Monster
The degree of denial of Prabhakaran’s death within the expatriate Tamil consciousness is the best evidence of the pathology of Tamil ultra-nationalism. Rohana Wijeweera’s followers were fanatics, but when their leader was gone, they did not go into mass denial. The hardcore elements of the Tamil Diaspora really have to get their heads around it: Elvis has left the building. The Sun God has set, and his son won’t be rising either.
The Tigers were among the best known brands in the terrorist universe and by defeating them so completely and utterly Sri Lanka and its armed forces have made a contribution to regional and global security and stability. They have made an example of the Tigers and thus made the world a safer place. Precious little thanks we have got for it.
In the movie Lethal Weapon, when the villains take his partner’s family hostage and he plans to rescue them, Mel Gibson (playing Martin Riggs) tells Danny Glover (playing his cop partner Roger Murtaugh) “we’re going to get bloody on this one – you know that don’t you?”. Well, we were always going to have to get bloody on this one, the final battles to destroy Prabhakaran, and that’s the way it played itself out. From Berlin to Grozhny such endgames are anything but pretty but that’s the way it goes when the enemy is fascist or simply fanatical. We did it much better than most – no extensive use of airpower and no antipersonnel bombs – and the only ones I can think of who have done better, were lead by someone that the UN General Assembly President Miguel D’Escoto has recently called “a saint” : Fidel Castro. Fidel is an exception. (But let me not mount my favorite hobby horse – my views on Fidel’s ethics of violence are critically discussed in the current issues of Radical Philosophy and the International Journal of Zizek Studies).
Prabhakaran was a monster who laid waste to the land and tormented its people, and he was slain, as monsters should be. It will be argued that Prabhakaran was made into a monster by the Sinhalese. That’s a cop out. As I told an audience at Jaffna university in 1982 which almost certainly included LTTE cadre, the National Guard of Nicaraguan dictator Somoza was in the habit of applying lard on the genitals of political prisoners and unleashing attack dogs on them – and yet, the Sandinista guerrillas were among the most humane and discriminating in their use of violence, which greatly contributed to their victory. Furthermore, the nature of Sinhala oppression does not in any way explain Prabhakaran’s war against the IPKF and the Indo-Lanka accord, followed up by the assassination of Rajiv Gandhi. In a Karmic cyclical coincidence, Prabhakaran paid the price as Rajiv’s family was swept into office and that too, just days before Rajiv’s 18th death anniversary. (By the way, the humanistic Sandinista revolution crested with the bazooka shell fired by Gorriaran Merlo, the leader of the Argentinean ERP, destroying exiled dictator Somoza in his armored Mercedes in the capital of Paraguay a year later.) Prabhakaran had piled up too many blood debts, in more than one party, community and country, and his fanatical fans overseas had made too much of what he and his core cadre would be capable of when they slipped the Sri Lankan cordon, for things to end in a less complete and final manner.
The call for “humanitarian access” must not be a cover for peaceful R2P or incremental “humanitarian interventionism”, achieving through the back door that which was repelled at the front gates. Those who dream and conspire of war crimes tribunals, which would punish Sri Lanka for having decapitated their favorite terrorists, have to dust off their political science (or at least in one case simply consult their illustrious father). Such international kangaroo courts succeed with defeated states and leaderships, or leaders of fragmented, failed or failing states — not a strong successful unified one like Sri Lanka, which has just won a war, exhibiting steely determination. Sri Lanka is also in the wrong continent and the wrong neighborhood for vicious nonsense of this sort to have more than nuisance value and prove anything much beyond a heuristic device to educate a nation. How can one describe and define the friends of our mortal enemy the Tigers?
So where are we now? Forget the grudging assessments of wiseacres that it is only the “conventional war “or “territorial war” that is over. The national territory of Sri Lanka has been reunified after a quarter century or more, but that is not all. The Tiger army lies destroyed on the battlefield (the stragglers are being hunted down) and the Tiger leadership has been eliminated even more thoroughly than the JVP’s was.
In 1988 I published a series entitled Unfinished War, Protracted Crisis, in the Lanka Guardian, which reappeared as a book, Sri Lanka: the Travails of a Democracy, published by Vikas, New Delhi in 1995. In it I made the basic point that while Prabhakaran always fought a total war, his enemies, the Sri Lankan state and the Indian state fought a limited war. For me, this was the secret of Prabhakaran’s success and the central weakness that we had to overcome. In these writings, and in commentaries over the last ten years in the (now defunct) Weekend Express and The Island, I drew attention to three other points: though tactically and organizationally brilliant, Prabhakaran, when viewed from a comparative international and historical point of view, was a strategic failure even in comparison with the Hezbollah, let alone the Vietnamese; the need to follow General Giap in privileging the “annihilation of the living forces of the enemy” over territorial acquisition; and the fact that Prabhakaran had never really faced simultaneous offensives on several fronts.
With the Rajapakse administration it all came together and fused: a leader and commander in chief with the requisite political will; a recomposed power bloc with a hegemonic fraction that had a strongly nationalist and even a martial tradition and came from a province with a patriotic-martial heritage and consciousness;Â the leadership in all three services, especially the army, which had joined a military in combat and had matured in war; public opinion that rejected appeasement and had learned the hard way that only the military defeat of the Tigers would set the nation free at last.
Prabhakaran’s monstrosity had its roots and sources, and these are not located in Sinhala oppression but closer home. When an authentic reformist option is proffered (and in September 1987, after the Thileepan fast, the LTTE was conceded 7 out of 12 seats including the chairmanship, of an interim council of a merged Northeast, with the Sri Lankan army confined to barracks), fanatics tend to reject these and continue the struggle for the original maximum objective. However, they lose the support of the bulk of the people who then shift to the side of the ex- terrorist militants striving to work the system. The most revealing moment of Tamil ultranationalist consciousness came when the LTTE fought India and later, murdered Rajiv Gandhi. Prabhakaran was not marginalized within the Tamil community. The ultranationalist Tamil mainstream stuck by him and the Tigers in a war that was not against the Sinhala foe but against a secular quasi federal democratic republic, in which Tamils had a linguistic region.
