A Continuation of War by Other Means?
The war it seems is not over. The international conspiracies to save Prabhakaran and the LTTE are now said to have morphed into a conspiracy to destabilize the government, initiate regime change and charge its leading lights and war heroes with war crimes. The opposition and civil society activists are said to be key figures in this decidedly and dangerously unpatriotic exercise.
A English language broadsheet during the week quoted the Minister of Transport and leading light of the current regime as saying this and in doing so making a link between the Channel 4 video and the fate of the GSP Plus extension. Whilst the regime’s argument is that the sole purpose of this purported conspiracy is to destabilize and replace it, the question does arise as to whether the airing of such allegations in the first instance without substantiation with hard facts, is not destabilizing in itself? Is there a conspiracy abroad as alleged or, is there a most disturbing paranoia and over-exaggeration of threats to national security at the heart of the regime? Are we in a post-war situation heading steadily towards a post conflict one, as we should, or are we in a situation of a continuation of war by other means?
It is clear that the central issue here is human rights and the record of the regime on this score. This is what GSP Plus revolves around. Likewise, the Chanel 4 video. Human rights is at the very core of the plight of the IDPs – the unquestionably central and urgent issue impacting on our future and the litmus test for peace, reconciliation and unity. Demonstrable progress on this issue is surely possible and to no one’s detriment? On the contrary, it is centrally and self –evidently in the national interest.
Argument and assurance are surely insufficient without action embodying sincerity of purpose and commitment.  Were it to be the case that the regime is feeling the “heat” internationally on account of GSP Plus, the Pasocoe visit, the Tissanayagam verdict and the impending war crimes report to the US Senate, is it not both prudent and politic to address the overarching issue of human rights accountability and the culture of impunity in a mature and sensible fashion aimed at strengthening protection and accountability?
Is this the real problem? An unwillingness and/or inability to deal with the human rights challenge. Conspiracy theories, denunciations and allegations cannot be a substitute for sincere and concerted action. A rights based approach on the IDP issue in particular is long overdue. As this columnist amongst others has argued many times, freedom of movement of the IDPs is of paramount importance. The regime has announced its willingness to allow relatives to take in IDPs in the event the latter are willing to go to host families. This has yet to be expedited. There are reports that IDPs have been let out of the Menik Farm complex only to be relocated in other “transit” camps. It would seem that the onset of the monsoon and international concern is being translated into a prioritization of decongestion of the Menik Farm complex as opposed to the prioritization of the freedom of movement of citizens of this country who happen in this instance to be Tamil – monsoon or no monsoon, international concern or silence.
There is yet another serious concern. Is every criticism of the regime, even of the mildest variety, every alternative perspective on public affairs and national priorities to be treated as products of a conspiracy for regime destabilization and change? I have written about the politics of hate and hurt and harm and of fear and insecurity.  It appears to be still with us; firmly entrenched and corroding our prospects for democratic governance. This is the time for a vigorous and robust national debate and discussion on how to move forward. This is the time to be the functioning democracy we claim to be.
The widespread expectation is of presidential and parliamentary elections in the course of the next six months. Were this to be the case, these elections will come at a crucial juncture in our history at which the opportunity presented for peace, reconciliation and national unity is tremendous. The mandate of the people at these elections will in addition to registering their appreciation of the military defeat of the LTTE also be one for rejuvenating the potential of this country for peace and prosperity. The current trend of conspiracy and insecurity will not merely obscure this promise but effectively obliterate it in a frenzy of recrimination, allegation and abuse. Is the country going to have to choose on the basis of conspiracy theories, allegations and counter – allegations?
We cannot keep going back to the future. The war ended. The LTTE was defeated. If it must be the case, that war alone sustains and underpins our current governance, can it be waged against the culture of impunity in respect of human rights violations? And can the weapons be the Rule of Law and international human rights standards.
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The IDPs are being treated like herds of cattle.Only a few sinhala and tamil politicians are objecting, but the government couldnt care less it appears, and is more concerned on entrenching it self and the president, for many more years. Every brutal regime in history has met a bad end. The only hope is that this will happen sooner than later. Tamils are helpless.
UN is impotent, as are the other democracies.
Well said PS. Of course, this regime knows the cost incurred on these follies but politics takes precedence over anything else. Such is the short-sightedness of MR that he wants to remain as a politician. to the core that is, rather evolving and emerging as a statesman. I remember the times when Indonesia was going through a turmoil soon after Suharto had been forced to step down. Habibi, Suharto’s deputy had taken over and Timor Leste was everywhere in the news, and there were chorus of voices to object to Timor’s independence. I was one of those who had written to Habibe to rise above his political closet and that he will be remembered in history more kindly than his predecessor. The rest is history.
In the case of SL, there is consensus that division of the country is a no-no and even the TNA had extended the support to MR. However, because of his narrow thinking and petty politics, what would have been a historical opportunity to have healed the simmering wounds between the communities and be remembered in history as one who could have brought the country together in the real sense, he is very busy chasing ghosts, apparently nothing different from his predecessors.
All in all, the conspicuous goodwill extended by the home crowd and the international community has been screwed-up high time and MR is singing hosanas to the home crowd, and blaming everyone in the world for losing the GSP + except himself. Of course, there cannot be any doubt that he knows too of the requirements to be fulfilled to get it but perhaps he thought that he would forever be lucky. Rather the depletion of goodwill on taking on the LTTE is real and now the attention has turned to breathing heavily on SL. his high and mighty posture will be his undoing, perhaps not in the way that he had expected to go down in history.
I thought Sri Lankan governments could get no worse than what we saw in the 1980s and ’90s. I have to hand it to the Rajapakse militia for proving me so wrong. These guys make Latin American dictators look like milquetoast Disney characters.
Free the tamils or more pirabaharan will be born.
“Argument and assurance are surely insufficient without action embodying sincerity of purpose and commitment.” – PS
PS more than anyone else know sincereity and commitment are not qualities one can force on another – its either there or not. Unfortunately in Sri Lanka’s case its the latter. The nation will continue to drift until the rural SInhalese become more enlightened – perhaps in about another 50 years!
The govt have to show now reconciliation with Tamils for peace than before peace become illusive . The diaspora collected relief supplies are still lying in Colombo with out speedy and needy clearance, is this the way to reach out to Tamils?
Humanity don’t hold any value without magmanity and accountability in it.
Dear Dr. Saravanamuthu, its a good analysis of realities in the ground. But its the belief of many academics,analysts and scholars alike is that “There cannot be peace without Justice, equality and Human rights for the Tamils”. An Independent international War crimes investigations to bring to books all perpetrators of crimes against humanity, genocide of Tamils resulting in punishment for all criminals, then a reconcilliation process that is open, transparent and fair. Immeadite ceasation of colonisation, preservation of Tamil homeland, and return of the IDPs are the criticial actions to move the country forward. Without all of this, there will never and cannot be Peace in Sri Lanka. It’s the sad reality Mahinda and other Singala regimes face today.
The mafia trinity of west i.e. underworld terrorist mafia, economics mafia and political mafia eying less developed countries. So called free media is used as a tool. The west depend on lies and they very much a burden to the civilized world.
Third world countries : so called corporation requred oterwise u end up as another irak.. they are exporting poverty and missery .
“Likewise, the Chanel 4 video” – recently another version of Chnanel 4 video was released where the shooters speak in tamil, and also ask if they got the pic? which version do you believe is real as it haseffect on which side is blamed?
“We cannot keep going back to the future. The war ended. The LTTE was defeated” but as a supporter of non-viloence which would have prolonged the war, how can you make statements like this? you actively tried to stop the way the war was won ??
Tony:
It is the same west you have branded as mafia that MR and the gang are now desperately trying to get the GSP+ from. Wherein lies your argument and logic. Without the UN funding the internment camps, where do you think SL is going to get the money from? May be from its buddy Burma!!!
aloka:
I won’t be surprised if another one surfaces with those in the video talking in English. Why all this hoo-haa? Get independent investigators to once and for all determine its autheticity unless you suggest that SL has something to hide. During the final phase of the war SLG was emphatically and grossly understating the numbers held back by the LTTE supposedly based on its own reliable figures. Well, we all know how the truth emerged.
Tony and Aloka:
Have you noticed the recent statements made by MR? The international community says that there should be an independent investigation into “possible” war crimes by both sides to the war. MR says he will defend his soldiers from war crimes and take the blame as the commander-in-chief? Why do you think he did not want to go the UN assembly and instead sent his PM, who by all means is known as one with no blood in his hands? Palitha Kohona’s appointment as the PR to the UN carries with it diplomatic immunity, and there needn’t be any guesses. From Gotabaya to Sarath Fonseka, I doubt they will take the risk of travelling to the west in the normal way. Even those generals who have blood in their hands are being appointed as ambassadors which, of course, carries the diplomatic immunity tag. Go figure yourself.
Sara,
Interesting article. You have written on the relevent issues, but there is one other thing which needs to be added and that is the question of racism. I am of the opinion that the attitude of the general public has become even more racist after the war ended. I cannot understand why that is so. I am looking at the public as a separate entity from the Government. This is a time to build bridges and mend fences with the Tamil people. This is a unique opportunity, but I am quite sure that this opportunity for peace will be lost. The simple reason is that the SL public is in no mood for peace.
As MJD said in his post “The nation will continue to drift until the rural SInhalese become more enlightened – perhaps in about another 50 years!”
I will also add that it is not only the rural sinhalese, but the urban sinhalese with a so called education are also to blame. Education has done very little to make people less racist or non racist.
As somebody talks about English version and Tamil version and SinhaLIE version. This is Sri Lanka mate you can get any version. You can even get any passport. Get the judge to pass any sentence. Put any body in government or in jail .Tell anything. And people are not ashamed to be this anything. They are very proud to Lie and cheat. This has become the recognizable character of Sri Lankans all over the world. If you go to any of the Sri Lankan blog site you will be ashamed to see what they write.This is the result of the hard work done by your leaders monks and culture.What else you expect in the land of the LIEon. Lie Lanka Matha Appe Lie Lanka ….. .
To Jansee’
1 The write mentions C4 video as a HR issue while not accepting the possibility its doctored.. while a new version has come so first of all, we need to indentify if this is real actually? – what you say is everytime a person fakes a video GOSL has to appoint a committee and prove its not true? should the burden be on the accuser?
2. to satrt with shouldn’t all non-war supporter accept that the general population in north and east is at a better position now than they were under the LTTE? yet to see that from some of these people…and untill that happens none of the general (Rural and Urban war supporters will accept these proposals)
niranjan:
It is true that the average Sinhalese (both rural and urban) is opinionated in favour of supremacy. This war, although asserted by the ruling party as one against terrorism, was, for all intent and purpose, fought against the Tamils. Even in Colombo, who got more harassed – the Tamils. Sarath Fonseka had made it clear in no uncertain terms of this theory of Sinhala supremacy. The MR regime led by its defence secretary is hell-bent on establishing and maintaining this theory. With such leaders around, what would be the views and opinions of the general populace?
aloka:
Yes my dear, that is the responsibility of a so-called democratically elected govt that each time such an accusation surfaces. Well, that is the price this regime has to pay for conducting a war without witnesses and being recalcitrant to the point of denying access to the war zone and to talk to the people in the internment camps freely even to this day. Might want to think that SL shot at its own foot. Be prepared for many accusations to come along the way and it will be futile, if not impossible, for this regime to hide or run away from the truth. After all, haven’t you heard “tell the truth and shame the devil”.
How do you know the idps are better off now than they were under the LTTE? This is what this regime tells you and wants you to believe. We have no quarrel over a ruthless regime (LTTE) manipulating the people but at least the people were not uprooted from their abode and their hospitals not bombed. How can detaining 300,000 people in internment camps and to languish there be cited as anything better than were their condition before? Mind you, even the opposition politicians are not allowed into these camps – why, why why??? What more can one say – to defend the indefensible is outright hypocrisy.
This is what UK gets up to http://bit.ly/2dP43
Then Miliband come over to inquire our war, wearing pants as well. How can we take him seriously? lol At the same time they rip off tax payers to have a good time.
What can u do they have nukes to muscle countries around. Only thing they don;t have is shame..
