoir ever constructed, if the great lakes of Egypt, which are merely immense natural hollows into which streams were turned, are not considered. This reservoir is thought to have been built by King Dappula II (807–812 AD). The earliest constructive work which can be identified with certainty in the Island is the Abhayawewa in Anuradhapura, built by King Pandukabhaya in about 300 BC
…. when the volume of water within the tank increases, it builds up severe pressure that a normal sluice gate cannot handle safely. Then other measures become necessary to safeguard the tank bund. The earlier sluice gate has to be strengthened with a novel device. Large tanks in Sri Lanka would not have been possible but for the invention of a new device called the Bisokotuwa, which is an original concept of Sri Lankan engineering.
The ingenuity of the Sinhala irrigation engineers is best exemplified by the invention of the “biso-kotuwa” (which literally means queen – enclosure), later termed by Parker (1909, in 1981) “bisi-kotuwa”, the enclosure where the water level lowers. The “bisikotuwa” is the equivalent of the valve-pit, which functions in the regulation of the outward flow of water and is therefore essentially an invention made by the Sinhala irrigation engineers more than 2200 years ago. It has remained essentially unchanged since then (Brohier, 1934; Needham, 1971; Parker, 1981). “It was this (=biso-kotuwa) invention alone which permitted the Sinhalese to proceed boldly with the construction of reservoirs that still rank among the finest and greatest work of its kind in the world” (Parker, 1909, in Parker, 1981).
It is also recorded that in the design of dams built across rivers the early Sinhala engineers showed ingenuity. The dams were built at an oblique angle, exposing the masonry to a lesser degree of violent shocks caused by impact of large floating tree trunks and other debris.
No historical account on the reservoir systems in the island will be complete without reference to the works of King Parakrama Bahu (1153–1186 AD). This ruler is reputed to have been responsible for the construction or the restoration of 165 dams, 3910 canals, 163 major tanks (=reservoirs) and 2376 minor tanks, all in a reign of 33 years, perhaps reaching the zenith of development in irrigation and agriculture of the Sinhala race during its 2500 year history.
End Extract
The Yodha Ela (Giant’s Canal) runs along the Colombo – Anuradhapura main road, it runs a distance of 54 miles mostly on flat land between two reservoirs, from the Kala Weva to the Tissa Weva in Anuradapura. This Canal has only ONE EMBANKMENT and has a gradient of 1:10,000 for most of its 87 Kilometer length; the rest has a gradient of 1:5,000
Any professional in Engineering should know what this means in terms of instrumentation, accuracy in construction and knowledge of Trigonometry in a 3 dimensional space. The single embankment means it had to trace the contour between the two tanks and hence even in that day we had the technology and instrumentation to trace such a contour between two points that were not visible to each other.
BTW Diamonds are not found in SL. We are famous for Rubies and Sapphires and those are sought after.
Dear Jaffna Tamil.
Don’t flatter yourself.
You did not hurt my feelings.
What I did was to expose you for who you are
You now say
All I suggested was that you should experience things before you speak, especially before you condemn in harsh sweeping statements, the expatriate Tamils, people you have very little knowledge about.
I believe this is another example of you DUPLICITY.
Could you please point out the statement where I am supposed to condemn in harsh sweeping statements, the expatriate Tamils in the post that you responded to. I have duplicated that post below for your easy reference.
Posted by me on February 4, 2010 @ 10:47 pm
Dear Belle,
“Elsewhere, Tamils of SL origin have been exemplary citizens.”
The above generalization is not exactly true is it?
Dear Wijayapala,
I tend to agree with your post of February 11, 2010 @ 7:02 am, as a former Sinhala expatriate.
However I think a third category of SL Tamils have to be excluded from consideration. The generalization will then more or less apply to the rest.
The young Tamils who have been brought up under a culture of Hate who now as teenagers, believe violence is the way to settle differences. They too need to be excluded.
My dear, dear OTC,
You say..
“Dear Jaffna Tamil Don’t flatter yourself. You did not hurt my feelings.
What I did was to expose you for who you are
I am glad I did not hurt your feelings, I was not flattering myself, I was actually feeling pretty bad that I had hurt your feelings. As for what you consider harsh, its between you and your god. Its not for me to teach you manners or etiquette. However making sweeping generalization about the moral values people you hardly is not considered good manners in my circle and as far as I know in most Sinhalese circles. I can understand if a Tamil expatriate had harmed you
and you ar e lashing out. But basing it on anecdotal Google searches is poor form, as they say.
But here you go again.
… Dear Wijayapala,
I tend to agree with your post of February 11, 2010 @ 7:02 am, as a former Sinhala expatriate.
However I think a third category of SL Tamils have to be excluded from consideration. The generalization will then more or less apply to the rest.
The young Tamils who have been brought up under a culture of Hate who now as teenagers, believe violence is the way to settle differences. They too need to be excluded.—
You GENERALIZE again…. YOUR OWN WORDs….
When Tiny TIm asked about my sexperiences during the 1983 riots. I wrote them down.
Now you tell us about your experiences with the expatriate Tamils, at you are so quick to generalize?
OTC:
You have not addressed my main point, which is that the market value of agricultural commodities has drastically changed since pre-colonial times. As I said, just because you can produce it does not mean you can sell it without incurring a loss. On the other hand, what you can sell in high quantity is worth exporting. You say tea is not essential; that is absolute foolishness. The GDP of Sri Lanka in 2008 was $39.6 billion. The revenue from tea was $1.22 billion in 2008.
What about employment?
” It is also the country’s largest employer providing employment both directly and indirectly to over one million people. It also contributes a significant amount to Government revenue and to the gross domestic product.”