That takes us to the heart of the problem. The self image of Tamil ultra-nationalism is such that it is hostile to India when the latter does not simply forgive and forget the Rajiv murder and extend unconditional patronage to the Tamil secessionist cause. This is clear from the demonstrations in the Diaspora to the street attack on an Indian army truck in Tamil Nadu. What the Indian people in general and the Tamil Nadu people in particular thought about it is evidenced in the voting patterns in the recently concluded Indian elections.
It is the hubristic arrogance of Tamil ultra-nationalism that saw demoniac incarnation in Prabhakaran, and brought on itself crushing defeat under the guns of the Sri Lankan armed forces.
The truth is that Tamil ultra-nationalism (even in the peaceful form of the TNA) is rejectionist, in that it rejects the limits of the possible as defined by the Indo-Lanka consensus: “maximum devolution within the Sri Lankan constitution” (as Pranab Mukherjee puts it), starting with the reactivation of the 13th amendment. Thus there is a contradiction between Tamil ultra-nationalism and the existing state system of South Asia. The former demands a rupture of and with the latter, but has no capacity of enforcing it, while the sole realistic option is the reform of and within the existing state system.
For their part the Sinhala nationalists and ultra-nationalists must know that joint Indo-Lanka press statement of May 21, 2009, which must be prudently read as almost a coda or annexure to President Rajapakse’s May 19th and 22nd speeches, also represents the minimum commitment that has to be kept, the lowest price that has to be paid, for the assurance of neighborhood and regional support without which Sri Lanka cannot offset Western pressure and the Western-Tiger Diaspora bloc.
Tamil nationalism has failed in its successive projects: 50:50, federalism and nonviolent agitation, full-on secessionist war, incarnated in the Tamil Congress, the Federal party and the TULF, the Tamil Eelam armed movement and the Tigers. No return to any of these is going to work. Even decades down the road, any attempt to revive terrorist or guerrilla war will result in a swift and decisive State response informed by the lessons of temporizing that cost us dearly. The Sri Lankan armed forces is saturated with officers and men steeled in the experience of successful warfare, and this will give us a formidable military machine for many years, even decades, to come.
This leaves the famous Diaspora option. While the Tiger army has been decimated, the Tiger movement still exists, is global, and has a higher profile than ever before. It is a threat to the Sri Lankan state and society but it cannot deliver Tamil Eelam because a small minority really cannot carve out a separate state on a small island on which the vast majority is unalterably opposed to the idea, is willing pay a heavy price and wage war to prevent such an outcome, and will always throw up a leadership capable of doing so. If there is another Prabhakaran, as some portentously claim there will be, there will also be another Mahinda Rajapakse, another Gotabhaya Rajapakse and another Sarath Fonseka.
The details are now beginning to leak (see reports in the Telegraph, UK and the Weekend Australian) of last ditch, high level efforts in certain Western quarters to save the Tiger leadership. These pressures and conspiracies probably sealed the Tigers’ fate ever tighter. They give us a glimpse of the networks out there and the games some people play. The external danger should neither be underestimated nor overestimated. Prabhakaran’s Tigers could not prevail but they damaged our country and its prospects; distorted our lives. So also the globalized Tiger movement: it cannot prevail but it must be combated and defeated. The crisis of Sri Lanka’s external relations is a post-Kadirgamar crisis. The external threat to Sri Lanka will require the maturation of conditions and consciousness to the precise point that it did in the case of the military threat posed by Prabhakaran, which led to the evolution and emergence as a vanguard, of the most able elements available.
External pressure, especially extra-regional pressure (involving or based in ex-colonial states) hardly ever causes the widening of political space in a Third World country. In most Asian contexts it generates a backlash and de-legitimizes the cause it espouses, discrediting perhaps unfairly, the minorities and minority politicians as allies of hostile external forces. Even where the context is not one of ethnic polarization, patronage from adversarial external sources only de-legitimizes local actors.
If the Tiger Diaspora wants a separate state or a confederation, it had better seek it in one of the countries in which they are concentrated, because it is certainly not going to be achieved either on the island of Sri Lanka or the soil of India. If any elements in the West sympathize or support such a cause they had better grant it on their soil, because it ain’t gonna happen anywhere in South Asia. Overseas Tamil secessionism and its neo-imperialist patrons will find that Asia is a continent too far.
(These are the strictly personal views of the writer)
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Great article, i thoroughly enjoyed reading it
I’m fine with the closing paragraphs on the stand on the ultra-nationalistic Tamil Diaspora. But the rest of the article is a few bricks short of a thought-block!
Dayan is the Sinhalese answer to Suren Surenthiran, spokesman of the BTF.
“It will be argued that Prabhakaran was made into a monster by the Sinhalese. That’s a cop out.”
Perhaps he wasnt. But he was a monster made BY the Sinhalese, in part. which is what we conveniently ignore.
“the National Guard of Nicaraguan dictator Somoza was in the habit of applying lard on the genitals of political prisoners and unleashing attack dogs on them – and yet, the Sandinista guerrillas were among the most humane and discriminating in their use of violence, which greatly contributed to their victory.”
Thats a dumb analogy for a pretty obvious reason – there was no race issue. Hence there were no race hate mobs to go on pillages; just the goons of the Establishment. Just people against institutions. What Dayan SHOULD take out of the CONTRAST between the Sandinistas and the LTTE is how easily a non-race based movement can re-assimilate itself with the mainstream. If Dayan is still in wonderment as to why Rohana Wijeweera’s ‘fanatics’ reintegrated themselves with the majority of Sri Lanka after losing, he has the answer right there with the Sandinista – that ‘majority’ were their own people.
I believe Dayan knows this. But he uses that analogy anyway to serve his purpose. Just like Suren Surenthiran when he likens the Tamils to the Jews.
“the worst readers are those who behave like plundering troops: they take away a few things they can use, dirty and confound the remainder…”
-Nietzsche
Bravo, Dayan!
And again, the mirror image of Suren who plays up the humanitarian crisis to the advantage of the pro-LTTE viewpoint, Dayan plays it so way down that he almost says that all we did was ‘decapitate the favourite terrorists’ of the international community. Not a word about the civilian casualties. Suren would play it in reverse and talk only about the civilians, and stay mum about the terrorists who died.