“Why all this hoo-haa? Get independent investigators to once and for all determine its autheticity unless you suggest that SL has something to hide.”
Independent invetigators? Oh..Please….
Is there exists such things?
Why do not those who asking for independent investigation, analyse the ch4 video by themselves and if there is any truth raise the issue with war crime tribunal or UN.
I believe FBI has enough experts to give proper ananyse,
May be NASA could help..
Jansee,
It looks like SL govt is continuing with the investigation.
Hope that truth will come out..
“A story published in the Lakbima newspaper on the 23rd under the headline “Assistance from German Police sought to investigate into journalists who manufactured the Channel 4 video,” states the Defence Ministry has requested for help from the German Police to investigate into members of JDS, which is said to have given the video showing Army soldiers shooting at several Tamil civilians to Britain’s Channel 4.
“
Jansee, yes most Sinhalese believe this island belongs to the Sinhalese people. But no one complains about Tamil Nadu and the politics of identity behind that entity do they? Tamils have their Tamil Nadu (lit. Tamil Country) and the Sinhalese have their Sri Lanka. If every single Tamil can stand up and say that Tamil Nadu doesn’t belong to Tamils and that it is not Tamil land and that Tamils are migrants there from the rest of India, then I don’t think the Sinhalese will have a problem with saying the same about Sri Lanka. As long as Tamils have their Tamil Nadu, the Sinhalese will have their Sri Lanka, whether others like it or not.
very well said Nimesh..it is the absolute truth It is our Human right to call Sri Lanka the Homeland of the Sinhalese ..it s not racism..?is telling the truth racism?
Hmm . . “It looks like SL govt is continuing with the investigation.
Hope that truth will come out..”
This is what is known as a non sequitur. Never mind. Can I congratulate ericsor, Nimesh, Observer, and the peerlessly barmy Susantha, for taking what was briefly a calm and thoughtful discussion and turning it into an incoherent and semi-literate celebration of the righteousness and strength of . . .of what? Of being “us”. If you don’t like “us” get out. If you don’t like what “we” do to people, you’re wrong. “We” didn’t do anything and even if “we” did “we” are allowed to because you gave us toxic colonial theories about race and Dravidians and invasions and anyway “we” were here first, and we took the colonial theories and gleefully made them “our” theories. Crippled minds indeed. Shame about the bodies crippled by recent displays of “us”-ness. But they are “them” and don’t count. Such maturity. Such humanity.
“It looks like SL govt is continuing with the investigation.
Hope that truth will come out..”
How can an investigation into abuse by the Army be independent if two of the “investigators” are themselves Army Personnel? All four of the investigators are Sinhalese. Yes, a foreign investigator should be invited to the case. There is nothing wrong with this. Foreign experts are often called in to do autopsies, as with the Premadasa assassination and recently the murder of the four Trinco students. It is not about conspiracy to stabilize – Sri Lanka does not have the resources/expertise to conduct such investigations. That is why the man in Australia was called, but he is not neutral by any means.
*Trinco five
*Conspiracy to destabilize
“yes most Sinhalese believe this island belongs to the Sinhalese people. ”
On the other hand, what is the relevance of such a sentiment when most Sinhalese intellectuals and professionals choose to live overseas? Educated people these days care little for mythology; in that sense, a multicultural, ethnically diverse society is more beneficial.
The politics of identity is not mutually exclusive from the economics of globalization.
Heshan et. al,
You really don’t want permanent stability in Sri-Lanka do you? Ah…poor baby, this means you will have to go out and get a job like everyone else. Human rights politics has got your pockets nicely lined, eh?
Well your charade will eventually be exposed for what it is: robbing poor Sri-Lankans blind and living off the proceeds of terrorism. “Civil Society” indeed! You people are personally responsible for bringing Sri-Lankan Tamils down to such a pitiful level today. We have lost our self-respect and even the basic rights we once had because of opportunists like you.
Quit telling Tamil people what to do! Get a life!
Jansee,
I take your point. However, if the people are intelligent they would not believe everything the authorities say. The people need to think for themselves. I blame the education system(schools-universities) in this country for the way our people(Sinhalese, Tamils, Muslims etc) are conditioned to think. Rational objective thinking is obviously not our strong point. We get carried away by emotion. Maybe the 25 year old war has made us into what we are or was it always the case that we lacked rationality and objectivity in our thinking ?
Quoted from the article
Human rights is at the very core of the plight of the IDPs – the unquestionably central and urgent issue impacting on our future and the litmus test for peace, reconciliation and unity.
Unquote
The writer, Dr. P. Saravanamuttu, has clearly identified the main issue.
The war by the LTTE was fought on several fronts besides the military front. The military operations came to a stop when the guns were silenced and top leaders were killed.
The war propaganda which used HR issues in its many forms to attack SL continues unabated. Rather, it has increased in intensity, after the demise of the MILITARY leaders caught up on the final offensive on the LTTE. This is not surprising as those who led the offensive for the LTTE on the HR front escaped any harm and continue to be highly active today.
Currently the main focus is on the IDPs.
Who are these IDPs?
Where were they before they ended up in camps?
What HR rights did they enjoy before?
Are they better off in comparison to what they suffered BEFORE they arrived in camps (if there was any suffering at all)?
Is there a threat to the safety of the 20,000,000 people inhabiting SL from any, within the confines of these camps?
How can such a threat be nullified if such a threat exists?
How many people stood up for the suffering that these Tamil people underwent BEFORE they became classified as IDPs?
These questions are begging for honest answers but very little are forth coming. All that is seen is rhetoric that inflames racist feelings and attempts at driving the wedge further into the divide
Its time to stop the lies, deception, hypocrisy, double standards and inequitable demands.
Hopefully the moderate intelligentsia would set an example
Leon you got the picture man……..we are in a position of power now and we can do as we like
observer:
Torture by those detained are in abundance in SL. Have you forgotten the “infamous” white vans. The cold-blooded murder of five students. Look within the shores of SL and with your mind wide open and you sre sure not to miss the target. Ok, the western world create whatever bombs, but they do with their own money. Where do think the money came from for the MR regime to buy all those arms and bombs? Have you forgotten that the UN is sustaining the IDPs internment camps? Please don’t throw stones from a glass house?
Ericsor:
You must have been sleeping all this while. Those who published the video claim it is genuine and authentic and that is the reason why they are chiding SL. I would assume the UN also supports this view as it too has asked for an investigation. Whereas the SL govt, based on its own investigation, says it is a doctored version. Now with opposing views and precisely for this reason that an independent investigation has been called for and if you still do not get it, both parties must agree to parties as being independent, otherwise accusations would start being hurled again.
Off the Cuff:
When you mean “moderate intelligentsia”, how would you rate the resent ruling regime? By the way, did you watch the Daily Mirror’s interview with Dayan Jayatileka? I do share some of his views and have expressed exactly some of those. If this regime had moved fast on the reconciliation and implementation of the 13th Amendment, it would not be surrounded by so many accusations. The expression of sincerity by the MR regime has too many punctured holes and now it has the daunting task of plugging all those holes. Talking about credibility, there is practically NIL.
Jansee
The questions posed in my post are still begging for answers. Wonder why you chose to ignore them. Are they that difficult?
Moderate means just that.
A moderate would look at a problem sans coloured glasses.
Unfortunately, you don’t seem to fit that description
I did not try to rate anyone in my post. But if you are looking for my assessment I believe that a Govt of the caliber of MR’s came to power 27 years too late. Well, better late than never.
What is the reconciliation that you are talking about?
You seem to be having a memory loss of one form or the other like ALL LTTE apologists.
Your hero and his gang were murdering innocents by the thousands. Sinhalese, Muslims and even Tamils who were shot and had legs amputated. Their barbarism was all pervading and not limited to a specific race. What was the aim? Was it not to establish an enclave administered exclusively by the Tamils?
When your Prabha was offered the North and the East to rule over, WITHOUT ANY ELECTION for 10 years, what was the response?
Why did the SL President make such an offer knowing very well it would be political suicide and would be overwhelmingly opposed?
Was it not an attempt at a reconciliation that goes far beyond anything?
The following statement of yours very clearly exhibits your mindset
quote
“Ok, the western world create whatever bombs, but they do with their own money”
Unquote
So “MONEY” is God in your part of the world is it?
If you are RICH you are allowed to violate all human norms, is that your “LOGIC”?
No wonder you cant see the atrocities committed during the Iraq war by the US and the Brits. The Abu Grhaibs, Guantanamo, Special renditions, etc. Depopulation of Chagos, Londendary bloody Sunday massacres, Killing of Millions by the French in Indo China and Algeria, Drone attacks on Pakistan, Carpet fire bombing of Dresden, the list goes on and on.
Sorry to disillusion you, but currently the US economy is propped up by a TRILLION US Dollars from China
Your logic is great. How in the world can you equate “proof of facts” with a “claim without proof”? Probably that is how courts in your part of the world operate.
The SL Govt has published technical data PROOVING the Channel 4 Video is doctored. They have also questioned how dead men move their legs and what does Channel 4 do? Have they disproved what the SL Govt says? Channel 4 is caught with its pants down
A similar attempt was made by the London Times some time back.
After being flown over the NFZ along with Ban Ki Moon by the SL Govt itself, they published a cooked up story shamelessly advertising it as a scoop.
In that story their so called Independent Defense Experts stated that bombardment with Air Burst and Ground impact mortars cause “INTENSE HEAT” that can burn down trees to “STUMPS” and cause destruction over a wide area
The pictures they carried had “UNBURNT” tents and undamaged vegetation. The “INTENSE” heat could not even burn plastic or cloth, let alone live trees. The burnt tree stumps were no where to be seen.
They used a picture of a LTTE graveyard to reinforce their argument. That picture had ABSOLUTELY no signs of ANY bombardment. ALL vegetation was intact. There wasn’t a SINGLE bomb crater. The picture was obviously of a LTTE grave yard no where near the war zone. It was very cunningly introduced in the commentary to mislead the viewer.
So much for truthful reporting.
The Times however, would have increased its circulation by at least 100,000 as every Tamil family in the UK would have bought it after that.
Its better that you modify the advice you gave to “Observer” appropriately for your own use
Instead of bickering till the cows come home and writing inflammatory comments that drives the wedge deeper into the divide, engage in a constructive discussion aimed at an EQUITABLE solution for all
@ Das
“The IDPs are being treated like herds of cattle”
[Edited out]. You have never been to an IDP camp as the looks of it. It’s not as good as what GOSL describes to be, but certainly not as bad as what groundviews and other alternate media trying to paint of. Let’s face the hard truth. IDPs in Menik Farm are certainly well off than 15,000 muslims who have been chased away by LTTE, in their ethnic cleansing program, live under much worse conditions in Puttlam for nearly 15 years. But no one from this so called “free” media, or donkeys like Das even talk about them. Why? because that will tarnish the image of diaspora, who helped a bunch of racists.
“Every brutal regime in history has met a bad end”
LTTE regime of North ended like wise. Isn’t it?
“Tamils are helpless”
They are helpless because they don’t accept that Sinhalese are the majority.
“UN is impotent, as are the other democracies.”
That has been well known. When LTTE was murdering civilians, so called democratic countries allowed LTTE to raise funds in their soil. Hypocratic may be a better word.
@ Heshan
“On the other hand, what is the relevance of such a sentiment when most Sinhalese intellectuals and professionals choose to live overseas? ”
If there was an example for lying through teeth, above would be the best example
There are about 32,000 doctors working / worked in SL. 25,000 are currently working. 5,000 are dead or retired. only 2,000 have left the country. That is about 6%. 94% are still living in this country.