So you are saying that a product like tea, which accounts for 25% of S. Lantnkan GDP and is the LARGEST domestic employer is not worth it? Time to get out of your Mahavamsa fantasy world!
It does not really matter what primitive S. Lankan engineering methods produced. Regardless of whatever value they may have had 1000′s of years ago, they cannot compete with modern technology. American farmers do not produce so much just because of subsidies; they produce so much because they employ modern technology: “Fewer than 2 percent of Americans farm for a living today, and only 17 percent of Americans now live in rural areas.” (http://www.csrees.usda.gov/qlinks/extension.html). And yet these American farmers produce 100 times more than their Lankan counterparts even though more than 50% of S. Lankans are employed in farming.
OTC,
I enjoyed reading about ancient engineering expertise of the ancient Ceylonese. They did have magnificent engineering skills. But to say that they were the best in The world, or in Asia or even in South Asia is a bit too much. The Romans of 2000 years ago had wonderful water suppy and irrigation systems. The Mayans of south americans had great systems, to mention a few. Romans built water aqueducts, some of which are still in operation.
I think here lies the problem. Everyone things that their culture is the best, nothing wrong with that. But they all move on… They respect their cultures, but look ahead. Indians who used to look behind have realized the futility have stared to look ahead in the past 20 or 30 years with startling results
For all the great engineering skills of the past, the Sri Lankan is structure is broken down. Take Galle Road for example! Or RADe MEl Mawatte! When I was there in 2006 january, it was like moving back in time. The Galle ROad, was the shadow of the Galle Road I remembered in the 60s and 70s.
When it comes to Irrigation, we had to get the help from western countries to build the Mahaveli Project. If we want railways built, we need the Chinese and the Indians. If we want a large confrence center, we need the Chinese to build it.
This cannot be blamed on the Colonial occupation. The colonizers left us wonderful universites which produce people who are the best doctors, engineers, scientists, accountants,, you name it. Go to any major university in the west, one will find a Sinhalese or Tamil or Muslim or Burgher or all four with basic degrees from a Sri Lankan University.
So I think its time to stop going back and saying we are the best and we were wronged by the colonialists and take responsibility for our actions.
Stop obsessing about Duttagemuna and Ellara and focus on the future. Start focusing on how to cut your commute time on the Galle road and stop worrying about Bo Trees. Bo Trees survived before Lord Buddha and will survive long after you and I are gone.
Stop obessing about what “Brohier (1934, 1937), Fernando, A.D.N. (1979), Parker (1981) and Perera (1984). ARUMUGAM (1969)” said about the ancient irrigation systems and dare I say try to implement the very same ARUMUGAM’s
“Arumugam Plan”.
Then we can look ahead to a bright future.
And I say “we”, because though I am an expatriate, “you can take a TAMIL our of JAFFNA”, but you cant take “JAFFNA” out of a “TAMIL”. And equivalent is the same for Ceylon Tamils from all parts of north and east!
OTC. here is the lok for the ARUMUGAM Plan (http://transcurrents.com/tc/2009/05/a_river_for_jaffna_the_arumuga.html)
OTC
I apolgize for my TYPO –….
-When Tiny TIm asked about my sexperiences during the 1983 riots. I wrote them down-.
Of course I meant experiences.
I hang my head in shame.
@ Burning Issue
Sorry, that will not happen, and that will be the imagination of some. SL most of the time had one strong ruler with whom others made peace with
Burning Issue—
–No Frames said,
February 12, 2010 @ 11:03 pm
@ Burning Issue
Sorry, that will not happen, and that will be the imagination of some. SL most of the time had one strong ruler with whom others made peace with–
Do you know your history? There was no single dominant kingdom or ruler that dominated the WHOLE ISLAND OF CEYLON other than the British. Some were more powerful than others, and once in a while managed to rule the whole island for a few years (I cant think of anyone, perhaps Duttagemnu, but I am sure you will be able to illuminate me) but none ruled 150 years.
Dear Alpha,
You probably did not see the significance of the opening statement
Time does not stand still for Sri Lanka while it moves ahead for the rest.
You are making comparisons of the present USA and SL or present UK and SL which does not meet the logic of this discussion.
Your contention was about the Tea economy that the Brits introduced.
My contention is that the destruction that was done to the Existing Agricultural economy in order to establish that Tea economy does not compensate for the destruction done.
Hence in order to assess what “ could have been the state of the local Agricultural economy in the present, you have to start the comparison at a point of time just before the destruction took place and estimate the probable state of development the Agricultural Economy would have reached today and then do the comparison.
That is the reason why the Lankan Technological capabilities of the past were mentioned.
Please remember that Lanka would continue to develop as it did before the destruction if left alone because our people had the intelligence and the engineering skills needed for that development. It is a proven fact, not conjecture.
Let me put into perspective the Technical skills that we possessed.
A gradient of 1:10,000 means 1.2 Thousands of an inch to the foot. Hence we had the capability of measuring at least to a Thousand of an inch. To maintain that sort of gradient for over 30 Km our engineers would have possessed equipment similar to the modern day Theodolite. To build Massive Reservoirs. They needed to have Mathematical knowledge and ability to analyze rainfall, catchment area, Erosion, seepage, dam strength, spill size to accommodate peak rainfall, water pressure on Sluice gates and much more. Even equations for the flow rate such as Q/s = v*A have been used in designing the outlet.
It is inconceivable the depth of understanding and mastery they had at such an early age. If development continued without interruption we would be second to non in these fields. This is why your point about primitive tools fail. You did not consider the development that would continue which would have kept pace with that of the west. Especially because as communication improved superior technology would get exported and imported. We had the people who could understand and use Technology.
You say that You say tea is not essential; that is absolute foolishness.
Please answer this question, Is Tea essential to Life?