“Tamil nationalism has failed in its successive projects: 50:50, federalism and nonviolent agitation, full-on secessionist war, incarnated in the Tamil Congress, the Federal party and the TULF, the Tamil Eelam armed movement and the Tigers. No return to any of these is going to work. Even decades down the road, any attempt to revive terrorist or guerrilla war will result in a swift and decisive State response informed by the lessons of temporizing that cost us dearly. The Sri Lankan armed forces is saturated with officers and men steeled in the experience of successful warfare, and this will give us a formidable military machine for many years, even decades, to come.”
Thats where most of Sri Lanka is right now. In a state of self-congratulatory pride at having crushed the last of many attempts at Tamil ‘self-determination’ over the past half a century. Never mind why the problem keeps coming up, right?
Heck, can we expect anything else from a country of people who spend six hundred million rupees every year importing material for mosquito repellents, but never bother to clean their own gutters and yards?
I’m not even gonna START on the quote from “Lethal Weapon”!
This clown “Mel Gibson” is a classic example of a little learning being dangerous. He thinks that the ethical use of violence bya liberation movement is suspended if the context is that of race. he has not heard of the liberation movements in portuguese africa, i.e. in Guinea Bissau, mozmbique and Angola, where there was a clear black/whitecontext suffused with racism. Those liberation movements were so expemplary as to influence the portuguese colonial militaryitself and caused its internal radicalisationto the point that a revolution took place in portugal. This moron also does not know of the ANC whose commitment to multiracialism was manifested in its selective, non/terrorist use of violence. The main theorist and organzer of its military wing was a white, jewish communist. maybe mel gibson thinks that south africa did not have a race context! where does GV get these people from? don’t they graduate from any university?
I am glad to know that Mr. Jayatilleke’s opinions are strictly personal. His penchant for shooting from the hip suggests an early childhood education in the Western but, regrettably, no education beyond those boyhood years. Not to worry, Mr. Jayatilleke, Mel Gibson did not graduate from the same university which helped shaped your fine civic, even gentlemanly values.
Dayan
GV is a superb initiative and a such a sounding board for people who support, truly support the LTTE. Since there leader had no education, and rather sadly turned out to be such a hulang pumbapu puppet, (only puffed up by the Norweigians and RW!) dont expect these guys to be educated, informed or to possess any intelligence!
Actually, Mel Gibson, who tried doing some wild-west style shooting certainly shot the barn to hell while aiming at the horse. Unfortunately, when prejudice is your driving force, valid points are diluted in the hail of random firing. “Citizen” seems to have joined forces but also fired a round at the barn?
Dayan did not deny civilian casualties, his “Lethal Weapon” passage was precisely on the nature of it. He’s also already addressed the sadly misinterpreted but vehemently contested analogy of the ethical guerillas.
The one failure that Mel Gibson did note correctly, was Dayan’s failure to acknowledge the state’s contribution to this issue and the steps taken to address that dimension, now that many are in a suitably euphoric mood. The Tamil ultra-nationalists may have had schemes of their own, but the state contributed in no small measure to help those schemes along by ensuring support from the Tamil public for the LTTE, which very nearly materialized the nationalists’ racist dream of Eelam.
So what of that dimension? What of the historical contributions by the government and the Sinhalese ultra-nationalists? What’s the future plan to rectify those issues? And what has become of the Sinhalese ultra-nationalist? It would be interesting to hear Dayan’s views.
keep up the good work DJ , you are a light in this room full of darkness !!!!!!!!!
Alwis has also left the building with elvis,,
Nice article for a change. It was getting a bit tedious with the pessimism,self-loathing etc… I live abroad. Western societies always stick up for themselves whatever their short-comings. When Sri Lankans do (if they even try!)- people call it nationalism, racism etc. and bring petty differences into the picture. I barely hear a positive thing about the country from Sri Lankans here, but nearly all of them are pinning to get back home for their retirement! “I am Sinhala you are Tamil”-blah blah…There seriously needs to be a move to forging a SRI LANKAN identity. Enough of this b*s race issues. Learn to live together for pete’s sake!
Good job Dayan, SL needs more people with your skills.
P.S I enjoyed the comments just as much!
dayan – a question for you to ask the US and UK ambassdors when you meet them next
If US is so concerned on human rights -why havent they accepted the UN court on human rights – beacuse they say they dont want any US person being prosecuted on human rights…
UK – is there a statute limit on Human rights? – if not UK can start with owning up for the human rights viloations pre independence like shooting of our Henry Pederis without trial??
Keep up your good work – this site would be so one sided without you…!!!!!
Very good work Dayan, I thoroughly enjoyed your article. And a small suggestion, will you be able to comment on power-sharing / devolving model that is suitable for SL, so the minority problem will not take a 180 degree turn and once again start within states / units of governance?
Dayan, thanks for a great article and more over I wanted to thank you for the great work at the UN. I don’t have your email so better here since you will read it. Today’s resolution is justice for all the bad press Sri Lanka has been getting thanks to the LTTE propaganda machinery in over drive. Finally Sri Lanka is off the Google news home page and focus is on Pakistan! Of which I heard today over a million displaced?!? Thanks to US UK etcetera.. Rightfully the front page!!
And EU, UK, US (lets face it was Hillary really blowing some steam reciprocating Tamil diasporas immense funding into her failed presidency campaign), wanting to probe Sri Lanka’s human rights and our IDPs? When we only have ¼ the IDPs compared to Pakistan’s Swat valley? I don’t think they have been even provided proper aid. I am pretty sure our IDPs have more aid atm. It doesn’t take a genius to figure out why..
Long as they kept bullying Lanka, sheep like media will keep their narrow vision on SL instead of where the real crisis is. Now the press is snowballing on Pakistan’s frontlines where their terror war is going on. Really believe me because I say so.. they’re true terrorists – not citizens of some country who have family as well. So no point focusing HR spot light on them. Hypocrisy!
Screw em I say. I admire this administrations balls to abandon the useless and side with the useful. Who knows where it will take us. I really don’t care. At least a full frontal war is over. That’s a start!
Dear Dayan,
I’m glad that you not only believe that a little learning is dangerous, but say so too. In a world full of people without degrees (such as myself) and people without consciences (such as everyone except yourself) its heartening to see an age-old adage being hacked so aptly.