Off the Cuff:
If you [say] something against this govt, then you belong to the LTTE camp. I, never for once, mentioned anywhere that I support the LTTE. In fact, I detest and abhor their activities, especially when those against their views and innocent civilians were murdered. The problem with guys like you, the same warped view of anything against this brutal and as equally murderous regime seems to have rubbed on you people. Why talk about Prabha and/or his minions? They are no more here. As much as Prabha has blood in his hands, so does this regime. Again, your version of reconciliation can be and mean only one thing – with the LTTE which is no more. What about the 250,000 people detained in internment camps? What has this govt got to hide? Why it is not allowing independent verification of what happened to the people and how many actually lost their lives (whether caused by the LTTE or this regime) because two group of murderers decided to pit one against the other? My Prabha it seems, my foot? So your MR is what? Well, this hero of yours is going to find the difficult way that he cannot sweep everything under the carpet forever. Your analogy that Prabha happens to do this and that gives a passport for MR’s regime similar acts. Well, my dear fellow, continue living in the small world MR has created for you and sleep on the lies as long as he can, because the truth is going to catch up with him sooner than he thinks. The equitable solution that you are talking about – does the herding of the IDPs in internment camps also one?
Migara’
“They are helpless because they don’t accept that Sinhalese are the majority”
So, are you telling us that for the Tamils to be in a majority, they should have their own Eelam”? Then they can be in the majority, don’t they?
I think you are wrong here? What is there to accept the Sinhalese as the majority? They are, whether Tamils accept it or not, but are the views and actions of majority always right? That is why we have the fundamental rights enshrined in the constitution. And that is why even among the Sinhalese, there are diverse views as how a govt should be run – with the different parties offering their own views and understanding. This, too, applies to Prabha who never allowed such democratic space.
jansee, look Sri Lankan secret service uses white vans and the CIA uses unmarked Learjets – common knowledge. All I care RAW can use red buses and Mossad can use white BMWs. They’re all in the same game!
So what? Every country has their top echelon counter-terrorist units that operate very secretively. Mainly for speedy operations and to prevent compromise.
It’s unfortunate if you have to get involved with such units. But that’s a risk you take when you get into the business of terrorism. Accept the risks and be good sports about it, if you’re planning on a killing spree.
See the thing is I’m not in denial about this whole torture thing. It’s a necessary evil to protect the innocent. Sure some go overboard with it like the examples with US & UK has shown. I’m just sayin that they should deal with those rogue elements within their defense establishments before preaching to the world. Mind you they will never allow an independent inquiry by the UN. They’ll just do their own investigation which you really can’t trust. Why? They have skeletons in their closet and most of all it hurts their pride that they got caught in the act.
Btw your arguments are particularly disturbing. So what, the west can freely use their arms since they make em?? [Edited out]
Why do you think they’re in the arms business? To sell to conflicts like in Sri Lanka. It’s good business. All these HR champions are also the biggest weapons manufacturers! Norway, UK, Sweden, US. Don’t you see the irony here? Can’t you put 2 and 2 together? They say one thing at the UN to sustain the conflict and then their private backers (the weapons lobbyist) make good business out of it. Some people are just so naive. Well I don’t blame ya, you got to be able to sleep at night somehow. I just accept the world as it is and come to peace with it. It aint a fair place. Stop crying about it and you’ll get further.
“There are about 32,000 doctors working / worked in SL. 25,000 are currently working. 5,000 are dead or retired. only 2,000 have left the country. That is about 6%. 94% are still living in this country.”
Your statistics are very strange. Usually one does not run into data that includes the dead. Can you cite your source?
As long as tamils work towards creating a second tamil country in our sinhala country….more tamils in sri lanka are going to suffer and die….if tamils in Sri Lanka cannot settle down like the Muslim, Malay and burger minorities with equal rights and live peacefully with the majority they should go back to the land of tamil nadu
Observer:
You mean everyone kidnapped by the “white van gang” are terrorists? I am not surprised this kind of phobia prevails from the ordinary man to the top in the ruling regime.
The rule of law is very well established in those countries you mentioned. When one innocent guy was shot dead by the British police and was passed of as a terrorist, the Police Independent Commission ruled otherwise – that the British police gunned down an innocent person. In SL, from the so-called independent inquiries to the courts, they are nothing more than lackeys to the ruling elite. May be you can throw some light on Lasantha Wickremetunge and let me tell you a secret (and please don’t tell anyone) – he is a Sinhalese. This murderous regime had to eliminate him for raising issues against this govt.
There are very good people across the divide. As much as there are/were tyrants among the Tamils, so are/were there among the Sinhalese.
Jansee
You responded to my post of September 25, 2009 @ 12:22 pm with the question
Quote
“When you mean “moderate intelligentsia”, how would you rate the resent ruling regime?”
Unquote
Obviously you read my post as your question is based on the last sentence
As your subsequent responses show, you expected to “Stump” me with a frivolous question (trolling). I don’t intend repeating my answers posted on September 26, 2009 @ 2:33 am but instead refer you to them
My post was about the IDP’s and how they are used to wage a war on the PSEUDO HR front, it was a reply to the author of the article, but your question was about the SL Govt (which had nothing to do with my post as SL Govt did not figure in it at all). You ignored everything else written about the IDP’s, WHY? For that matter everyone else writing about the HR situation of the IDP’s have.
As I pointed out, your careless remark about money, bombs and the West, exposed your mindset to the readers of this column very clearly indeed
Now let’s get back to my post that you questioned. You ignored completely the following questions
Who are these IDPs?
Where were they before they ended up in camps?
What HR rights did they enjoy before?
Are they better off in comparison to what they suffered BEFORE they arrived in camps (if there was any suffering at all)?
Is there a threat to the safety of the 20,000,000 people inhabiting SL from any, within the confines of these camps?
How can such a threat be nullified if such a threat exists?
How many people stood up for the suffering that these Tamil people underwent BEFORE they became classified as IDPs?
Let’s see how you answer EACH of them (please don’t leave out any)
We know that you want everyone to believe that the LTTE is no more. Do you take everyone to be naive to believe the canard that you are trying so hard to establish? Did you forget KP’s words after the war ended? Let me remind you, he said that there are several thousand TRAINED cadres who can restart the war at his command.
The LTTE apologists and those who steer the PROPAGANDA WAR for the LTTE express a PSEUDO CONCERN for the IDP’s. They are using the IDP’s in the same way the thug Prabhakaran and his murderous gang used them in the past
With so much overwhelming concern for the IDP’s welling out of your bosom, I wonder whether you posted against the LTTE’s use of these same civilians with the same frequency and force that you are doing so now. If you have done so please provide the readers with the thread, date and time of such postings so that they can understand you better
If you have actually criticized the thug and murderer Prabhakaran in support of your Tamil brethren when he was shooting and cutting their legs off as Ms Anna Marie Loos of Medicine Sans Frontiers testifies to, with the same ZEAL that you display now, you will earn the respect of the readers (myself included).
On the other hand, if you fail to establish your “Bona Fide”, vis-Ã -vis your currently expressed concern about IDP’s, you would be guilty of showing a PSEUDO concern.
You know what such a person is called in any Language don’t you?
“Those who published the video claim it is genuine and authentic and that is the reason why they are chiding SL.”
If the video was really fake, the SL Government would allow an independent investigation (by the UN, Scotland Yard, etc.). If the video was genuinely fake, Channel 4 news would be hit REALLY hard… they would think twice before taking on Sri Lanka again. Elsewhere I mentioned that foreign experts are called in all the time to do autopsies and post-mortems, e.g. Trinco five, 13 NGO workers, Premadasa investigation. Let’s face it: an independent investigation would mean a search for witnesses…not only would the authenticity of this video possibly be established, even more dirt would come out from under the rug. There is a much worse video than this, which no doubt many here have seen: it is of some Sri Lankan Army soldiers abusing the dead naked bodies of some female LTTE soldiers. We know what happened in Haiti.. we saw how bodies of LTTE cadres in a state of indecent undress were piled in a truck and paraded around the town after the Anuradhapura attack.. now there are two videos… maybe one 1 incident is a coincidence, but four? There is a lot being hidden here and GOSL is desperate to cover it up.
If an independent investigation disproved the authenticity of the tape, not only would Channel 4 lose all credibility, tamilnet would also look bad. It would be an excellent propaganda victory for GOSL, which is planning elections in the not too distant future. The locals would buy up the whole foreign conspiracy theory in a heartbeat.
As for WHY such an investigation is not being allowed, the point is that it all indicates CULPABILITY on the part of GOSL.
Dear Dr. P. Saravanamuttu
The Headline you chose for your article is provocative. A war is waged between two or more opponents. The SL Govt has been identified as one but you stop short of naming the rest.
As you stated ‘The war ended. The LTTE was defeated.” Absolutely true, but aren’t you forgetting a VITALLY important dimension that needs to be considered?
Is the LTTE TOTALLY eliminated? If it has been, then there is no security risk of bombs starting to go off again in public transport and other public places and the Govt is acting with unjustified Paranoia.
If not, then the danger posed cannot be wished away and the Govt is justified in being cautious, not withstanding ALL the pressures that you mention. KP did say he has several thousand TRAINED cadres that can restart the war at his command. Can it be ignored?
I posted earlier on this thread on September 25, 2009 @ 12:22 pm voicing certain concerns.
Below is an extract from that post
The war by the LTTE was fought on several fronts besides the military front. The military operations came to a stop when the guns were silenced and top leaders were killed.
The war propaganda which used HR issues in its many forms to attack SL, continues unabated. Rather, it has increased in intensity, after the demise of the MILITARY leaders caught up in the final offensive on the LTTE. This is not surprising, as those who led the offensive for the LTTE on the HR front and fund collection, escaped any harm and continue to be highly active today.
Currently the main focus is on the IDPs.
Who are these IDPs?
Where were they before they ended up in camps?
What HR rights did they enjoy before?
Are they better off in comparison to what they suffered BEFORE they arrived in camps (if there was any suffering at all)?
Is there a threat to the safety of the 20,000,000 people inhabiting SL from any, within the confines of these camps?
How can such a threat be nullified if such a threat exists?
How many people stood up for the suffering that these Tamil people underwent BEFORE they became classified as IDPs?
End of Extract
I believe these questions will elicit answers that will indicate the Dilemma the Govt is faced with.
The IDPs consist of TWO groups
1. The genuine civilians who pose no threat to anyone and should be released
2. The LTTE cadres who have shed military fatigues and firearms and are posing as civilians. This group is a high security risk and poses a life threatening danger to the 20,000,000 million inhabitants of SL and hence SHOULD NOT be released until they have been rehabilitated and cease to be a threat to the general population of 20 million
I have not read any informed article on how to neutralize this threat anywhere? Would anyone be able to provide a link to such a document?
This is what a Tamil directly involved with the IDP’s have to say
Extract
It may be that our people have to be temporarily housed in IDP camps until the areas where they are from are de-mined & cleared of weapons …. used by the LTTE. Civilians in these camps also need to be screened & their identities verified & cross-checked for national security purposes. This is the duty of any responsible Government in power as there are many ex-LTTE Intel agents … including former cadres who need to be rehabilitated before being re-introduced back in to ordinary civilian life. These camps constructed by the SL Govt are a far cry from Concentration Camps as they are being labeled by … LTTE supporters in the West …
I personally visited these camps in April between 9th and 19th & our members on ground in Vavuniya visit the camps regularly to gather feedback from civilians. Yes, there have been issues with food not being delivered on time etc, but our people are not starving or being mistreated. They are receiving 3 meals per day & are being housed in adequate & safe conditions with full medical facilities being provided. There are 52 NGO’s including the ICRC & the UN working on ground….
Nesan Shankar Raji
Senior Leader & spokesperson
Eelam Revolutionary Organisation (EROS)
Eelavar Democratic Front (EDF)
End of Extract
I was surprised to note your reference to the obviously unsubstantiated Channel 4 video. The Govt has challenged its authenticity providing technical reasons. Channel 4 is yet to respond with a rebuttal. Hence slipping in a reference to such a questionable video can be interpreted as an attempt to give credence to it. It puts into question your impartiality.
This is not the first time questionable material was published in the so called “Free Media”. This writer wrote to London Times, indicating glaring discrepancies in their story that proves it to be a fabrication. That challenge was never published by them. How could they?
Right of Reply denied. Free Media?
After being flown over the NFZ along with Ban Ki Moon by the SL Govt itself, they published a cooked up story shamelessly advertising it as an investigative scoop.