I say no, it is not essential for supporting life.
On the other hand Food is essential for life.
Hence if the world economy goes into recession and the countries that buy Tea gets in to financial difficulties the first thing that gets Axed will be the Non essentials to life. It happened to us when the Rusian economy crashed. Why did you overlook what I stated about the Russian Tea market?
Remember how the Natural Rubber Market fell when Synthetic Rubber was produced?
You say The GDP of Sri Lanka in 2008 was $39.6 billion. The revenue from tea was $1.22 billion in 2008
You comparison has not COMPENSATED for the destruction caused by the introduction of Tea. You need to start from a point before that destruction occurred. Hence ALL what you say about Tea is based on erroneous assumptions and hence your conclusions are in error.
You ask me about employment.
The people would not be employed in the Tea industry as it would be extinct but they would be employed in Agriculture, Water management, Infrastructure Development and Maintenance, and many other support fields. Additionally Medical, Education, Commerce etc would employ many more.
In the absence of the Tea Industry Indian Labour would not have been indentured. The SL population would be less by about 6%. The SL Economy will not have to carry the burden of an Indian population and hence the SL population would be almost totally employed.
You say It does not really matter what primitive S. Lankan engineering methods produced. Regardless of whatever value they may have had 1000′s of years ago, they cannot compete with modern technology.
The Engineering Technology in SL was NOT primitive (please read what I wrote with care). At that point of time, it was World Class. In other words it was modern. It was more modern than most countries in the West (if not all) in the Fields SL excelled in. If we were not interrupted and our development continued today we would be on a par with the world in Modern Technology in the fields that we specialize in.
What is important to remember is that we had Human resources with brain power that was capable of improving on what we had.
You say Time to get out of your Mahavamsa fantasy world!
I did not quote the Mahavamsa which appears to be a thorn on your side. I quoted the British Governor General of SL Sir Henry Ward, Brohier (1934, 1937), Fernando, A.D.N. (1979), Parker (1981) and Perera (1984). Arumugam (1969). Read what I write without jumping into conclusions.
Three of them are British, One is a Tamil and only two are Sinhalese. I hope you can keep the discussion at an objective level.
If you want I can even quote from the Library of Congress in the USA but the results would be the same. So open your eyes to facts without allowing your prejudice to colour them
Dear Jaffna Tamil,
You said But to say that they were the best in The world, or in Asia or even in South Asia is a bit too much.
It was not I who commented on the greatness … I merely provided an extract from a report on an FAO website
Here is the relevant passage
“It was this (=biso-kotuwa) invention alone which permitted the Sinhalese to proceed boldly with the construction of reservoirs that still rank among the finest and greatest work of its kind in the world” (Parker, 1909, in Parker, 1981). ”
H. Parker is British and was employed by the Colonial Govt in the Dept of Irrigation of SL from 1873 to 1904. His book was first published in 1909 and the fourth (Indian) reprint was in 1999
Notice his words “…that still rank among the finest and greatest work of its kind in the world”
This was his assessment as an Irrigation Professional less than a Century ago not my own.
You further state
I enjoyed reading about ancient engineering expertise of the ancient Ceylonese. They did have magnificent engineering skills. …… The Romans of 2000 years ago had wonderful water suppy and irrigation systems. The Mayans of south americans had great systems, to mention a few. Romans built water aqueducts, some of which are still in operation.
I am glad you did. At last we have an “Edanda” the Snhala word for a Pole put across a stream for crossing it., a primitive bridge. Hope we can improve on it and build a bridge.
What you say about the Romans and the Mayans is true but the Lankan systems are older and far more complex with a network of interconnected reservoirs dating to 300 BCE (the Yoda Ela is unpaved but has an unbelievable gradient). Most of the Reservoirs and Canals are still functioning to this day.
You say I think here lies the problem. Everyone things that their culture is the best,
I don’t think that you have got my message here. It’s not about culture.
This discussion is about the Tea economy and the old Agricultural economy
The point I wanted conveyed is the existence of a Human Resource that is innovative, intelligent and second to none. All the Engineering that I mentioned was to prove this point. This is why Lankan’s were able to conquer the Dry Zone and Turn it into a fertile Agricultural Land. We still have the people as you yourself stated. We need to get out of the inferiority complex bred into us by centuries of Colonialism. We did it before and we can do it now.
Any Sri Lankan knows that there are aspects of Indigenous Medicine that are superior to Western Medicine. Treatment of fractures is a case in point. In short we need to marry the best of both worlds. What is required is a change of attitude.
Regarding the Mahavali Project, we needed financial help not engineering help. Unfortunately the loans came with attached strings that bleed a good part of the loan back to the lending country. The sub contracting for these projects were by Lankans.
Arumugam Plan
Eng. S Arumugam published a plan entitled “A River for Jaffna” in 1954 which became known as the Arumugam plan. His son Eng. Thiru provided a synopsis of the plan for a Pugwash workshop on “Learning from ancient hydraulic civilizations to combat climate change”, in Nov. 2007.
Notice the words Learning from ancient hydraulic civilizations
The plan was to use the Elephant Pass lagoon that has a surface area of about 30 square miles to hold the rainfall from the Vanni catchment area of about 363 square miles in the mainland. This is the Kanakarayan Aru basin and three smaller streams. A channel was to link the Vadamarachchi basin to the Elephant pass lagoon. The distance from Elephant Pass Lagoon to Vadamarachchi lagoon was 2.5 miles.
The work proceeded as follows
* Openings in the road and rail bridges in Elephant Pass causeway at the Western end of Elephant Pass lagoon were closed
* A bund was built in the 1950s, at the eastern end of Elephant Pass lagoon at Chundikulam. Unfortunately the Chundikulam bund was breached by heavy floods
* A 40 foot wide 2.25 mile long channel was built and only another 1/4 mile remained to be built to link Vadamarachchi lagoon to Elephant Pass lagoon. Then funds dried up.