Not so apt is your contrast of the ANC and the guinea bissau revolutionaries with the LTTE. this is is flawed for the same reason as the Sandinista one. The sympathies of the majority of those countries was with the revolutionaries, because they DID represent the majority. Which is why apartheid could never HAVE worked in the long run. It was only a matter of time before it came down. Not so with our ethnic divide. for one, we’re dealing with a minority, for another, the discrimination they face in sri lanka is much harder to prove, assess, or even discuss as openly as apartheid. Fat chance of something like that coming to a resolution.
Anyway, as i said earlier, i know that you know this. But someone has to balance out the radical polarization of the likes of Suren Surenthiran, who periodically paints the LTTE with haloes. And it just had to be you. I admire you for that. It must suck having to walk widdershins with what your mind tells you is right, just to keep the flag flying.
But i digress. I returned to this page to converse on the point brought up by you on civilian casualties being a regrettable necessity, and that of “Observer”, (right above me) who gratefully acknowledges all that you have done to help the UNHRC wipe our slates squeaky clean. never mind what the world thinks. our consciences are clean as glass cleaned with sulphuric acid, right, folks?
yesterdays decision has steeped almost every Sinhalese in Sri Lanka with a tremendous sense of self-righteousness. we showed ‘em didnt we? lets wave the flag a bit harder, light a few more crackers and feed the cop at the junction some more kiri-buth while we cheer from the back of our double cab! sure we bombed ‘em, but we bombed ‘em to save ‘em, right?
i’m sorry to be alone on this, but i cant make myself celebrate.
why? since bombing people because the enemy hides within them is a shitty thing to do. but it is at least comprehensible. bombing them while calling them ur own people is not.
i think the whole problem here is that we find it pretty easy to use terms like ‘regrettable yet inevitable’ and ‘necessary tragedy’ when it doesnt involve someone killing our own parents and crippling us to disarm a terrorist hiding next door because they ran out of options.
so, the relatives of people who died in hiroshima and nagasaki probably view the term ‘regrettable necessity’ a little differently from us.
Dont get me wrong; i’m glad the war as i knew it is over. i’m glad that soldiers without legs wont be trolleyed into wards by the dozen and i’m glad that kids in the vanni wont have any more pieces of shrapnel lodged in their bellies. but i’m not proud – not a damn CENT proud – as a sri lankan, to be part of the voting citizenship that made those civilian deaths ‘regrettably necessary’.
and not being proud, i dont see too much to celebrate, although i DO see a lot to be relieved for.
and for all the vested interests that the western bloc had in pushing the war crimes probe – from china’s new presence in the subcontinent to the thought of tamil votes and diaspora money across the US, Europe and Canada – we DID escape from accounting for ourselves. and we did so thanks to a couple of dozen states with FAR worse human rights records than we Sri Lankans ever had.
i know its not a wonderful world or a bed of roses. but that doesnt mean i need to be proud of the fact. There is so much else to be proud of that doesnt require me to fool myself. i’m proud of how our commandos fought in the LRRP missions; i’m proud of how a tiny navy like ours busted arms warehouses as far away as the australian maritime limits. But i’m not proud of killing civilians, nor am i proud of coercing a gang of thieves to help us wriggle out of accounting for it.
And i know that the moment i say that, youre going to throw the ‘let he who is guilty cast the first stone’ baloney at me (and maybe call me an idealistic, uneducated moron again). You will say that the US and the UK better look into Iraq and Afghanistan before meddling with us, and you will also say that the whole point here is that the West thought it could dictate terms to us minnows, and we showed ‘em that they couldnt, goddamn them. And then you will say that the UN is nothing but a cats paw these days.
Thats what you SAY. But this is what you know:
You KNOW that ‘theyre doing it too’ doesnt add up to more than mitigating circumstances when someone’s brought up in court. It may affect the outcome of the trial, but thats once there IS a trial. you KNOW that youve got to HAVE that trial to make that decision.
sure, the US has a shitty HR record. And the Brits carpet bombed Dresden.
But the UN isnt supposed to be about individual countries; its supposed to be about how they work together so that certain human values that sometimes become submerged in the pursuit of a nations goals are upheld by at least someone.
If the UN could not bring the US to charge on human rights violations, thats a sad thing, and it should do better. But that does not in any way mean that they shouldnt be holding any more inquiries! because that means we’ve given up on the system completely. if a VIP in a BMW breaks the speed limit with impunity, but we get fined, that certainly means we’ve got to do something about corruption in the police; it doesnt give everyone the license to speed all they want.
- – -
And much MUCH more importantly, i’m disappointed by what we ‘engineered’ at the UNHRC because we COULD have answered that human rights probe! and there are plenty of things we could have said, regarding both the casualties and the detainment of refugees:
we were fighting terrorists who WERE in essence the civilian population that they held sway over for three decades; because those people had grown up with terrorism. the LTTE werent the Lakshar e Taiba holed up in some frightened tourists hotel room. How can anyone be certain who a civilian is? we have witnessed evidence of suicide bombers blowing themselves up among refugees.
secondly, how is anyone to tell a terrorist from a civilian when the terrorists fight in civilian clothing and not uniform? we have video evidence as well as enough POWs to give evidence for this.
third, with indoctrination and compulsory – and also forced – conscription from a limited civilian population, who then proceed to fight in civilian clothes, how can anyone prove that the injured/dead were actually not terrorist cadre?
fourth, the proof of the pudding: In any war, the counts of dead ought to be far outnumbered by the injured – but WHERE ARE THE INJURED LTTE CADRES?? ever saw any pictures?
i’ll tell you where they are; theyre in government hospitals being treated as civilian casualties! about 80% of the injured are adult males, and their pattern of injuries -mainly bullets and frontal entries – are markedly different from the other 20%. and thats because whenever they get injured the were put back with the civilians and ferried to our side by a gullible ICRC from puttumatalan. if you doubt my word, just ask them.
thats the reason for the bloated UN civilian death and disablement figures. and we could have brought up all of that, argued it out and told the world what happened and what the LTTE tried to do. we could have discredited the extremists of the Tamil Diaspora as well as the skewed reporting of the international press and NGOs. we could have made an example out of how to be open and just in victory.
and at the end of it, we could have looked the US and Britain right in the eye and said: “ok, thats what WE did, here’s the proof, so much for your accusations; dont believe bollocks anymore – and oh, by the way, since you brought israel here, and we came too, NOW why dont YOU account for the simple hell YOUVE been giving people in the name of liberation???”