In that story their so called Independent Defense Experts stated that bombardment with Air Burst and Ground impact mortars cause “INTENSE HEAT” that can burn down trees to “STUMPS” and cause destruction over a wide area
The pictures they carried had “UNBURNT” tents and undamaged vegetation. The purported “INTENSE” heat could not even burn plastic or cloth, let alone live trees. The burnt tree stumps were no where to be seen.
They used a picture of a LTTE graveyard to reinforce their argument. That picture had ABSOLUTELY no signs of ANY bombardment. ALL vegetation was intact. There wasn’t a SINGLE bomb crater. The picture was obviously of a LTTE grave yard no where near the war zone. It was very cunningly introduced in the commentary to mislead the viewer.
This shamelessly cooked up story appeared as a documentary video with a running commentary, in addition to what they published. Just read and watch it yourself, then make your own independent assessment.
The point I am trying to make is that people of your standing should not give credence to questionable material just because a Western media outlet disseminates them.
Use of innuendo will not heal wounds and would only drive the wedge deeper into the divide.
Off the Cuff:
“As I pointed out, your careless remark about money, bombs and the West, exposed your mindset to the readers of this column very clearly indeed”
This was in reply to “observer’s” observation of countries using their money to make bombs. What to do, when you read with a pre-determined mind, anything and anyone would have to subscribe to what you believe and am I surprised here?
“Who are these IDPs?
Where were they before they ended up in camps?
What HR rights did they enjoy before?”
If they were under the rule of butchers before, now they are under the rule of murderous butchers. May be both the parties are trying to prove who is the better. Before they ended in these camps, some of them were forcibly recruited to serve the masters of the LTTE but most of them were still tilling and toiling in their homeland. Today, they have been uprooted from their lands, locked-up in internment camps and made to que long hours for their necessities. Pray, tell me any better than what they were going through. Until the indiscriminate shelling and displacement, their life was never this bad. Give them back their lives. Instead of that, pointing fingers at those bringing up these issues as LTTE supporters is not going to help. It may have worked during the war but it is an out-dated slogan now. If there is any intention of getting out of the boxed corner, then get things moving in a sincere and genuine way to resolve the issues. Outlandish and arrogant postures would not work the way it did once and time is not on the side of the SL regime. And by saying all these, you still continue to brandish us as LTTEs then go on until this world comes to an end but the problem is not going to go away. Anyway, guys like me were never on the side of the LTTEs, neither were we on the side of the SL regime. We consider both as recalcitrant butchers.
You must be joking when you talk of the HR of people. You have a regime where even Sinhalese have branded as ruthless. Where were you when Tamils were rounded-up like herds and deported from Colombo? The HR of Tamils under the LTTE are far from acceptable. It is common knowledge that they just dragged people from their homes to fight for them but certainly they did not lock up like herds 300,000 people into internment camps and treat them like war prisoners. You figure out yourself what HR you are so proud of this regime.
“Is there a threat to the safety of the 20,000,000 people inhabiting SL from any, within the confines of these camps?
How can such a threat be nullified if such a threat exists?
How many people stood up for the suffering that these Tamil people underwent BEFORE they became classified as IDPs?”
I just can’t believe what I read? What kind of a sick logic would it be to claim whether there is a threat to the IDPs in the camps? Is that what is this all about? Whatever happened to their freedom and rights as citizens? Just lock them up in prisons and tell the whole world that we are taking of them by giving them three meals? Even the three meals do not come easily as the UN, India and other countries are footing the bill. My friend, stop the charade of being a fair humanist. You are not.
There have been a lot of accusations against the brutal conduct of both the LTTE and the SL regime. This was a “war without witnesses” and get the SL regime to conduct an independent investigation alleged to have been conducted by both parties. From the depressive attitude of the SL regime, it appears it has a lot to hide. Perhaps, then we can have a meaningful comparison of who is the worst, LTTE or the SL regime.
@ Heshan
Doctors get a registration number after internship. The latest batch got numbers around 28,000-29,000. That is the number of doctors who have been registred since SLMC was established in 1920s. And there are 950 doing the internship currently and about 1700 awaiting (2 batches) for the internship. You can add up the numbers.
Source is GMOA publications, and they have a member ship of around 20,000. They estimate 5,000 not taken membership, and the number of members that have migrated after qualifying for SLMC registration. It’s rare for people to lave for foreign countries without completing the internship as they’ll be not qualified to practice in those countries. GMOA has no online publications to be cited.
Only the LTTE and UNP could benefit from Lasantha’s murder. I will just leave it that. Black Panthers never had him in their cross hairs. May common sense prevail.
As for the channel 4 video it has been technically disproven that it does not originate from a 3g mobile phone. What more? Why should we let people investigate a sovereign country every time they accuse of BS?
If i make a fake video of NATO soldiers killing afghans, would they just let a whole bunch of foreigners investigate it when it’s blatantly obvious it is dodgy at best?? Get real…
Jansee
Good try but not good enough.
The ONLY comment from “Observer” preceding your “bombs and money” comment on this thread was made on September 24, 2009 @ 5:54 pm
The Only reference to “Bombs” in that post is in this paragraph
Quote
Then Miliband come over to inquire our war, wearing pants as well. How can we take him seriously? lol At the same time they rip off tax payers to have a good time.
What can u do they have nukes to muscle countries around. Only thing they don;t have is shame..
Unquote
This is your response on September 25, 2009 @ 7:41 pm
Ok, the western world create whatever bombs, but they do with their own money.
Unquote
Can you explain the relevance of your outburst to the subject matter?
This is what is termed Trolling and Flaming in Internet language. The majority of your comments are the same. They are intended to divert attention from the core issues discussed.
Unfortunately for you, this time around your careless and unthinking comment exposed your mindset. It carries with it, the IMPLIED meaning of condoning what the West does because they do so with their “Own Money”
You are wrong here too. The West that you look up to PLUNDERED the week to amass their wealth. Murders, rape, burning at the stake, lynching and torture on the Rack among other things were the tools used for the plunder.
Do you believe the Crown Jewels were mined in England or acquired by paying for them? This is just a drop in the ocean of systematic plunder practiced by those you worship.
Then you come at me with your flaming and trolling by picking on the LAST sentence of my post on September 25, 2009 @ 12:22 pm
This is what you said
When you mean “moderate intelligentsia”, how would you rate the resent ruling regime?
Unquote
There was not a word written by me about the ruling Govt but you tried unsuccessfully to divert attention from the IDP issue to something else.
If you wanted to know the meanings of those two words you needed only to refer to a dictionary, but that would not suit your purpose right? So you thought you will be smart and ask a question designed to “Flame” me and divert my attention from the IDPs.
I did answer your question though, by stating that the current regime is 27 years too late. If the then leadership acted with a singular purpose of eradicating terrorism of all hues from SL soil 27 years ago we would not be having this discussion today. Probably the IGP who Headed the Police Force of SL at that time Mr. Rudra Rajasingham (an ethnic Tamil) soft peddled the handling of the emerging lawlessness.
In another Trolling attempt (your post of September 26, 2009 @ 1:01 pm) you direct the following question at me
The equitable solution that you are talking about – does the herding of the IDPs in internment camps also one?
Unquote
Let me answer it now
Herding describes what the LTTE did to these people when they “moved” them like Cattle (herded) to keep them within the Human shield.
Equitable means that everyone gets an EQUAL and JUST share
This is what I believe would be Equitable in terms of Land
Everyone will have the Right to live anywhere they want within SL’s boundary
Everyone will have the Right to purchase LAND anywhere within SL’s boundaries
Everyone will have the Right to use Land within SL’s boundaries for any legal purpose
Repeal of discriminatory Laws such as the Thesawalami or similar
You may not like it, as it entails the dropping of “Homeland” demands.
The demand for 60% of coast line (including marine resources) and 33% land mass for the exclusive use of a Tamil population that probably would be less than even the Muslim population of SL today.
Now that your Flaming and Trolling attempts have been dealt with, lets get back to the CORE issue raised by the author Dr. Saravanamuttu.
I note that you have failed to indicate instances where you rose to these civilian’s defense when they were being ‘BRUTALIZED’ by the LTTE. Is it because you never did and your currently professed concern is Pseudo?
You say
If they were under the rule of butchers before,
Unquote
Why the “IF”? Are you not sure that the LTTE were indeed BUTCHERS?
You state
I just can’t believe what I read? What kind of a sick logic would it be to claim whether there is a threat to the IDPs in the camps?
Unquote
There is no threat ‘TO’ the IDP’s …you need to comprehend what’s written before you decide to comment….the threat comes ‘FROM’ the LTTE cadres hiding amongst the genuine civilians.
It is not just a threat it’s a LIFE THREATENING threat as these Cadres are trained to kill indiscriminately using suicide attacks, roadside bombs, bus bombs and train bombs.
They are hiding and waiting for you to get them out with your HR propaganda. You did bribe a US Congressman and what you thought were US State Dept officials (FBI).
With your outlook of “Money means Power” and the Billions of USD stashed away from the $300 million annual income, I doubt you will have any difficulty in infiltrating media institutions to put out more trash like that “Investigative Exclusive” the London Times carried not so long ago and Channel 4
Remember that story where “INTENSE HEAT” capable of “BURNING LIVE TREES TO STUMPS” was generated by Air burst and Ground burst mortar attacks allegedly carried out by the SLA. The heat produced could not even burn cloth and plastic tents, let alone Live Trees, as pictures published in that story by the Times proves.
Any person who does not acknowledge the existence of LTTE sleepers (10,000+ have already been caught) within the Camps IS using the IDPs as a TOOL to get the sleepers out.
Such people are expressing PSEUDO concern for the IDP’s and DEFINITELY belong to the LTTE propaganda Machine.
Off the Cuff:
This belongs to the same kind of propaganda the SLG is using to perpetuate its lies – no loss of blood and lives during the last encounter and definitely you do not have to hide behind the cover of a SLA or regime’s lackey. Am I surprised?
“Then Miliband come over to inquire our war, wearing pants as well. How can we take him seriously? lol At the same time they rip off tax payers to have a good time.
What can u do they have nukes to muscle countries around. Only thing they don;t have is shame.”
Of course , you have a lot of dignity – going begging to the west and UN for money to keep the IDPs in internment camps. Going begging to EU for the GSP+. Come on bro, you people are the hoodlums but hypocrites who would go on your knees to get a few pennies but talk endlessly about pride and ego. Do you still have that?
IMPLIED – on what? I am implying that you are nothing more than a JHU or one of the decoys from the ruling regime. Well, I can imply thousand and one things – that passport serves me as well but please get your feet on the ground and talk about mundane issues, that of the IDPs whom this govt bluffed by telling them to come over to their side called “paradise”.
“You are wrong here too. The West that you look up to PLUNDERED the week to amass their wealth. Murders, rape, burning at the stake, lynching and torture on the Rack among other things were the tools used for the plunder.”
You must have been trained well to throw stones from a glass house. Have you forgotten how the SL soldiers were reprimanded for their “extra-mural activities” in Haiti. Just cheap political talk, mind you, you will do well in politics.
“I did answer your question though, by stating that the current regime is 27 years too late. If the then leadership acted with a singular purpose of eradicating terrorism of all hues from SL soil 27 years ago we would not be having this discussion today. Probably the IGP who Headed the Police Force of SL at that time Mr. Rudra Rajasingham (an ethnic Tamil) soft peddled the handling of the emerging lawlessness.”
Of course, the present police force is very efficient indeed, still solving the Rupavahini attack and the murder of Lasantha. Anyway, it is not my interest whether it was Tamil who was the IGP once. It was/is during the recalcitrant regime you belong to that so many reporters died and some had to seek elsewhere. I know you want to be stand in the elections and win, but you may be lucky for one term. I wish you well.
“If they were under the rule of butchers before”. Now it looks like I have to give you lessons in English also. Please ask anyone of your political friends to help you understand this.
There is no threat ‘TO’ the IDP’s …you need to comprehend what’s written before you decide to comment….the threat comes ‘FROM’ the LTTE cadres hiding amongst the genuine civilians.
It is not just a threat it’s a LIFE THREATENING threat as these Cadres are trained to kill indiscriminately using suicide attacks, roadside bombs, bus bombs and train bombs.