* A barrage was built at Thondamanaru to close the exit to the sea and completed in 1953.
* Windmills were erected to draw water for cultivation.
* A barrage was built where the Upparu lagoon connects to the sea, to make Upparu a fresh water lagoon and completed in 1955. These gates are leaking at present
* Another channel linking Uppuru to Vadamarachchi was also built
* In 2007 President MR, released Rs: 100 million for restoration of Thondamannar barrage on the recommendation of Institute of Engineers SL .This is also completed now.
The Arumugam Plan
Lacking large fresh water reservoirs on the surface, Jaffna residents had to depend on water drawn from underground for her sustenance. Hence the Underground Water Table assumed vital importance to life in Jaffna.
There is a limestone aquifer that holds fresh water underground and for millennia the residents depended on it for a fresh water supply. However as agriculture and population increased and the demand for fresh water correspondingly increased, manual drawing of water was replaced by mechanized pumping. This proved disastrous to the water table as saline water seeped in and contaminated the wells. About 30% of wells were so contaminated along with the Agricultural land watered by them.
Jaffna receives about 50 inches of rainfall annually. Almost 90% of this is concentrated in the months of October, November and December and comes from the NE monsoon. The water that is not collected in the inland lakes or gets absorbed to the ground, run off to the sea and is lost. Nine months in a year they are at the mercy of the underground fresh water table.
The Elephant Pass lagoon has two openings to the sea. The one at the East Coast is at Chundikkulam. The one in the North West is to the Jaffna Lagoon at Elephant Pass. Straddling this Lagoon is the Chundikkulam Sanctuary. Blocking both these openings with a Bund would prevent Sea water ingress and would convert the lagoon to a fresh water lake with a water level higher than the sea level. Sluice gates and a spill way would control the amount of water. This water would then be delivered to the Vadamarachchi lagoon which would be converted to a lake by having a Dam with Sluice gates and a spillway at Thondamanaru. This will bring the water level of the new Vadamarachchi Lake higher than sea level
This essentially is the basic plan. It is a brilliant plan and is proof that Lanka’s Irrigation Engineering prowess is still alive. Perhaps one day the Jaffna lagoon will also get converted and eliminate for ever the fresh water problem in the North.
The longest Canal in the Arumugam plan is 4.02 Km
In comparison the Yoda Ela (Canal) is 89.6 Km
It is unfortunate that the implementation of the plan has taken so long, over 50 years. For three decades this area was out of reach but the conversion of the Vadamarachchi lagoon could have progressed.
I hope that the Tamil Diaspora would support this project in whatever way they could and make sure that the Northerners have an abundance of Fresh Water for their Agricultural and Daily needs.
Tamil Diaspora, will you rise to the challenge and do something to raise the living conditions of the Northern population this time, by providing them the most basic need for life, Fresh Water.
Off the Cuff:
I noticed that you did not back up your assertions with any economic data or economic indicators, e.g. GDP, GNP, exchange rates, etc. Instead, you have spouted some poppycock about a medieval economy based on subsistence agriculture… the key word there is “subsistence.” Regardless of the engineering marvels you keep referring to, why don’t you tell us exactly how many acres of land each family owned? What was the exact crop yield per bushel of land? Let us compare the yield from back then to what is possible now. As much as you go on about irrigation methods, irrigation is only one aspect of farming. There is also the *planting* aspect. Please mention all the forms of Sinhala-Buddhist technology around at the time which greatly accelerated and enhanced the planting process… Answer: none. There you go.
All of the other engineering feats you mention have easily been surpassed by modern *Western* technologies. Once again, if you disagree, all you have to do is post the data for crop yields and other agriculture output pertaining to the time. Unfortunately, the engineering capability at the time, as you know, was not enough to replace the water buffalo. Do you really think the water buffalo could compete with a modern tractor?
Now, you say the agricultural methods would have improved if the colonials had not come. I agree. Your Lankan engineers would have borrowed electricity, modern vehicles, modern tools, etc from the WEST. As you know, electricity was invented in the West. Regardless of how clever or ingenious the MECHANICAL devices built by Lankan engineers were, they cannot compete with their electrical equivalents. For example, you can stack some rocks in such a way as to control the flow of water. That is what your Lankan engineers would have done. But the output is limited. On the other hand, one can use a well-designed system of pipes, whose valves are controlled by microprocessors, to fine-tune the flow rate of water, achieving much greater efficiency.
Perhaps you still think that Lankan engineering, which did not rely on any electrical devices, can compete with modern technologies. I doubt most people would agree.
Dear Alpha,
I thought you had the intelligence to understand the statements copied below. Looks like I have been wrong. If you did, you would not be writing about the superior Technology of the West.
You and JT are the two people who are arguing that the Destruction of the Agricultural economy to establish a Tea economy was justified. Hence I hoped you and he both would be reading my replies to each of you. If you have not done so yet, please read my replies to Jaffna Tamil before you decide to put your foot in the mouth.
Time does not stand still for Sri Lanka while it moves ahead for the rest…. My post to you on February 13, 2010 @ 2:39 am
……Especially because as communication improved superior technology would get exported and imported…. my post to you on February 13, 2010 @ 2:39 am
….In short we need to marry the best of both worlds … my post to JT February 14, 2010 @ 12:46 am
You have ignored my point about the fall of the Tea market in Russia and its repercussions to SL
You have ignored my point about the “Complete Absence” of any Indentured Indian Labour and the burden of their descendants on the SL economy
You have ignored the fact that every country strives to achieve self sufficiency in food (food security)….which was where we were before Tea came in.