Instead of hurling insults at the Western hypocrisy, we could have shown them how it’s done.
Instead, we ran away. damn proud!
- – -
the reason we got into this mess was by not being able to see much beyond our noses; by avoiding things that disturbed us and focusing instead on things that made us happy. i hope seeing things as they are and telling them as i see them isnt mistaken for cynicism. I also hope i’m not alone on this one.
- – -
Oh and Dayan, since youre evidently a movie buff from the quotations i see, the next few lines are from a movie called “Philadelphia”. I hope you understand the parallel i’m trying to make. I cant draw you an image of Tom Hanks as a magnificently brave and terminally ill Andrew Beckett being questioned by his lawyer, played by Denzel Washington, but if you HAVE watched the movie, you’ll know.
“All right, um, are you a good lawyer, Andrew?”
“I’m an excellent lawyer.”
“What makes you an excellent lawyer?”
“I love the law. I know the law. I excel at practicing.”
“What do you love about the law, Andrew?”
” I…. Many things. What do I love the most about the law?”
“Yes?”
“It’s that every now and again, not often, but occasionally, you get to be a part of justice being done. That really is quite a thrill when that happens.”
- – -
Yours as always,
In uneducated ignorance,
Mel.
Good point, Mel Gibson. Why not just go on with the HR Probe, instead of running like a sissy? Had the first probe been inconclusive, there would no longer have been a need for future probes. In the final analysis, it comes down to damage control. Abu Grahib was one of the worst debacle for America’s foreign image… yet it allowed a probe. The culprits were booked, the necessary apologies by the necessary VIP’s were made, and administrative changes were implemented. So today, when people speak of Abu Grahib, they may gasp in horror, but they cannot say the USA was indifferent.
The way Sri Lanka is handling its IDP camps, as well as limiting access media access to the former battlefield sites, points to extremely desperate efforts at a cover-up. Obviously, it is succeeding to some extent where damage control is concerned, but at what cost? The alliances it has formed (as evidenced by the UNHCR resolution) are very dangerous ones. Besides, most of the nations are poor and undeveloped, due largely to political corruption and decades of simultaneous civil unrest. Russia derives it strength from being the quintessential remnant of the mighty USSR. I do not know how China has managed to climb the ladder to success. In any case, of all the pariah states that supported Sri Lanka, that only two are successful speaks volumes.
Mr. Jayatilleke,
I have wondered why Sri Lanka was so keen on preventing the human rights probe in Geneva. After all, we have been told, and believed, that this has been a zero civilian casualty policy on the part of the SL Armed forces. We have been told, and believed, that the army was not engaging in aerial bombardments, heavy weaponry usage or indiscriminate shelling. All the images of deaths and injury that showed up on the websites we thought were either direct LTTE cadre or, if civilians, were as a result of LTTE’s prevention of their escape. Allegations of civilian death and injury were dismissed as mere LTTE/diaspora propaganda.
So then what are we afraid of? We dont really have anything to hide do we? Now that the tiger is extinct, maybe we should have taken the human rights bull by the horns and showed them what we Sri Lankans are really made of. Now it really looks like we are trying to desperately cover up war crimes that we did not commit.
– A somewhat confused Sri Lankan.
Mel Gibson, If you think we’re feeling sky high after this war then you’re not in touch with the many. Yes people celebrated, but they weren’t celebrating a victory. They were celebrating relief! All I had was a sense of relief. You’re just trying to generalise other people while feeling empathetic towards your own self righteousness. I never celebrated the victory of this war. I was trembling the night the war finished for reasons I cannot explain. I felt empty at the losses, but slightly glad that justice was served to those who advocated death in the name of freedom making generations miserable. A brutal reply to their own misguided tribal brutality. A taste of their own medicine.
“After a war there are no victors but only survivors.”
You know what THEY’RE DOING IT TOO because that’s the way it works. UN cannot fundamentally work because 90% are guilty as charged. It’s a huge “wasn’t me” club.
The civilised world is a myth – it’s a temporary curtain. I’m not a great intellect. Not even remotely at the level where peace and human rights advocates project the righteous path to the rest of us. Just an ordinary person with a reasonable degree of logical commonsense. One thing though is that I understood the world as it is in my teenage years. It is a big bad, ugly place and that’s how it will always be. Justice is a mere miracle that is so precious and rare. At least that seems to be the case. Darwinism applies to every aspect in this world. From life, politics, economics to most other survival themes. Stronger survives another generation at the expense of the weak while they dissolves into extinction.
What I object to is that when we all play the same dirty games of survival, some trying to white wash themselves with pointing out others short comings. A.k.a hypocrisy. Those Europeans now wearing layers of Human Rights make up are the same effin bastards who gassed Jews not so long ago. Yes Norway that is you too dear! Plus they had a good income selling weapons to LTTE no? And Abu graib was just yesterday. Most of whom were not punished at all and now they want to question Sri Lanka for human rights? When our crime was maybe collateral in a brutal war that was showed down our throat by terrorists?
What the UN members reflected the other day was, general consensus. It was a statement to the west. “Back off buddy, this is our turf! You can play ball on our turf when you let us play on your turf.” Simple as that.
This guy Mel and Confused must be the only ones who thought we ran away at the UNHRC. the rest of the world, including our detractors in the western media thought we turned the tables and won the vote by a wide margin ( see the Times, UK) imposing a crushing defeat on the other side. it is one thing to have a probe when society demands it, it is another to have a bunch of outsiders with hideous human rights records, probe your armed forces a week after the war. Mel gibson may want to bend over for the west and take it like a good lad, but the rest of our country does not, thank God.
mel gibson changes the goalposts. first he implies that the Tigers are exempt from all rational ( admitting your dead leader is indeed dead) and humanitarian norms of conduct because the context is race, and when i countered with the African liberation struggles he changes it to a majority- minority context. if i answer that he’ll shift the goalposts again.
then he wants to know why theTamil problem keeps cropping up. why does he thinks the national question based kashmir insurgency, and those of nagaland, mizoram, assam and manipur, have persisted for 60 years, in a secualr, democratic, quasifederal republic? why does scottish nationalism persist in devolved Britain or Basque and catalan nationalism in Spain with its regional autonomy? only an amateurish autodidact could think it is always a indictment of the state or the majority. sometimes it says something about the minority.