‘They are hiding and waiting for you to get them out with your HR propaganda. You did bribe a US Congressman and what you thought were US State Dept officials (FBI). ”
I wish I could be that lucky to get even near to the FBI. Anyway, thank you at least for such a thought but the FBI are not bothered about small guys like me. Anyway thanks for the thought.
This is a war without witnesses and this was hidden from the whole world because the SL regime ruthlessly murdered about 20,000 civilians. Yes, the LTTE had their share but how are we know when the SL regime is preventing an independent investigation.
It is almost 4 moths now and you are still screening for the hardcore LTTEs and for that more than 200,000 had to be locked-up away. Whom are you trying to bluff? BTW, I thought this regime boasted that it had defeated terrorism COMPLETELY. Whatever happened to that boast? The UN better watch out – it has been quite vocal of late to get that whatever promises made by MR on the settlement of the IDPs are not being kept. Is the UN, too, on your HR chiding list? What do you call people who suck people’s money for causing their own calculated upheavals and disasters – leeches?
“Remember that story where “INTENSE HEAT” capable of “BURNING LIVE TREES TO STUMPS” was generated by Air burst and Ground burst mortar attacks allegedly carried out by the SLA. The heat produced could not even burn cloth and plastic tents, let alone Live Trees, as pictures published in that story by the Times proves.”
This is what you are saying. Let an independent investigation be carried out and then let us discuss what or who is right and wrong. The adamant attitude in refusing to allow this profoundly means that the SL regime has a lot to hide. SL is well known for this. Tell me something new mite. BTW, during the last month of the war, the gross miscalculation of numbers of civilians in the war zone by this regime was proven to be a lie, what more when the regime insisted that it has reliable information on the numbers, and even when Anandasangaree, was able to dispute these figures. There is a rubber stamp that this regime lies through its teeth and you don’t have to preach us and the world about being so sacrosanct.
I will be waiting for your response but there will be no let-up on disproving your lies.
Jansee
When you can’t meet an argument with facts use innuendo …just proves your bankruptcy nothing else.
Lets look at your exchange with “Observer” and me
Observer on Sept 24 @ 5:54 pm –
Then Miliband come over to inquire our war, wearing pants as well. How can we take him seriously? lol At the same time they rip off tax payers to have a good time.
What can u do they have nukes to muscle countries around. Only thing they don;t have is shame..
You on Sept 25 @ 7:41 pm
Ok, the western world create whatever bombs, but they do with their own money.
I on Sept 26 @ 2:33 am
So “MONEY” is God in your part of the world is it? If you are RICH you are allowed to violate all human norms, is that your “LOGIC”?
Observer on Sept 26 @ 2:42 pm
Btw your arguments are particularly disturbing. So what, the west can freely use their arms since they make em?? [Edited out]
September 27 @ 5:28 am
This was in reply to “observer’s” observation of countries using their money to make bombs.
—————————–
I looked and looked but could not find ANYTHING in the above exchange that substantiate what you say on Sept 27 at 5:28 am. On the contrary this observation about “countries, money and bombs” was made by you on 25 Sept
These exchanges are on the web for every one to see. What were you thinking when you FABRICATED your excuse for your shameful “Money and Bombs” comment?
You are a person that attempts to change a publicly viewable recorded exchange within a space of TWO days. You have proved your self to be a compulsive Liar to say the least.
To add insult to injury your latest post today @ 8:50 pm attempts to attribute to me what “Observer” said at the outset. Talk about deceit !!
Like your morals your posts seem to be revolving around money
You will even deny History and attempt to change it, expecting to Win. What can one expect when you even change history just TWO days old?
Btw, in English ‘you’ is both singular and plural
Now about the Times of London story….
Remember that story where “INTENSE HEAT” capable of “BURNING LIVE TREES TO STUMPS” was generated by Air burst and Ground burst mortar attacks allegedly carried out by the SLA. The heat produced could not even burn cloth and plastic tents, let alone Live Trees, as pictures published in that story by the Times proves
The above is my ANALYSIS it’s neither my words nor my pictures.
This is what they wrote
Air-burst and ground-impact mortars can cause wide destruction and reduce trees to burnt stumps — one of the sights seen frequently in The Times photographs.
This is the voice of their Foreign Editor explaining the pictures
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/asia/article6383477.ece
Let alone Burnt trees you can’t even find a Burnt tent
It is a PRIME example of an LTTE sponsored shameless FABRICATION
In spite of your pretentious comment “Disproving” takes more than just innuendo and denial or altering history.
Going by the way you fabricate statements as you go along you don’t have what it takes
What, no comment on the Equitable issue?
CORRECTION
September 27 @ 5:28 am
This was in reply to “observer’s” observation of countries using their money to make bombs.
the above comment quoted in my previous post was made by Jansee on September 27 @ 5:28 am
The omission is regreted
@Migara:
The number of doctors since 1920 is a moot point. I am more interested in the per annum figure for 2007/2008/2009. I doubt there are 32,000 doctors in the whole country (excluding Ayurvedic physicians, who don’t count). I would be surprised if there are even 2000 hospitals in the entire country. A doctor can only be trained at a medical school… there are only 2 or three medical schools in the entire country. Therefore it is difficult to believe that 2 or 3 medical schools in the whole country are training 32000 doctors, annually, to work at a maximum of 2000 hospitals. Do me a favor and revise your figure; then we can discuss.
Off The Cuff:
The countries, monies and bombs” was stated explicitly by a remark explicitly and it was to that my response to same. Either you want to evade it or just pretend it is not there. Of course, Observer mentioned it but you took it up in your post, didn’t you?
Moral – guys like you must even think twice before talking about it. Your life threatening assertions has been shred to pieces – now reports have emerged (Sunday Times) that money is being demanded for IDPs to be released and the soldiers are in the thick and thin of it. One comment suggested that since a one year child cannot pay such money, then it has to be helplessly and hopelessly consigned to the camps. Morals it seems. That is the last thing ever present.
We were talking about “IF” and suddenly you are talking about “YOU”. Which is whihc ?Of course, you connotes both singular and plural and is ALWAYS used with the plural verbs.
Again you are evading the issue (which you guys are so good at), where is the independent investigation? Just clap with one hand and say what everyone says is wrong except you guys. I can see your frustration and who are you to say whether I have what it takes. Can’t I point the same finger at you? If it is your intention, as is the intention of the SL regime, to blame all those who raise legitimate issues as LTTE supporters, then go on with your whimsical charade. As you can see now, the international pressure is so much that this regime has started to move and hopefully resolve the outstanding issues, sooner than later. It is not by the types of posturing that you so display that this is going to go away. There is not going to be a let up on this just because you conveniently label us LTTEs. As I have explained earlier stop wasting your breath on that as the mounting pressure is on the welfare of IDPs. Of course, if this matter gets prolonged, then other issues would emerge which the SL regime is hardly equipped to handle. The war is over. I didn’t say it, the President said it and he even went as far as to say that terrorism is over. We welcome that but now don’t go on pretending that the war is still on and lock people up in internment camps. If as you claim it is for their safety, why can’t the free movement of the IDPs in and out of the camps be allowed? How low will you guys stoop to hide one lie with another.
I would have assumed that by not commenting on the “EQUITY” issue, you would have understood that I agree and whole-heartedly accept it. It will be a step in the right direction and the Tamils cannot say one thing by wanting a homeland when the Sinhalese have allowed them to be part of them in the South. Even beyond this, I would also categorically add that the Tamils failure to reach the South cannot and should never be an excuse. There would be bad apples in any community but by and large the Sinhalese people are wonderful people and Tamils have to accept the fact that as much as a Tamil has been given a right to live in the south, so should the other races be given free access to live in the north. I would be even more pleased if the Tamil polity (if they would ever take note) would invite the Sinhalese and Muslim brothers to take up residence and livelihood in the North. They have to prove that they do not represent the LTTE, in deeds and in spirit.
Off the Cuff, there are few here who are trained masters in propaganda. Their objectives are repetition, distraction and flaming. I won’t name names.
Long as you stick to the point, intelligent readers will decide who’s on track and who are trolls. There’s not much you can do other than that to deal with trolls.
When ever there’s a point that embarrasses them they will steer off topic completely. I see that sort of behavior whenever I point out their “master’s” hypocrisies.
Visu:
When the truth bites, some hide behind deceitful mantras, hoping that lies said once too often becomes truth and when the general opinion turns against them they start hoodwinking practices – such as get eminent persons to sit on a so-called independent body and then when the heat is off, just make it impossible for them to do their work. These are the people who talk about credibility and propaganda. Of course, even Pascoe of the UN had mentioned how the SL regime had twisted what he had really said and meant. That the pressure to deal fairly with the IDPs is really hitting these guys hard and hence the frustration.
re: off the cuff’s questions
Interesting questions from off the cuff. It’s better to try to use a rational framework than to rave that “we can do what we like”, as some here do.
>> Who are these IDPs?
Tamils, I guess. Almost all Sri Lankan – a few foreign/dual passport holders. A range of people, ranging from LTTE Cadres, to unwilling conscripts and child soldiers, to those not involved with the LTTE (mostly the latter, by all accounts). Some of them might even have been considered LTTE victims, before they came to the camps. Now it’s less clear whose victims they are.
>> Where were they before they ended up in camps?
>> What HR rights did they enjoy before?
I think we all know that they were under LTTE rule, which seems not to have included the right to criticise the LTTE (though some here seem to want to ban “pro tamil propaganda” and others have pointed out that killing editors and jailing journalists for 20 years might have a chilling effect).
It appears that if you kept your head down and avoided attention from the security apparatus, some aspects of life worked better, and some worse than in the other part of the island.
But the LTTE record on human rights in general – especially but not only in the “human shield” phase of the war – was dreadful.
>> Are they better off in comparison to what they suffered
>> BEFORE they arrived in camps (if there was any suffering at all)?
That question presupposes it’s moral or right to abuse people, so long as you abuse them a little less than their previous abuser. It’s a bit like defending slavery by saying “our slaves are better fed, and we only flog them a little”. I’m not saying the prisoners are slaves – but I am saying you CANNOT justify yourself by saying someone else is worse.
It’s reasonable to guess that the prisoners (at least not those being interrogated about possible LTTE links) are better off than while they were refugees, or human shields being shot at by the LTTE or Army, and worse off than they would have been at home before the push, or at home if released from the camps. The loss of liberty is a big deal, you know. As for those being interrogated – guilty or innocent, they are almost certainly worse off.
Of course this is only a guess, because access to the camps is so limited. But if conditions are better than people think, why not prove it by letting the media in to all the camps? If they are worse, I can see why you wouldn’t.
>> Is there a threat to the safety of the 20,000,000 people inhabiting SL from any, within the confines of these camps?
Yes. And, as alienation of the prisoners increases, the divisions that led to the threat are also increasing.
It’s worth pointing out that the 20 million outside are also under threat from the usual range of murderers, rapists, and child abusers, as well as a number of lawless thugs on the government side (in the security services or just white vans). Those people are not preventatively detained, and you can argue that the rule of law should apply to the quarter of a million refugee-prisoners as well.
>> How can such a threat be nullified if such a threat exists?
You cannot nullify it completely.
You can prevent it from growing by treating the prisoners properly, and demonstrating publicly that you are. That would include not hiding conditions in the camps, and allowing those detailed free communication and a free press. You know – ordinary Sri Lankan constitutional rights.
If they MUST be deprived of liberty (and that has NOT been proved) why should they not have their other rights as citizens?
If you insist one imprisoning the innocent while you search for the guilty, the following should be arranged:
– publish the names of all those detained, and whether they have been vetted
– publish details of those vetted and those released
– publish the details of those who have been found to have LTTE connections, the nature of the connection, and where they are being held pending trial. They weren’t planning on executing them out of hand, were they?
– publish the criteria of “LTTE connections” you are looking for – at least in outline (members, fighters, families of members, activists, what? if you don’t know what you’re looking for, how will you know when you find it? If you do, what’s the secret, in a democracy?)
– allow free communications in and out of the camps
– publish a detailed timetable for vetting and mine clearance
– allow red cross, relief workers, and the international media access to all the camps
– publish rates of compensation for those being held without charge (would that give the government a financial incentive to declare people guilty?)