Now you state
I noticed that you did not back up your assertions with any economic data or economic indicators, e.g. GDP, GNP, exchange rates, etc
Have you forgotten that you have to use DATA at a point of time before the Agricultural industry was affected by Tea? So what do you think was the EXCHANGE rate for ‘Kahavanu’, ‘Masu’, ‘Ran’ and ‘Kahapanas’ or Portuguese currency the various monetary units used in SL in the 16 th century? I of course have no idea.
Income from Tea was ZERO at that time (no tea remember). So how do you start the comparison?
Remember that we were totally self sufficient in food
We did not import food but exported it
These are the two economic indicators that we know from that period
What twisted logic did you use to classify a country exporting food as doing “Subsistence” farming? Probably you don’t understand the meaning of the word. Check it out.
You say why don’t you tell us exactly how many acres of land each family owned?
I wouldn’t know about the land, would you? Land was not measured by “Acres” in that period but by the extent of grain that is sowed, such as “Amuna”, “Pela”, “Kuruni” etc. Some would have owned more land than others or may be there were large tracts of State owned Land cultivated as common land or may be all land was state owned. Not that all this matters to the discussion in hand.
You say What was the exact crop yield per bushel of land?
We are talking about the 16th century. Can you specify the EXACT details that you are asking from me in relation to the West? You are asking me in units of “Bushel of land” which is an unknown unit by the way. Land is not measured in Bushels or is it?
If you mean Bushels per Acre, I would have to ask you to provide the figures in the units used in SL, Kuruni per Amuna of land as I don’t know how to convert between the Western and SL systems.
Don’t pose silly questions about GDP, GNP, Exchange Rate etc you won’t have those Statistics for the 16th Century and neither would I.
You state For example, you can stack some rocks in such a way as to control the flow of water. That is what your Lankan engineers would have done.
Don’t put your intelligence (or lack of it) on public display by trying to “IMAGINE” with your puny knowledge, what a people whose expertise is recognized by professionals in the relevant fields would have done. I don’t know what your field of expertise is, but Engineering is not one of them.
BTW the Agriculture that SL practiced is “Sustainable Agriculture” or to use the modern equivalent “Organic Agriculture” sans Pesticides and types of fertilizer which destroy the fertility of the land over time. Organic farming is the trend now isn’t it?
I requested you to keep the discussion at an “Objective level” but you come out with semantics like …. Instead, you have spouted some poppycock…. I believe that you are thinking of something sans the poppy.
Meet the points raised in my post “One by One” if you can justify the destruction of a self sufficient Agricultural economy which provided COMPLETE Food Security to the country and exported the surplus food, into an economy exporting a non essential item to the world and becoming a prisoner of a fickle global Tea market
Dear OTC,
Either we can talk about the magnificence of of the ancient Ceylonese architecture, which is older and cite FAO studies and then get on the road and take one hour to get from Dehiwala to Fort choking on the smog or actually let the past be the past and develop the nation.
Sri Lanka’s infrastructure is 19th century, basically the same as what the British left us, 1948 and in most cases much worse.
Are you telling me with all the technological engineering skills (ancient and modern that Sri Lanka has, the Armugam plan could not have been implemented in the 54 years? How long did it take Mahasena to build his masterworks 2000 years ago?
It was the refusal of the successive Sinhalese governments to delolp the infrastructure in the North and east!
If you admit that we can start getting somewhere otherwise this discussion is an exercise in futility. As for Rajapakse allocating 100 million or 100 billion, that does not mean anything! One measures success of a project by its outcomes, not the alleged inputs!
OTC,
you say,,,”You and JT are the two people who are arguing that the Destruction of the Agricultural economy to establish a Tea economy was justified.”
I say no such thing and I suspect that Alpha isnt either. All I am saying is that Tea economy is a fact of life and no credible Sinhalese politician has ever had the guts demand that the tea economy should be reversed back to subsistence or even small farm agriculture.
The closest an SL Government came to change the status quo was to nationalize the tea estates. It was an unmitigated disaster.
I hope you have the decency to admit that if not for the indentured (but not in name) labor of the estate tamils would not have had the trade surplusus that came from Tea estates.
And SL did not invest and upgrade their tea growing technology. Kenya in the last 30 years has passed SL to become the 3rd largest tea exporter. One can either blame the british after 62 years or accept reality and join the race.
Standing on the sidelines and complaining is a waste of time
Off the Cuff:
“Especially because as communication improved superior technology would get exported and imported”
So you are admitting that ancient Lankan engineering is not enough to take the country (economy) forward? Thanks. What you didn’t mention is that the British brought quite a lot of that superior technology to colonial SL.
“Have you forgotten that you have to use DATA at a point of time before the Agricultural industry was affected by Tea? So what do you think was the EXCHANGE rate for ‘Kahavanu’, ‘Masu’, ‘Ran’ and ‘Kahapanas’ or Portuguese currency the various monetary units used in SL in the 16 th century? I of course have no idea.”
According to you, self-sufficiency in food is the only valid economic indicator. In which case, if the British had not “destroyed” the agricultural economy, the quantity produced before pre-colonial times should equal the quantity produced after/during colonial times and therefore the exchange rate should be similar. Of course this is assuming that only the superior brick and mortar technology of Lankan engineering is used in any irrigation process.
” Income from Tea was ZERO at that time (no tea remember). So how do you start the comparison? ”
We can look at some of the technology which was used back then for planting and harvesting:
1. Water buffalo
2. Spades
3. Hoe
4. Men, women, and children
Now we can look at technology that is used in modern farming:
1. Tractor
2. Feed grinder/mixer/processor
3. Planters/Row units
4. Auger
5. Bale Processor
6. Skid Steers
7. Disc Mower
8. Rotary Mower
9. Aerial crop dusting
Which set of technologies will lead to increased GDP? The answer is pretty obvious.