“I have wondered why Sri Lanka was so keen on preventing the human rights probe in Geneva.”
There are probably mass graves within the battlefield sites themselves. If some of these bodies were exhumed and forensic testing carried out, one would also be certain to find traces of chemical weapons used, a claim which the Sri Lankan Government vehemently denied. Also, the mass graves probably contain thousands of bodies of innocent civilians killed in cold-blood which should show that the Sri Lankan Government never paid credence to the notion of a No-Fire Zone.
It is my opinion that the Sri Lankan Government is actively engaged in trying to destroy all such evidence, which is one reason for the prolonged detention of Tamil civilians in IDP camps. I have no doubt that American satellites, among others, could easily detect heavy movement in such areas, with 1 m accuracy. However, Sri Lanka has never been at the top of the US foreign Agenda.
Dear Mel, Dear Observer,
Nice to hear so soon from both of you.
I know it is presumptuous to expect you to actually read what i wrote before taking the trouble to reply. It was quite possibly the fact that i HAD replied, and not the content of my reply, that prompted you to comment. However, thank you for your attention!
The argument you both bring up is similar. I’m sorry that the content of what i wrote above escaped either your attention or intellectual engagement, so please allow me to quote myself:
“And i know that the moment i say that, youre going to throw the ‘let he who is guilty cast the first stone’ baloney at me (and maybe call me an idealistic, uneducated moron again). You will say that the US and the UK better look into Iraq and Afghanistan before meddling with us, and you will also say that the whole point here is that the West thought it could dictate terms to us minnows, and we showed ‘em that they couldnt, goddamn them. And then you will say that the UN is nothing but a cats paw these days.”
What do you know, you DID say all that. and one of you called me an idealist while the other implied that i’m a moron. kudos to your predictability.
In the next few paras of my letter above, ive spelled out why the argument you made doesnt work; and the alternatives that we never explored.
I wish you’d reply to them instead of making this discussion unproductive (think of how un-Sri-Lankan that would be)
And Dayan, since you quote The Times (UK) on our crushing victory, allow me to quote the leading article in todays edition of The Times (also UK).
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/leading_article/article6382706.ece
I think the degree to which our brave stand moved the West towards resolving all of our problems is quite evident.
(Please note: Personally, I consider the content of the ‘Times’ article i quote to be hogwash. Its the kind of exaggerated extrapolation a pessimistic statistician dreams up after watching – well, too many Mel Gibson movies.
And if further evidence of the pettiness and bias of British Journalism is needed, there’s an article dated February 16, 1945 titled “14,000 Tons On Germany” that made the lead in the very same newspaper, written in obvious triumph regarding a recent successful bombing mission.
That triumphantly celebrated bombing was the devastation of Dresden, two weeks before the Axis surrendered. 40,000 civilians were killed, and a lovely baroque city shattered.
The flames of bias are everywhere. Its up to you whether you try to change it by facing it, or fan them further by turning your back on them with bitter epithets and exchanging blame.)
I remain,
In the hope that you will read the above,
Mel.
“The civilised world is a myth – it’s a temporary curtain.”
To be fair, though, your statement must be taken in context. The Americans built Guantanamo Bay in Cuba, because they knew it would become the subject of massive liberal protests were they to build on their home soil, thus spelling the doom of the Republican Party at the recent elections. Also, the interrogation techniques used at Guantanamo are mild compared to those used in such places as Sri Lanka. Guantanamo Bay is a prison, albeit a very expensive one and as of today the plan is to give many inmates a trial or rehabilitate them in maximum-security American federal prisons. This is how the USA treats its most dangerous POWs with one exception. If there is a need for extensive interrogation that may merit torture, that person will basically be outsourced to a place like Pakistan or the Middle East, where local authorities will do the job. It will not be done on American soil.
Now you see the difference between the above and places like Sri Lanka/China. There is no sort of humanity for those who surrender. There is not even a database… they simply disappear. More likely than not, they are tortured and killed, end of story. Of course, in the long-run, it is cheaper to just kill all the POWs and dump the bodies somewhere, rather than subject them to any legal process… but what this shows is the values embodied by such a country. We see that such nations care very little for human life. We see the peak of Government corruption as those who do its bidding, regardless of their human rights record, are given promotions , even made ambassadors (Janaka Perera, for example). But I think the worst insult comes from within. When the inefficiency and corruption become the butt of local jokes, it is an indication even the local people understand the failure of such institutions to address their grievances. Thus are born organizations like the Sandanistas, LTTE, KLA, etc.
Mel, I read you alright Mel, I read you alright… but I wrote that anyway because it still counts. Counts a god damn lot.
“You know what THEY’RE DOING IT TOO because that’s the way it works.”
The text in CAPS were quoted, directly from the paragraph to follow that you claimed i ignored. Anyways whatevs…
Simple point is sane people don’t stay in abusive relationships. Nor will they stand up to it. Sri Lanka does not need to agree to probes that are unwarranted in order to take US to task. So that gives you the simple logic why Sri Lanka should leave UN rather and not set examples in vein. How naive are you Mel? You’re soo innocent that it’s cute!
Seriously my friend, did you think US or other super powers would ever let their cats out? When they’re struggling to contain the few ugly cats that have jumped out? Pleaseee.. Let those who preach practice first and set an example! Not the other way around. I won’t stress this point anymore…I’m sure you’re sick of it by now and pulling ur hair.
All I want to say is that there are necessary evils lurking round us. Of course you can’t justify any form of evil. But the universe is fundamentally a reactionary and counter reactionary balance of forces. There’s mater and anti-matter just like how there is good and evil. If it was all good that prevailed in the universe, then the universe would seize to exist all together.