>> How many people stood up for the suffering that these Tamil people underwent BEFORE they became classified as IDPs?
A number of people, inside Sri Lanka and outside. Parts of the Tamil diaspora were shamefully silent on abuses of the LTTE – maybe their minds were occupied too much by the reasons they had to flee the country, and the grievances of the LTTE (often the very same reasons). You see the same human unwillingness to criticise ones own side in some of the government apologists right here.
So there it is.
As answer.
Now a question for off the cuff……..
What steps would YOU suggest, to demonstrate that the government is serious about treating detainees well, and releasing them as quickly as possible?
Off the cuff >>
I think “Undergroundview” raises some valid points and it would be good to discuss them.
Undergroundview >>
I agree with most of your post, especially the part which says: “If you insist on imprisoning the innocent while you search for the guilty, the following should be arranged:” I believe this should happen also, and it’s a failure on the part of the govt. not to do so.
I differ in my opinion on the following point:
“It’s worth pointing out that the 20 million outside are also under threat from the usual range of murderers, rapists, and child abusers, as well as a number of lawless thugs on the government side (in the security services or just white vans). Those people are not preventatively detained, and you can argue that the rule of law should apply to the quarter of a million refugee-prisoners as well.”
Quite a few people raise this point. But there’s a fundamental difference between the localized threat of murderers, rapists etc. from the much more far-reaching threat of suicide bombers and rebel militia. A murderer is not going to destabilize the entire country. Bombs going off will. I think that fact mostly invalidates the comparison.
I am tempted instead to compare the situation to something like a quarantine on infectious disease. Would it be immoral to detain a large number of people if they had an infectious disease which could affect the entire population? Would it not be better to isolate and treat the problem, so that the people being quarantined as well as the rest of the population have an actual future to look forward to? This is why I feel it’s not entirely unjustified to question what freedoms the IDPs enjoyed before and why the stipulated 6 month period of incarceration is unbearable till the problem is sorted out.
The disadvantages of being overly idealistic and simply taking a risk by ignoring the cadres mingling with civilians are many. Firstly, there are the obvious economic repercussions and I think we can all be sure the govt. brought the economy to a pretty precarious state in order to win this war. It would indeed by a pyhrric victory if a war fought at such great sacrifice against all the forces arrayed against our little country was won in the short-term but the advantages could not be sustained in the long term due to financial inability. There are also severe social repurcussions. The interned people themselves will once again be the targets of military action. On a larger scale, Islandwide, Tamils themselves will never be free of suspicion, which results in a renewed cycle of perceived discrimination.
I believe an excellent article written by Michael Roberts a while back further highlights the dilemmas in this situation: http://www.groundviews.org/2009/02/10/dilemmas-at-wars-end-thoughts-on-hard-realities/. As he points out, the very category of ‘civilian’ is highly ambiguous in a situation like this.
Therefore, temporary incarceration, while unquestionably an evil in the short term, could provide greater benefits in the long term and therefore be the more rational approach. Most definitely, the one thing these interned civilians do have now is the hope for a real future, rather than having their entire existence geared to achieve the dreams of some crazed despot while simultaenously being shelled and bombed out of existence by the govt. A temporary loss of liberty appears to me a small price to pay.
Further, recall that similar moves were made during the JVP riots in order to contain the situation, therefore, it is not without precedent. What’s alarming this time round is the sheer scale of the operation.
Therefore, I can see why the govt. considers it pragmatic to follow this path, as unsavoury as it may be from a moral and idealistic perspective. But, as you rightly pointed out, if they do choose this path, proper procedure ought to be followed. This, unfortunately, is where there are some glaring faults, not necessarily in the decision to detain people.
I see where you’re coming from, Somewhat Disgusted. And these are difficult questions, with no completely right answers.
Unfortunately, by failing to “follow the proper procedures” the government does two things.
It loses any moral justification it may have had for the mass detentions as “a necessary and proportionate evil”, even taking the government case at its height. It’s so much more inhumane than it could and ought to be, that you really cannot claim it is proportionate.
And it sends a clear message to the Tamil community – indeed, any minority – that their rights and concerns are disposable (whether you see this as a deliberate or accidental message will depend on how much trust you had in the government in the first place).
Whatever the motivation, this detention and the message it sends will have a deeply corrosive effect on society if the government does not act quickly and decisively – if it’s not already too late, and assuming the government actually cares what Sri Lanka’s minorities or the outside world think.
SomewhatDisgusted:
“I am tempted instead to compare the situation to something like a quarantine on infectious disease. Would it be immoral to detain a large number of people if they had an infectious disease which could affect the entire population? Would it not be better to isolate and treat the problem, so that the people being quarantined as well as the rest of the population have an actual future to look forward to? This is why I feel it’s not entirely unjustified to question what freedoms the IDPs enjoyed before and why the stipulated 6 month period of incarceration is unbearable till the problem is sorted out.”
The govt has cited two reasons for holding the IDPS in these internment camps: to facilitate the demining process and to weed out possible LTTE cadres/ex-combatants. My question is this. If in actuality the demining is such an issue why not allow the IDPs to live with their relatives or those who are willing to care for them? On the LTTE issue, now is the fifth month since the war was over, and surely some form of screening should have been completed, at least with sections of the IDPs. Why not release those who have been cleared? Why this insidious and deceitful programme by the SL regime and what more with lackeys like you who support it. Based on the arguments, there cannot be even a tinge of truth that come from the SL regime? When has it spoken the truth anyway?
Now the SL regime is talking about issuing day passes. Ironical isn’t it? If the SL regime considers issuing the passes, doesn’t that mean the IDPs are not considered as threats anymore? Then why still keep them in these internment camps? I think many know the illegal and deceit intent of the SL regime, but how long do you think it can hide from the truth?
May be I have a better suggestion, with the best interest for the security of the entire population of the south. Why not create a huge camp and house them all in this camp. May be the leadership could be given some zinc roofed camps for their sacrifices and by doing this, rest assured, the security threat would dissipate almost immediately. You can take this idea to your govt and you can be the next Minister for the south IDPs.
May be
Undergroundview >>
I am almost completely in agreement with your post. I don’t disagree that that’s what very well could happen.
But let me clarify a bit why it is that I choose to provide some defense to this govt.
I’m tired. I’m tired of all this uncompromising racialism and the never-ending cycle of violence which keeps feeding it. I just see this little country being flushed down the tubes because of it. I don’t really care for either Sinhalese or Tamil nationalism. They can all stuff it and learn to live like human beings like the rest of us. It’s a small amount of people (on both sides) who are really causing trouble, who refuse to compromise and to whom ethnicity is more important than humanity. The sooner people of all ethnicities realize this, as indeed many seem to have, the better off we’ll be.
At the same time, I don’t fancy this govt. Nor do I fancy any other govt. which has preceded it. As far as I’m concerned, all govts. have been chock-full of self-serving crooks. Some promise development through trickle effect economies. I’ve never seen anything trickle past the brown sahibs in power. Others promise grass-root level development programs, I’m yet to see anything substantial happening to any grass-root. As an ordinary tax-paying professional, I do not see any difference between either of these types of govts. Our lot as Sri Lankans seems to be to tolerate their ineptitude and do our best to see this country develop.
Development however, has forever been stalled by a nasty little cancerous growth in the northern tip of our island, stubbornly refusing any other treatment other than forcible removal. Eelam or bust. We cannot continue to negotiate and give consessions to parties which are not amenable to negotiation.
Therefore, for the first time, something is actually being done about it. This govt. might be every bad thing you can name it, but it’s made progress on a problem which has thus far proven intractable. Sure, they may have failed to satisfy the utopian idealism espoused by some while doing so. Incidentally, these idealists are the same people who’ve been advocating solutions with zero results to show for it. So do we really have a choice? What are we Sri Lankans hoping for? Some sort of saviour who will magically solve this problem? Should we continue to listen to idealistic rhetoric and convince ourselves of our moral rectitude, shedding crocodile tears over our country’s predicament while shamelessly dining at the Hilton, when it’s the poor people of all ethnicities who are paying with their lives for it? We have to make do with the crooks available to us. And these crooks are doing *something* for a change.
And when someone tries to do *something*, there’s always a vast array of forces waiting to stop them achieving *anything*, demanding that things be done “their way” instead. Funnily, “their way” has never laid an addled egg to impress any of us with. Have you seen any one here say a single word in appreciation of the fact that one horrific evil, the LTTE, has been permanently removed from the equation? All they say is that the GOSL is also a horrific evil. Even if that’s so, aren’t we in a better position having one horrific evil than two at the same time?
So for the people who follow this kind of black & white thinking, when the few options available to most of us Sri Lankans are all gray, all I can say is, no one gives a hoot what you think. People have listened to your pointless rhetoric for ages and you’ve got nothing to show for it. Prabhakaran did not *negotiate* a damned thing, the racialists are continuing with their campaign to rationalize their racialism and no one seems to bother to notice the fact that Sri Lanka itself has changed greatly in the past 60 years but it obviously can’t move forward as long as this status quo is maintained. So now, most people have fallen back on the only option available to them and they’ll tolerate a fair bit of ineptitude, as they always have, to see the problem solved.
And what do our good old idealists to in the meantime? Provide constructive criticism? You wish. Instead, all we see is total condemnation, holier-than-thou BS and black & white thinking. Small wonder that the govt. does not see it fit to respond. Why respond to people who’ve condemned them anyway?
So that’s why I’m here defending the govt. in providing some counter-balancing perspectives over all this one-sided invective vomited by many here. Certainly not because I’m fond of them or because I blindly agree with everything they do, as some seem to think
Jansee >>
So what is your theory? That the govt. is housing half-a-million refugees just for kicks? That the govt., drawing from an infinite well of resources, will continue to clothe, feed and provide medication to these refugees for all eternity just to spite Tamils? How can you spite the Tamils who funded the war by imprisoning their pawns in the Vanni? Hang on, is it an Auschwitz in broad daylight perhaps? Just to dare the international community and invite yet another war-crimes tribunal maybe? I’m just curious to know what you think the govt’s. agenda is.
That the govt. is not truthful, there’s no argument on. What you think the govt. might be doing, I’m just plain curious about. I’ve always been a sucker for conspiracy theories.
Oops. Correction. Quarter-of-a-million and not half-a-million refugees. That’s still a mind-boggling number of mostly innocent people.
To undergroundview and SomewhatDisgusted
SomewhatDisgusted; You correctly point to the Dilemma the govt faces that many try to gloss over
Undergroundview; A refreshing puff of fresh air, thank you for your response.
Over 90% of posters on the web (my estimate) are intent on scoring points over others mostly by ignoring or glossing over factual information when such information does not suit their purpose. This will hardly build bridges and is of no value unless bridge building is not the intent.
Its true that all IDP’s in the Manik farm complex (and similar) are Tamil but it is not true that ALL IDP’s in Sri Lanka are only Tamil.
Muslims and Sinhalese (and probably other communities) were also internally displaced. The LTTE stole all properties and wealth of those who lived in the Northern districts and expelled them allowing them to take only the clothes they wore and five hundred rupees. The Sinhalese in the border villages left their homes after being massacred by the LTTE
So the IDP problem is not limited to the Tamils and refusing to recognize is as such is unfair.
Having established that there are IDP’s belonging to all communities lets consider what goes on at the Manik Farm complex
The main problem at these complexes compared to the other IDP’s is loss of freedom of movement
A risk of terrorism to the population exists from SOME ELEMENTS within the camps. At least one member from each family had to fight for the LTTE under the blood tax system but not all of them were unwilling fighters. There were wiling fighters, which consists of the hardcore indoctrinated with a terrorist ideology. This is the sector that poses a grave danger to civil society.
Crime is a common feature in any society but terrorism is not. Terrorism aims at the heart of civil society and hence will destroy its fabric, unlike all other crime put together. This makes the elimination of Terrorism the number one priority for any Civil Society.
According to the UN, as of 15 Sept 2009 there are 249,872 in camps. If the average per family is 4, then at least 62,468 of these would have fought for the LTTE, due to the blood tax of one per family (excludes 12,727 outside the camps accommodated in Schools etc).