“Remember that we were totally self sufficient in food
We did not import food but exported it
These are the two economic indicators that we know from that period”
That does not adequately describe the standard of living at the time. Even when people had slaves (e.g. USA) the slaves did not starve to death – they had enough to eat. Having enough to eat, by itself, does not describe the well-being of a society.
“What twisted logic did you use to classify a country exporting food as doing “Subsistence” farming? Probably you don’t understand the meaning of the word. Check it out.”
My source is WICKRAMAGAMAGE P, from the Department of Geography, University of Peradeniya, Peradeniya, SRI LANKA. Unfortunately, he totally contradicts your Mahavamsa fantasy about a self-sufficient Buddhist kingdom:
“”At the time of the British conquest of the hill country, the population of the whole island was not more than 3/4 to 1 million and they had settled in isolated villages at elevations below 1066 m. Subsistence agriculture was the main occupation of this predominantly rural population.”"
http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=1615386
”
I wouldn’t know about the land, would you? Land was not measured by “Acres” in that period but by the extent of grain that is sowed, such as “Amuna”, “Pela”, “Kuruni” etc. Some would have owned more land than others or may be there were large tracts of State owned Land cultivated as common land or may be all land was state owned. Not that all this matters to the discussion in hand.”
Actually it DOES matter. You have forgotten all about the class system in place at the time.
——-
Caste as we know it today appears to have been introduced to Sri Lanka by Prakrit-language-speakers from North India. Whether the similar JÄ ti like separation of society existed prior to this invasion is unknown. There is evidence, in early historical chronicles, of the main vedic castes in the early Anuradhapura era, although it is possible that these categories were used as a literary convention. It has been posited by Bryce Ryan and others that the system as it exists in Sri Lanka is a preservation of that of early or pre-Vedic India, which bore little relation to the classic varna model.
The introduction of Buddhism in the 3rd century BCE blunted the edge of the system somewhat. However, there is a reference to King Dutugemunu Abhaya`s son, Saliya choosing to lose caste by marrying Asokamala, a Chandala or outcaste woman, in the 2nd century BC, indicating that caste taboos remained in place.
The later caste system seems to have evolved as much through waves of ethnic migration as by delineation by occupation. Also Sri Lankan monarchs seem to have overwhelmingly depended on South Indian manpower for functional needs such as menial tasks, weaving, crafts and ritual drumming.
Sinhalese Castes
================
As a result of the Mudaliyar class created by the British in the 19th century, the majority caste among the Sinhalese population now is the Goyigama. It appears that the Govigama comprise at least half the Sinhalese population. The traditional occupation of this caste is cultivation, and most members are still farmers in villages almost everywhere in Sri Lanka. In traditional Sinhalese society, they were the peasants but their status improved dramatically after the collapse of Sri Lanka`s traditional feudal system. Changes to land ownership concepts introduced by the Dutch liberated them from their bonds to the land. The Sinhalese system is divided between the Kandyan and Low country.
In the Kandy District of the highlands live the Batgama or Padu, another caste of agricultural laborers who have escaped the British period consolidation of the cultivator caste. Also untouchable Rodiya and the Kinnaraya who display the vestiges of a hunter gather tribe, were traditionally segregated from other groups because of their menial status. Living in all areas are service groups, such as the Hena or Rada, traditional washermen who still dominate the laundry trade the Berava, traditional temple drummers who work as cultivators in many villages and the Navandanna or Acari types are traditional artisans. The highland interior is home to the Vahumpura, or traditional makers of jaggery (a sugar made from palm sap), who have spread throughout the country in a wide variety of occupations, especially agriculture.
Southern Castes
===============
There are still major differences between the caste structures of the highlands and those of the low country, although some service groups are common to both. The southwest coast is home to three major castes other than the majority Goyigama common to both Low Country and Up Country, whose ancestors are believed have migrated from South India but who have become important actors in the Sinhalese social system: the Karave, the Durava and the Salagama.
These groups have exploited their traditional occupations and their coastal positions to accumulate wealth and influence during the colonial period. By the late twentieth century, members of southern castes, especially by the karavas, had moved to all parts of the country, occupied high business and academic positions. Formerly untouchable Rodiya and Kinnaraya are also found in the low country.
http://www.lankanewspapers.com/news/2008/1/24067_space.html
———————–
So this is the part of the history you like to deny: the fact that most Sinhalese owned very little land, performed subsistence farming, and were able to improve their status only during colonial times!
“If you mean Bushels per Acre, I would have to ask you to provide the figures in the units used in SL, Kuruni per Amuna of land as I don’t know how to convert between the Western and SL systems.”
And yet, know that the amount of land owned by the average Sinhalese peasant was so negligible that it is a foregone conclusion how much land they owned!
”
Don’t put your intelligence (or lack of it) on public display by trying to “IMAGINE” with your puny knowledge, what a people whose expertise is recognized by professionals in the relevant fields would have done. I don’t know what your field of expertise is, but Engineering is not one of them. ”
Anyone can LOOK at the structures assembled and all he will see are mechanical devices made out of NATURAL materials. You don’t need an engineering degree for that.
“BTW the Agriculture that SL practiced is “Sustainable Agriculture” or to use the modern equivalent “Organic Agriculture” sans Pesticides and types of fertilizer which destroy the fertility of the land over time. Organic farming is the trend now isn’t it?”
The word is subsistence farming, as per the geology guy from Peradeniya.