Yes disgusting nuclear weapons that dissolved millions into vaporised flesh are the same horrors that is keeping the world at peace until the next great horror is unleashed. They are our guradian angles, for now – not the non existent gods that we dream about. You catch my drift?
Anyway it is only natural when faced with adversary that, we naturally resort to one of our primal instincts. No not LOVE of course, One of which being our boundless capability to create hellish realms on this earth. “When the devil knocks on your door, you let them into a hell of your own.” Those who are unfamiliar… 101 in school of national security! Where the patriots breed. Why?? That it will be so unbearable and it will drive the enemies away.
In the Vietnamese war, vietcong succeeded in creating the better hell.
In World war 2, Allies succeeded – the A bomb.
In Eelam war, ultimately GOSL succeeded.
So throughout history and into the far far future, that is how wars will be “won”.
These hellish realms were created by all parties at war, whether it be the Israels, Palestinians, Russians, Chechneyans, Americans, and every one else who ever waged and defended in war. Don;t you understand we can’t draw a human rights line in the middle of war? Human Rights are so pure that those who advocate that there are human rights lines in ugly war are the moral pigmies in my view that distorts something so fundamental. Killing for any cause shall not be acceptable regardless how they’re killed. That is where my morality tells me to stop. When I cross that line…… don’t hold me back.
So do not utter the words of human rights as you know they do not exist contrary to popular belief in war. As it is wars that have ensured you to stand here to be as well. WE ARE THE SURVIVORS. Fundamentally we all can’t be free. True physical freedom gives you ability to do anything and everything. Including murdering thy neighbor and walk free. True freedom will create more chaos than you can comprehend. So be careful what you wish for. Therefore aim for the freedom in your mind, which is far triumphant. Uncivilised people pretend to be civilised only because they’re held by leaches called laws. They very same nooses that we try to enforce in war through HR laws. What naeivity.
When ever I see despicable violence I try to understand causes behind them. And I understand very well morality of war is far beyond and sophisticated than weak morality of human rights activists. They see black and white only. While the lesser “moral pigmies” see the full spectrum of morality in HI-DEF colour. Like those of Michael Roberts and my self who align on similar wavelengths.
I believe we averted a huge loss of life by decimating the LTTE. Means by which shall be debated till the cows come home. We did what we had to do and what was coming as the fate of a greater evil. Only lesson we can take out of it is that “if only we stuck to peace at the cost of losing life and limb as opposed to war..” Sigh!
Dear Heshan, Please read about US rendition practices before whitewashing them. believe me there is a lot of unaccounted blood there and in closets of the CIA – these things don;t even go in their highly classified files! China is much better in the sense they limit their atrocities within and around their boundaries at least. Yes I said IT!! Alas.. civilised world is a myth! No heshan?
Heshan, is out sourcing torture to someone else and paying them make it right?? wow! ………
I think that is worse than torturing your self..
”
believe me there is a lot of unaccounted blood there and in closets of the CIA – ”
”
Based on what – your extraordinary insider knowledge of the CIA?
“these things don;t even go in their highly classified files!”
Which only proves that you are talking out of your ass.
“China is much better in the sense they limit their atrocities within and around their boundaries at least.”
You mean like maintaining internment camps within its borders for political prisoners? You mean invading Tibet???
“Yes I said IT!! Alas.. civilised world is a myth! No heshan?”
Yes, the world is a civilized place. If you people in Sri Lanka could live overseas over a year or two, you might understand that a Government can actually function by carrying out its stipulating functions and not stifling the opposition and media.
“Heshan, is out sourcing torture to someone else and paying them make it right?? wow! ………
I think that is worse than torturing your self..”
Torture is a relative definition. In the Middle East (including Israel), China, and Pakistan, torture is an accepted practice. In Saudi Arabia, for example, one can witness public beheadings. It is a common part of Middle Eastern law to cut off the hands of thieves. Such as practices as these would be considered forms of “cruel and unusual punishment” in the West. But NOT in the Middle East where the LAW says its okay. Torture is also an accepted practice in Sri Lanka, although the Sri Lankan Government denies it. The DENIAL part is what I don’t like. GOSL and its assorted coterrie of diplomats, such as Dayan Jayatillake, need to stop portraying Sri Lanka as some kind of extraordinary utopia where everyone gets a fair deal. If they can admit that kidnappings, extrajudicial murders, torture, and rape are not violations of Sri Lankan law, then we can at least give them credit for being “honest” although such practices can never be justified.
No heshan it was based on witness testimony I have heard from people who were lucky enough to be freed after being tortured and badtardised by US. I don’t need acces to cia files. Do some research there is a lot of evidence. If wasn’t on a mobile device I’d post some links. Maybe later.
My problem is dear I have been to too many places and seen too much.
As for ur justification of rendition let’s just agree to disagree.
Our points of views are different.
Dear Dayan:
It is a breath of fresh air to see someone like you speak up for Sri Lanka — finally! Please continue to do what you are doing. My congratulations on your recent victory against the hypocrites of the west.
There are far too many very eloquent people who speak and write on behalf of terrorist Tigers all over the world. The sad truth is that there are many more very vocal educated tamils than educated sinhalese living outside Sri Lanka. I live in a western US state and have seen the sad inability of the sinhalese diaspora to get organized, seek support from elected US leaders etc, for the just war that was fought by the SL govt, meanwhile the tamil diaspora always wins the day. Most sinhalese disapora (educated too) seem very shallow and reluctant to get organized for any cause other than a musical show, cricket match or a party. However, there are a few of us who are willing to be part of a larger global awareness campaign to help Sri Lanka. The Sri Lankan embassies do not help much either as most political appointees are simpletons who have not mastered the language.
Since the tamil diaspora are likely to continue this remote controlled war, the Sri Lankan govt should initiate an immediate effort to mobilize all Sri Lankans living abroad, who desire peace in Sri Lanka. This should be open to everyone regardless of race ethnicity language religion etc. I think this effort should be led by someone credible like yourself – not a political appointee as most of us cannot stand them. This could be a web-based forum where people like myself could access useful information that I could forward to my senators and legislators when topics related to Sri Lanka come up for discussion in our respective countries. We could start an international awareness campaign with effective bumper stickers on all our cars. We could distribute material at our work places. The messages we can help you get out in our communities, in a timely manner, could be directed by you as you fight the international terror campaign against Sri Lanka, support by various countries and actors. If something like this is already existing, please let us know about it. Please keep Sri Lankan political actors out of this effort. Governments and leaders may come and go but our motherland must live on and have a chance to fight this cancer to create a better Sri Lankan in the future!