Even if a quarter of these are hard core, it will pose a high level TERRORIST risk to the 20 million civil population of SL
I subscribe unequivocally to the idea that restriction of free movement (in whatever form) of civilian citizens of a country is wrong. Only criminals should be dealt as such.
Unfortunately a govt is expected to protect all its citizens and when faced with just two choices of either restricting temporarily, the freedom of movement of 250,000 or allowing terror attacks on a population of 20,000,000 to take place, the choice though extremely unpalatable will be the former.
This will be true if an identical situation arises in ANY country in the world that is held as a scion of democracy and Human rights.
I give below the views of two Tamils regarding the camps
This was written on 22 April 09 by Dr P. Jeganathan
The 60,000 people who have come out, will join others who have made it out earlier. (Update, 23/04 Thursday: more than 100,000 people have moved out, leaving perhaps 15,000 still in the LTTE Zone) The IDP camps, where displaced are being sheltered, are not ‘concentration camps.’ There are, however, serious questions about the constitutional right of free movement being restricted, until an ‘identification and registration’ process is completed, and I expect the Supreme Court to be moved on this matter soon. The Court has intervened several times earlier in relation to GoSL counter-terror policies and process, finding some un-constitutional and others not. The Court may well allow the ‘registration’ process to take place, if the registration process can be defined as time bound, as it surely can. I do not know. Freedom of movement in the country is already restricted, and is subject to identification checks. This happens to you at an airport all the time, for example, but there are lots of questions that are raised when it happens within your country of citizenship. I have written about this several times, questioning it, but the matter is currectly not accedemic, as such, since there is a clear and present danger that a small portion of the refugees might well be hard core LTTE cadres. Since there are larger number of people invovled, even a small portion may be a very serious matter. As I understand it, if a person does admit to being such a cadre, but asserts that s/he no longer wishes to follow the LTTE, that person will be sent to a rehabilitation camp. There is one up and running in Ambepussa and there do not seem to be any coercive elements involved. If however, a person is a hard core LTTE cadre, and they remain under-cover, and if they are detected by trained, Tamil intelligence officials, they will be subject to arrest and counter-terror interrogations. It is most important to worry about the human rights of those citizens, even though very small in number, and try to ensure that they are subject to a transperent legal process, but it really is a grotesque misunderstanding to call the sum of these camps ‘concentration camps,’ in comparison to Nazi camps, which were about mass labour and mass extermination.
The full article is available at http://www.pjeganathan.org/south-paw/2009/4/22/a-reply-to-an-american-and-an-outsider.html
This is what he says about access to the camps
Most camps, including the massive (second largest IDP camp in the world) manik farm (zone 1,2,3 & 4 which was/is under construction) were/are accessible to some 52 agencies, which include, Sri Lanka NGOs, INGOS and UN agencies.
He further points out the involvement of some who have access, violating the trust by smuggling out IDP’s from the camps in their vehicles.
quote
As of about two weeks ago, restrictions on the entry of agency vehicles carrying personal, but not supplies was imposed. Because allegedly there were people being taken out, in these vehicles.
unquote
http://www.pjeganathan.org/south-paw/2009/5/28/access-to-and-control-of-idp-camps.html
Dr Jeganathan’s assertions are confirmed by that of Mr. Nessan Shankar Raji of EROS who has first hand information about the state of the camps unlike the majority of rabble rousers swarming the web blogs
He states as follows in a communique issued by EROS
Extract
It may be that our people have to be temporarily housed in IDP camps until the areas where they are from are de-mined & cleared of weapons …. used by the LTTE. Civilians in these camps also need to be screened & their identities verified & cross-checked for national security purposes. This is the duty of any responsible Government in power as there are many ex-LTTE Intel agents … including former cadres who need to be rehabilitated before being re-introduced back in to ordinary civilian life. These camps constructed by the SL Govt are a far cry from Concentration Camps as they are being labeled by … LTTE supporters in the West …
I personally visited these camps in April between 9th and 19th & our members on ground in Vavuniya visit the camps regularly to gather feedback from civilians. Yes, there have been issues with food not being delivered on time etc, but our people are not starving or being mistreated. They are receiving 3 meals per day & are being housed in adequate & safe conditions with full medical facilities being provided. There are 52 NGO’s including the ICRC & the UN working on ground….
Nesan Shankar Raji
Senior Leader & spokesperson
Eelam Revolutionary Organisation (EROS)
Eelavar Democratic Front (EDF)
My question about the number who stood up against LTTE brutality was designed to speak to the conscience of those who are intent on driving the two communities wide apart and to expose their duplicity.
As I have pointed out before, the LTTE propaganda arm and the financial arm are intact. What is currently weakened is the military arm. The first step in rejuvenating the military arm is securing the release of fighters currently sleeping within the civilian IDPs
The best way to do that is to create sufficient pressure on the HR front which will also bring about economic pressure with Aid and GSP+. The letters written by Siva Pasupathi (former AG of SL) to the Australian govt to try and prevent the IMF loan stands as proof of such action.
The pseudo concern for the IDPs expressed by the LTTE propagandists must be viewed against this background.
I agree with you that there were people who expressed their concern for these unfortunate Tamil civilians while they were being brutalized by the LTTE and also agree with you that parts of the Tamil Diaspora was shamefully silent when the LTTE abused them.
Unfortunately, those who raised their voices against the LTTE brutality is a very small minority when compared to the new found voices raising HR issues today. This raises serious doubts about the motive of the new voices. Is the concern the civilians or the release of the hardcore terrorists?
Now to the question you posed from me
I believe in what Dr. Jeganathan says above (which I have reproduced)
Those who surrendered or have admitted LTTE links should be rehabilitated forthwith and released. This is taking place as evidenced by some former LTTE cadres who have been released and found jobs overseas.
The hardcore who are trying to stay concealed within the IDP population should be identified as the intent in staying hidden is to try to infiltrate civil society and carry out terrorist activity in the future. But they should be registered to ensure they are subject to a transparent legal process in the future.
Those who are proven to pose no threat to the 20,000,000 strong civil society should be released and supported in their resettlement. This has happened in the East as evidenced in UN reports where 180,610 individuals had returned to Batticaloa and Trincomalee districts
In the meantime all IDP’s whose freedom of movement is restricted to the camps should be provided ALL basic comforts to allow them to live as human beings
SomewhatDisgusted:
“And when someone tries to do *something*, there’s always a vast array of forces waiting to stop them achieving *anything*, demanding that things be done “their way” instead.”
Well, what can I say to a bunch of liars who persuade the IDPs to flee to freedom and then at gun-point lock them up in internment camps. After all, isn’t this supposed to be one of the largest hostage rescue operation in the world.
Every step of this horrendous war, the SL regime proved that it is as bad, or dare I say, even worse than the LTTE. Now, after the war, it wants to increase its army strength. Yes, I believe it has no choice but to increase the army because in the way it has treated the IDPs, it is not building bridges but a hostile ground for deep seated resentment. Even in economics one can talk about possible theories but we are dealing with slime balls and chameleons, in no manner different from the LTTE, that change not by the day but by the hour and what theories you want to know? How come the whole world knows what this regime is up to that you seem not to know, or pretend not to know? All it is up to is to whip the anger and resentment of the IDPs and the Tamils who should be cowed into submission and if they resist, there will be another war, only that this time there will be only the defenceless Tamils who can be massacred at will and what a great way to reduce their numbers. The shooting incident is just one small indication of that – what kind of a govt shoots at defenceless civilians. It does not want independent observes into the war zones because it wants to hide from this world its war crimes. Prove me wrong on all these counts.
This regime is very well known for shifting its goal posts and lying through its teeth. The APRC drama and the Eminent Persons fiasco are but just two to name from a long list. It just does not have the credibility anymore. Perhaps, it was believed that with the LTTE gone, the regime may after all show some positive acts of salvaging its credibility by handling the IDPs issues as it promised but as everyone knows pressure has to be brought on this regime before it can even consider small efforts towards the IDPs resettlement. Its claims of LTTE cadres and mines have been thrown in the rubbish bin, as such arguments don’t hold water anymore.
OfftheCuff:
Of course, when you take on a “guided tour” Jeganathans and Nesans, what do you expect. These are people “funded” by the SL regime with a holiday in SL. If the regime can allow such people who are not even residents of SL why not allow legitimately elected representatives who have been demanding to visit the camps? If, as you believe, this SL regime has nothing to hide, why not allow independent observers and newsmedia to visit the war zone and the camps. Let them tell us that everyhting is ok. You are nothing more than the lackeys of this regime and why should anyone trust you? The more you guys write, the more suspicious it becomes that this regime is trying to hide something and its hands are not clean as it claims them to be. Tell the truth and shame the devil, don’t you think so?
A good opportunity was when the EU observers visited the country to carry out an evaluation on the basis of the application for the renewal of the GSP+.
“As I have pointed out before, the LTTE propaganda arm and the financial arm are intact. What is currently weakened is the military arm. The first step in rejuvenating the military arm is securing the release of fighters currently sleeping within the civilian IDPs”
Hello, wake up from your slumber. Reports have surfaced that the LTTE cadres have already escaped by paying huge sums of money and those left are the civilians. Even if we are to accept your argument that they (LTTE adres) are still in the camps, this is the fifth month after the end of the war. There are still women and children in these camps. How come that those who would have been cleared in these five months have not been allowed to leave? The regime also now tells that day passes to seek work outside the camps are to be issued. Does this mean that there is nothing to hold these people for or is this another twist like claiming the release of IDPS but in actuality they were transferred to other camps.
It is a known fact that it is only under pressure SL implements at least a tiny bit of its promises, albeit belatedly. Of course, all this could have ended in a great manner. With so much goodwill over the defeat of the LTTE, it could have capitalised on building a good future but with a President with the mindset of a politician and never one to rise as a statesman, the gaping wounds of those who thought that they have escaped from the clutches of the ruthless LTTE still subsist.
You may continue this talk of anyone raising these issues as LTTE aligned. Continue as much as you wish but the problem, until the govt is serious in resolving and shows positive indication of doing, is not going to go away. I have said this a number of times.
Jansee>>
“All it is up to is to whip the anger and resentment of the IDPs and the Tamils who should be cowed into submission and if they resist, there will be another war, only that this time there will be only the defenceless Tamils who can be massacred at will and what a great way to reduce their numbers.”
And do you reckon the facts fit your theory? Since the govt.’s main intention, as you say, is to massacre Tamils, why don’t they just send the refugees back to the Vanni and make them walk over the LTTE’s minefields? Surely, this would accelerate the process of reducing their numbers, and achieve the objective you assumed of them?
Thinking about it a little bit more, why not put up a huge military cordon? And why not just leave the refugees to fend for themselves in their original areas, areas you claim contain no weaponry and therefore pose no risk? Why clothe and feed them to boot? Seems to me that there could be easier ways to just cow Tamils into submission. I mean, something a little more subtle and a little less expensive than housing them in huge camps maybe?
So, no, your theory isn’t very convincing. While I appreciate why you might be having delusions of persecution, given that the govt. has not been honest at all times, that doesn’t mean any wild conspiracy theory can explain why the govt. would run camps when there are far easier methods available to them to achieve the aims you claim they have. And that was my original question. Why do *you* think they are running these camps?
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Because then the begging bowl would dry up very very fast. India, China, Pakistan, Libya, etc.
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Because they know when the last IDP’s leave the camps, Eelam War IV will commence quite quickly.
“Since the govt.’s main intention, as you say, is to massacre Tamils, why don’t they just send the refugees back to the Vanni and make them walk over the LTTE’s minefields?”
Because then the begging bowl would dry up very very fast. India, China, Pakistan, Libya, etc would shy away from “donating.”
“Why do *you* think they are running these camps?”
Because they know when the last IDP’s leave the camps, Eelam War IV will commence quite quickly.
SomewhatDisgusted:
“And do you reckon the facts fit your theory? Since the govt.’s main intention, as you say, is to massacre Tamils, why don’t they just send the refugees back to the Vanni and make them walk over the LTTE’s minefields? Surely, this would accelerate the process of reducing their numbers, and achieve the objective you assumed of them?”