”
Meet the points raised in my post “One by One” if you can justify the destruction of a self sufficient Agricultural economy which provided COMPLETE Food Security to the country and exported the surplus food, into an economy exporting a non essential item to the world and becoming a prisoner of a fickle global Tea market ”
The British simply destroyed the forest cover in the Hill Country. Read the link I gave above from Peradeniya. I am pretty sure that you are exaggerating the rest of the so-called destruction. Why don’t you provide a few scholarly references to back up your claims?
Off the Cuff:
I cannot find any credible references in regards to the impact on agriculture, as per the introduction of tea by the British.
Forest Cover
When the British took over the island in the early in the early 19th century it is
likely that Sri Lanka’s forest cover probably was as high as 90%. Starting in
the 1830s the British cleared large tracts of forest mostly in the hilly central
region forest for cinchona and coffee and later for tea and rubber plantations.
In the 1880s after the British had spent fifty years clearing jungle for
plantations the forest cover was estimated to be around 80%. By the time the
Births left the island in 1948 the forest cover was down to about 54% to 50%.
—–
So if we go by statistics, the decline in forest cover by the British is from 90% to 50%, or 40%. On the other hand, the decline in the forest cover continued even after the British left:
“According to Data Ranking, SriLanka had forest cover of 30.0%
in 2000″
In fact, deforestation by the native Sri Lankan population continues today at an unprecedented rate:
“Between 1990 and 2000, Sri Lanka lost an average of 26,800 hectares of forest per year. This amounts to an average annual deforestation
rate of 1.14%.
The forest reserve of nearly 80% in 1886 was reduced to 70% in 1900,
44% in 1956, and is nearly 25% at present.
“The government has made its own contribution to forest clearance for
reasons that are connected to the war. To prevent the insurgents from
posing a threat to the safety of security personnel traveling on the main
roads in the north and east the government has cleared thousands of acres
bordering the roads in the war areas. More recently the government has
cleared jungle land to house IDPs from the war.”
The author is a Research Fellow at Global Vision. He is Senior Lecturer
in Geography, Peradeniya University and currently Visiting Professor
at Buffalo University, New York.
http://www.gvglobalvision.org/publications/Earth%20Day%202009.pdf
Let us summarize the above findings:
- The British did not destroy the agricultural economy of the island
- The British are responsible for massive deforestation in the Hill Country
- The native S. Lankans have continued deforestation even after the British left
- Most S. Lankans relied on subsistence farming to earn a living, before colonial times
- It was the British and other colonials who made it possible for S. Lankans to move beyond the barriers of caste/class and thereby achieve a higher economic/social status
Dear Alpha,
It appears your dishonesty in extracting what you wanted and leaving out the sections that reinforces what I said about Denuding the Forests in the river catchment area AND then Fraudulently accusing me by stating I am pretty sure that you are exaggerating the rest of the so-called destruction. is degrading to say the least. I have copied the full abstract below for reference and I believe no other “SCHOLARLY” reference would be required.
The forest cover in the hill country river catchment areas of Sri Lanka has been reduced to isolated patches on hilltops and a handful of reserves above the 1524 m (5000 ft) contour. Most of the land that was under forest cover at the turn of the nineteenth century is now covered with plantation crops.
The districts of Kandy, Matale, Nuwara Eliya, Badulla, Ratnapura and Kegalle are the main hill country plantation areas. Within a period of less than half a century most of the forests in the hill country were cleared for plantation crops. Shifting cultivation was responsible for deforestation in the drier parts of the hill country. At the time of the British conquest of the hill country, the population of the whole island was not more than 3/4 to 1 million and they had settled in isolated villages at elevations below 1066 m. Subsistence agriculture was the main occupation of this predominantly rural population. During the first phase (1830-1880) of the plantation industry, large tracts of mostly forest land were cleared for coffee cultivation. By 1878, the extent of the coffee plantations reached its maximum of 111336 ha most of which was situated in the wet zone hill country.
The second phase of plantation agriculture began as the coffee industry was completely wiped out by a leaf disease. Most of the abandoned coffee plantations and the remaining forests were converted to tea, rubber and cinchona estates. The first two crops managed to survive price fluctuations in the world market, while the latter collapsed because of over production. During the period of large-scale deforestation in the hill country, the climate also underwent changes as exemplified by rainfall and temperature trends.
However, these trends are not uniform everywhere in the plantation areas of the hill country. The temperature has risen a few degrees over a period of about a century and quarter in the hill country stations, while rainfall has declined significantly at some stations. These changes seem to be a result of the interaction of both global and local factors. Although some of these changes would have been a result of global warming, land use change would also have contributed to regional disparities.
As a Result of Denuding Forest cover in catchment areas, Rivers get less water
With lower volume of water, down stream reservoirs get less water for irrigation and power generation
With less water Agriculture produces lower yields
There is no UNDERGROWTH in a Tea Plantation which results in Soil Erosion (any Tamil who worked in an estate will confirm it)
Loss of top soil makes the land unsuitable for cultivation.
Do you agree to the above? Please give your reasons if you do not agree.
You wrote “The British simply destroyed the forest cover in the Hill Country. Read the link I gave above from Peradeniya”
Did you read it?
Alpha, thank you for providing the link to the above document
Quirk of fate that it proved the depth of your dishonesty
This is part 1 ….more will follow
Off the Cuff:
Your claim was that the British destroyed the agricultural industry in SL.
This is what you said:
” “Off the Cuff said,
February 13, 2010 @ 2:39 am
My contention is that the destruction that was done to the Existing Agricultural economy in order to establish that Tea economy does not compensate for the destruction done. “”
—————————–
The above report mentions nothing about damage to the pre-existing agriculture of the time. You have added your personal conclusion to the argument:
“As a Result of Denuding Forest cover in catchment areas, Rivers get less water
With lower volume of water, down stream reservoirs get less water for irrigation and power generation
With less water Agriculture produces lower yields
There is no UNDERGROWTH in a Tea Plantation which results in Soil Erosion (any Tamil who worked in an estate will confirm it)
Loss of top soil makes the land unsuitable for cultivation.”
You have merely made the contention that deforestation leads to soil erosion. However, the extent of the soil erosion can vary greatly… you have not proved that such soil erosion had any significant impact on the agricultural economy of SL. In fact, clearing away forests for cultivation would actually increase the size of the agricultural economy, not decrease it. Less water does not lead to lower agricultural yields; ever heard of dry farming? In any case, why don’t you post the levels of annual rainfall in SL during the British times, in the Hill Country, over a large number of years…. let us see if there is a significant decline. If there is not, then you have no case. Also, there was never any famine or other such disaster in SL during the British time.
Like I said before, your claim that the British destroyed the agricultural industry is false. And you do not have any scholarly sources to back up your claim. Adding your own conclusions to a report about deforestation is rather dishonest.
Dear Alpha,
You are just trying to play Hide & Seek.
Please tell us what you understand by the following extract from the report quoted by you.
The forest cover in the hill country river catchment areas of Sri Lanka has been reduced to isolated patches on hilltops and a handful of reserves above the 1524 m (5000 ft) contour. Most of the land that was under forest cover at the turn of the nineteenth century is now covered with plantation crops.
I understand it as an EXTENSIVE Destruction of Catchment Area of Rivers.
Resulting in Low Rainfall
Higher Temperatures
Higher Evaporation of surface water (due to elevated temperature)
Reduced water volume of rivers
Reduced inflow to down stream Reservoirs
Reduced hydro power generation
Reduced water collection in down stream Agricultural Reservoirs
Reduced water availability for Cultivation
Reduced Crop Yields due to lower availability of water
Reduced water availability for Human consumption
Alpha, can you contest anyone of those statements using Logic or Science? If you can, please provide your reasons for EACH of the above that you reject.
If you cannot dispute the above, is it not destruction?
How can it be termed Exaggeration?
This is another extract from the same report “During the period of large-scale deforestation in the hill country, the climate also underwent changes as exemplified by rainfall and temperature trends. However, these trends are not uniform everywhere in the plantation areas of the hill country. The temperature has risen a few degrees over a period of about a century and quarter in the hill country stations, while rainfall has declined significantly at some stations.”
Hence how do you propose to maintain the charge that you made which is copied below?
“The above report mentions nothing about damage to the pre-existing agriculture of the time.” and your previous comment “I am pretty sure that you are exaggerating the rest of the so-called destruction.”
Copying from “scholarly sources” is useless, unless you possess the Intelligence to interpret them.
If you have ever visited a Tea Estate or have even seen one with an observing mind you could not have failed to note that there is No Undergrowth under Tea
Absence of Undergrowth on a slope results in continuous soil erosion.
When such erosion takes place over an Area in excess of 111336 ha (the figure in 1878 and today its 2010) that erosion is Massive.
What are you interested in, a TRUTHFUL discussion or Hyperbole?
Off the Cuff:
I am looking hard, but I see no statistics to back up your claim. If you can provide statistics, then you will have made a point. Your argument is essentially this:
Because event A has happened, event A has happened in the worst way possible
My argument is this:
Event A has happened, but no conclusion can be drawn to imply that it has happened in the worst way possible.
Please provide statistics for the following:
Resulting in Low Rainfall
Higher Temperatures
Higher Evaporation of surface water (due to elevated temperature)
Reduced water volume of rivers
Reduced inflow to down stream Reservoirs
Reduced hydro power generation
Reduced water collection in down stream Agricultural Reservoirs
Reduced water availability for Cultivation
Reduced Crop Yields due to lower availability of water
Reduced water availability for Human consumption
If you cannot provide statistics, then it is logical to assume your argument is based on unproved assumptions. On the other hand, if your argument is based onunproved assumptions , then the possibility exists that such assumptions are in fact wrong.
Dear Alpha,
“I am looking hard, but I see no statistics to back up your claim. If you can provide statistics, then you will have made a point” you wrote
Looks like you are very myopic indeed. I am afraid corrective lenses wont be able to help you with this sort of Myopia.
Intellectual Dishonesty seems to be deeply ingrained with you.
Wasn’t it you who quoted the Scholarly Report?
That Scholar from the Peradeniya University has given the conclusions in the report you quoted AFTER studying statistics. That is why he is writing about TRENDS
The claim about Rainfall and Temperature rise is not mine, it’s in the University don’s report that You Quoted.
Having difficulty in reading?
Hope you understand how a Scholar arrives at Trends or is that too much to expect from you ?
If you don’t know what a Trend means, Analysis of Statistics would be way out of reach of your intellectual capacity or the lack of it.
You are now trying in vain to contest the report you yourself quoted.
Hyperbole at it’s best
Off the Cuff:
The author does not assume a worst-case scenario, like you do. And he does not say that deforestation is the only reason for temperature and rainfall decrease.
“The temperature has risen a few degrees over a period of about a century and quarter in the hill country stations, while rainfall has declined significantly at some stations. These changes seem to be a result of the interaction of both global and local factors. Although some of these changes would have been a result of global warming, land use change would also have contributed to regional disparities.”
Summary
1. Global and local factors
2. Global warming
3. Land use change
Try harder Off the Cuff! As I said, the key word here is statistics. Even though there is a decline, only statistics can indicate the extent of the decline. In the absence of such statistics, your assumptions about deforestation amount to nothing.
*temperature increase and rainfall decrease.
Once again, note the causes that the author gives at the end of the report. He does not attribute everything to deforestation.