No one is getting fooled here. The massacre that happened during the last days of war is the most inhuman and the most bloodiest. There has never been guesses that this regime is not only brutal but has little or no regard for human lives, in this case it happens to be Tamils. It knows the world is watching and while the world turned the other way to bury the ruthless LTTE it is not going to be as cosy now that it involves civilians. As I have explained earlier, it defies logic and reason – the regime says it is keeping the IDPs in the camps because of mines and you have still not answered my two questions. If mines is the issue, why not let them stay with their relatives and/or friends. Again, if mines is the issue why are they kept in the camps with guns pointed at them? Why not allow them freedom of movement – in and out of the camps. If the issue is the filtering of ex-LTTE combatants, then in the last five months, it could release all those who had already been screened. So, when is this regime going to tell us the truth? or you are going to go around in circles in defending this regime.
There are deep seated animosities between the two races and both have to share blame for the predicament that the country is facing. Having said that, there can be no excuse for this regime for the punitive actions, when the entire Jaffna library was burnt to ashes with the army preventing anyone trying to save it, the army and police watching Tamils being massacred during the July 83 pogrom. And don’t forget how this regime packed up Tamils in buses from Colombo to remove them from Colombo and because of the international pressure it relented.
The greatest concern is the bitter racial enmity is tearing this nation apart and I would have thought that there would have been some sincerity on the part of this regime to move ahead with reconciliation and resettlement so that people can get on with their lives. This regime could have made a positive contribution by making a sincere effort in extending a friendly hand to heal the wounds they have long suffered and endured. Alas it doesn’t seem to be that. When they escaped from the clutches of the LTTE any reasonable person would have thought and expected to be treated fairly as a citizen of this country. Their misery has not abated and it is like poking fun at them, caging them up and threaten them that they will be shot if they leave. Do you think this is a joke? So, how on earth do you expect to win the trust? Do you think it is for fun that the army numbers are going to be increased when the deafening claim is that terrorism has been completely defeated? Go after the LTTE, they have no respect for lives and democracy but there is no decency or right to lock up civilians. Thank god that the delusion label you want to affix on those who raise these issues is not sticking.
As I have reiterated a number of times, there was (quite frankly I don’t know whether there is still, as this regime has gleefully screwed itself up) a fantastic opportunity to put the past behind. How could a regime that received a pat for defeating terrorism could so quickly lose it is beyond me.
Dear Dr P. Saravanamuttu
I have raised concerns that arose from your provocatively Headlined article above, in the following two posts
September 25, 2009 @ 12:22 pm
September 27, 2009 @ 1:27 am
I would like to know your learned views regarding the matters raised therein.
At the same time I would also like you to address your mind to the following post that I addressed to undergroundview and SomewhatDisgusted as it contains additional information relevant to your article
October 4, 2009 @ 2:57 pm
Awaiting an erudite response from you
Off the Cuff
Jansee >>
You said:
” you have still not answered my two questions. If mines is the issue, why not let them stay with their relatives and/or friends. Again, if mines is the issue why are they kept in the camps with guns pointed at them? Why not allow them freedom of movement – in and out of the camps. If the issue is the filtering of ex-LTTE combatants, then in the last five months, it could release all those who had already been screened. So, when is this regime going to tell us the truth? or you are going to go around in circles in defending this regime.”
I don’t think mines were ever a severe issue. Mines do not justify restricting freedom of movement. If someone voluntarily chooses to walk into a minefield, that’s mostly his/her business. It’s not a valid reason. I agree.
What are significant issues however, are the weapons caches which are buried about and the LTTE cadres mingling with civilians who will have the potential to unearth those caches.
If you check the news, you’ll see that weapons caches are being recovered on a regular basis and basically discovered using the same process as demining. This is a significant threat and I believe this is what’s collectively referred to as “demining”.
Secondly, your question about screening IDPs. So far, 10,000 have been identified. Most of these people are discovered through intelligence gathering and finger pointing. There is no label on a person that says “this person here might have been a terrorist cadre”. So that may explain why IDPs are not being systematically screened and released as you expect them to be. It’s just not as simple a process as one might hope. In addition, perhaps there are other logistical issues with managing that many people. Perhaps there are other (more insidious) reasons, as you suggest. But so far, the most sane reason seems to be to screen for cadres.
I asked you for reasons as to why you think the govt. is running camps, not why you think the govt. is despicable. So far, you’ve given me a whole list of their screw ups (some with which I agree with and some with which I don’t) but not a single reason to explain why the govt. might be running these camps. Your anger against the govt. (understandable or not) should not be confused with reasons for running the camp.
“And don’t forget how this regime packed up Tamils in buses from Colombo to remove them from Colombo and because of the international pressure it relented.”
This statement is incomplete as it leaves out a significant point. The Tamils who were packed up were people who had no business being there, not every Tamil in Colombo. While I too don’t agree with that decision as it violates freedom of movement and increases racial profiling and am glad it was overturned, that does not mean the intentions were necessarily bad. Just dumb. But hey, hold a position of responsibility and you’ll find out how easy it is to make dumb decisions.
The greatest concern is the bitter racial enmity is tearing this nation apart and I would have thought that there would have been some sincerity on the part of this regime to move ahead with reconciliation and resettlement so that people can get on with their lives.
I agree. If only things were that simple. There is a significant section of people who refuse to let others get on with their lives and choose instead to stir up racial enmity so that their own racial goals can be achieved. These are the people who are our common enemy. You see them quite regularly on these forums and their express intent is to start Eelam War V. If instead, those same people refocused their energy on establishing a just society for all races and address any issues that can be considered unfair by minorities, perhaps we could have progressed ages ago. But as long as the goal is establishing racist Eelams and splitting this country, I don’t think anyone’s going to get on with their lives anytime soon. That’s why defeating their racist ideologies are of great importance.
BTW, please read this discussion between Devanesan Nesiah and “Off the cuff”. You may find alternate perspectives in relation to internment. http://www.groundviews.org/2009/09/17/the-internment-%E2%80%93-a-collective-punishment/
Cheers!
SomewhatDisgusted:
“Secondly, your question about screening IDPs. So far, 10,000 have been identified. Most of these people are discovered through intelligence gathering and finger pointing. There is no label on a person that says “this person here might have been a terrorist cadre”. So that may explain why IDPs are not being systematically screened and released as you expect them to be. It’s just not as simple a process as one might hope. In addition, perhaps there are other logistical issues with managing that many people. Perhaps there are other (more insidious) reasons, as you suggest. But so far, the most sane reason seems to be to screen for cadres.”
The SL EU Ambassador at Brussels Ravinatha Ariyasinha has officially stated that more than 100,000 IDPs have already been screened and issued with IDs. Isn’t what you have written flies flatly on your face? Come on friend, for once, could you guys be truthful?
I agree that this nation could ill-afford another bitter war but that is precisely what this regime wants, or so it seems. That is why many of us moderates want this handshake, reconciliation and move on but unfortunately this regime appears to intentionally sowing the seeds for another uprising. It is not a surprise anymore – with the increase in defence budget recently announced. This regime only believes in the forced subjugation of the Tamils and this is the inescapable view of the majority of the Tamils and while the regime had the easy way to decimate the LTTE, it is not going to be that easy to tackle the diaspora and the international community. That will be wishful thinking. It is exactly this we want to avoid. Such antagonism will not benefit anyone.
Jansee
Thanks a lot for your awesome posts!!
Some friends of mine, actually record your comments on the cassettes and listen to them at home in a garage, while repairing their cars.
The truth is powerful!! I guess, the pen sometimes is mightier than the sword!!
I saw on another thread- Off the Cuff-demands of the URL about the Channel 4 video .
http://www.tamilnet.com/art.html?catid=13&artid=30262
“Sri Lanka’s government did four separate studies of the video footage that purports to show Sri Lankan troops killing naked, blindfolded men during the civil war.
However, Philip Alston, U.N. investigator on extrajudicial killing, said none of the studies cited by Sri Lanka appears to be independent and impartial”
I’m a bit worry, about this cruel and inhuman reshuffle of Tamils (like cattle) from one concentration camp to another.
It looks like….it will become a norm – rampant colonization, resettlement-but not to the native villages, ridiculous and un-ending “security clearances” even for 1 year old orphan-baby and the sad and vile enslavement of all Tamils.
What do you think about the Islets of Jaffna Tragedy?
Because, the modus operandi of the Sinhalese Colonial Masters is cruelly unfolding right there.
In my opinion, this is the future for the NE Tamils, period!!
http://www.tamilnet.com/search.html?string=islets+of+Jaffna
Can you look it over and give an input on this? Thanks
You are welcome to my blog
Mawatha Silva
Mawatha Silva:
While I fervently hope that Islets of jaffna confinement is not true, knowing the history of this regime, anything is possible. There cannot be any dispute in SL dealing with them in accordance with the laws of the land and due observance of international covenants but another “abu ghraib” is a clear no-no.
Dear Dr P. Saravanamuttu
Three weeks ago I raised concerns that arose from your provocatively Headlined article above, in the following two posts
September 25, 2009 @ 12:22 pm
http://www.groundviews.org/2009/09/23/a-continuation-of-war-by-other-means/comment-page-1/#comment-9317
September 27, 2009 @ 1:27 am
http://www.groundviews.org/2009/09/23/a-continuation-of-war-by-other-means/comment-page-1/#comment-9362
I would like to know your learned views regarding the matters raised therein.
At the same time I would also like you to address your mind to the following post that I addressed to undergroundview and SomewhatDisgusted as it contains additional information relevant to your article
October 4, 2009 @ 2:57 pm
Awaiting an erudite response from you
Off the Cuff
That there are Racists within the UN system is confirmed by the following statement made by Prof. Philip Alston, UN Special Rapporteur on Extrajudicial, Summary or Arbitrary Executions to Radio Australia
He says
“the bottom line is that you have very serious allegations and you’ve got a handful of experts who are extremely close to the government to provide no sense of an impartial investigation of the type required ………And finally, they have used the analysis of another gentleman who is apparently based in Australia, but of Sri Lankan origin, who claims to have and appears to have a significant technical credentials in this area.”
The words “another gentleman” ….. “but” of Sri Lankan origin….. who “claims to have” and “appears” to have …..” is innuendo and conveys DOUBT
Here is an UN official, trying to discredit an acknowledged world leader in his field of expertise by casting an explicit doubt, in reference to Mr. Siri Hewawitharana who is one of the world’s leading digital video systems experts.
He is the former Head of Cisco’s global broadcast and digital video practice. He was Head of systems engineering for Star TV Hong Kong, Head of Visual Communications for OTC and Director of Engineering for WIM TV. And as Chief architect of Optus’ Network Systems Design Broadcast and Satellite TV operation, he was responsible for creating and operating Optus’ $47 million Pay TV Video Operations Centre and presently is the Executive Director at IPTV Systems.
The Data used for analysis was what Channel 4 published. Its available in the Public Domain. The analysis and conclusions are based on TECHNICAL facts. The UN Rapporteur has the “Whole World” to choose any other expert of his choice from but he does not conduct his own Technical Analysis and instead fall back on innuendo to cast doubt. In fact what is the need to carry out what he calls a “…..of an impartial investigation….” when there is a detailed report made available an the Data analyzed are in the Public Domain? What prevented him from making his own analysis using experts of his choice and publishing a counter claim BEFORE shooting off his mouth?
It seems to me that Prof. Philip Alston cannot find an expert from the whole world who is willing and is able to challenge the Technical Analysis of Mr. Siri Hewawitharana.
The UNHRC has stated that being a lawyer herself, she had thought it fit not to make a pronouncement on this issue until the authenticity of the contents of the video in question was established.
There is a fall out when someone like Prof. Philip Alston with a privileged position as an official of the UN system deviates from the impartiality that is demanded from his office.
When he chose to use innuendo in the way he had used it in this case, he would be shooting himself in the leg as the LTTE is proven to have bribed even an US Congressman and under cover Agents from the US security services whom they believed were US State Dept Officials, in an attempt to get de-listed from the US Terrorist list (FBI)
The LTTE is very active in Australia and has access to billions of US Dollars.