“No heshan it was based on witness testimony I have heard from people who were lucky enough to be freed after being tortured and badtardised by US.”
Hahaha…. I live in the USA…. I can say that the media here hated Bush with a passion. There was grudging support for his “War on Terror” after 9-11, but this evaporated quicker than liquid nitrogen at room temperature. IF these horror stories you talk about had any merit (I have read one or two of them myself, and 99.9% of the culprits are not American), the media would have used them to pounce on Bush. I’ve already mentioned how the interrogation techniques at Guantanamo Bay are trivial in comparison to those used in such places as Sri Lanka. No one at Guantanamo Bay is hung upside down with their testicles squeezed. Those at Guantanamo Bay are also allowed to COMMUNICATE with their families back home. Those at Guantanamo Bay were allowed to petition the SUPREME COURT for their release.
So if you want to make up stories about the USA to bad-mouth it, you need to be more specific! I will be happy to pass the info on to CNN, which will do its own investigations. If those investigations amount to anything, you will see some VIP’s quickly offering their resignations. That, my friend, is the true meaning of a democracy. There are those who try to HIDE things, but there are those who LIVE to uncover and expose the culprits!
“Most sinhalese disapora (educated too) seem very shallow and reluctant to get organized for any cause other than a musical show, cricket match or a party.”
I actually agree with one of your statements for a change. Most of the second-generation Sinhalese kids here can’t speak two words of Sinhalese (which is fine by me, since there are enough Sinhalese in Sri Lanka to keep the language alive).
On the other hand, I don’t see any reason for these expats to suddenly get involved in Sri Lankan politics. Sri Lankan politics is a dirty business, as we all know. The corruption and inefficiency are laughing jokes among overseas Sinhalese at our parties. This is the way it should remain. Unless we can induce some kind of radical change (like an anarchy) and bring in a totally new leadership (one not involving an excess number Bandaranaike or Rajapakses) there is very little we can do to cause some positive significant change. After all, it’s no secret what happened to the tsunami $$$ donations… I wouldn’t be surprised if supreme intellectual racist himself, Dayan J, took a ski trip or two).
If you really want to do something, I would say sponsor a child. But do it through a Christian organization or foreign NGO. When the political scenery changes a bit, the Sinhalese diaspora can get involved.
Heshan sounds like a Tiger in a camouflage. A Tiger who seems to have shamelessly adopted a sinhala name OR a sinhala Tiger indeed. He would like ONLY Tigers to distribute their version of the Sri Lanka history. What do you call Tamils carrying placards stopping traffic on expressways in Canada? Is that not making political statememts?
I would not trust any INGO or NGO after what many of them did to Sri Lanka for years. So called Christian groups too were in the same game.
Sri Lankan President just announced that all sinhala students must learn tamil and tamil students must learn sinhala for future O Levels. That is a very smart step and will lead to long-term peace in the country.
Heshan claims to be living in the US, but he seems totally clueless about extraordinary rendition – a new creation by the Bush gang that I am sure many nations will utilize in future conflicts.
I think this last discussion between two well-intentioned Sri Lankan expats is extremely revealing – for the lack of grounding in local realities. As a well-travelled person with a Sri Lankan passport and having lived in SL through most of the 25 years of war (not knowing among other things whether my children will come back home safely from school when I sent them out in the morning), I think your priorties are a bit off, to say the least. My work has taken me to villages all over the country (including the formerly LTTE-held areas) – these people (Sinhala, Tamil and Muslim) are not evil and deserve better from their leaders than they have got so far and some of them have been persuaded to believe.
The priority right now is that there are over a half a million people displaced (the recent 280,000 plus from previous displacements). Counting how many were killed, lamenting about the corruption of the government (after all, which government was not corrupt, includling that of the LTTE) or organizing the expat community for peace right now is not going to bring the dead back. On the other hand, those who are alive need food, medicine, shelter until they go back to their villages, as fast as possible (i.e. at the least their villages need to be demined). So if anyone actually cares about suffering and wants to help that’s where help should go – through channels that are most likely to reach them.
The process of taking care of these displaced people is being undermined by the lack of trust created by the North American and European charade of human rights violations and war crimes. We all know how many of those they have committed themselves – I think we can simply stop wasting our time on who’s using the worst methods of torture; call a spade a spade, torture is torture and any person or government who uses it is eventually anwerable to their conscience or citizens, if not to anyone else – Mel is absolutely right there. These governments and human rights organizations should by now have realized that they are not pursuing a very productive strategy with a recalcitrant regime. Ironically those lofty governments and organizations have set themselves on a collision course to deny the very human rights – of food, medicine and shelter – to half a million suffering people by being focused primarily on political rights. They seem to be unaware that they’ve got their timing hopelessly wrong – it it’s war-affected Tamil people they are concerned about.
Dayan Jayatilleke has done an extremely competent, professional and thankless job by keeping these misguided governments and organizations at bay. They are not doing this out of a love for the Tamil people and their concerns or human rights at all but for their own narrow political and ideological interests. He has also shown the importance of geopolitics and Sri Lanka’s place in a new global order – some of us might not like it but it is better to stay engaged with the emerging power structures than reject them as the “West” is doing – to its own detriment. And if there is going to be another vote in the General Assembly, I am confident that he can get the majority of countries to support the Sri Lankan government stance. In fact, he is much more competent than the blundering British foreign minister, David Miliband. After all the tragic effects of the Sinhala-only policies, this government can count itself extremely lucky that they have diplomats of the calibre of Dayan Jayatilleke. Just because he is doing his job for a government which might or might not have committed war crimes (still needs to be proven what consitutes war crimes for both sides, as Mel has pointed out; we do know that the government has not not sent people to the gas chambers), Dayan Jayatilleke does not need to be subjected to the labeling that seems prevalent in part of this thread.
Once those displaced people are fed, treated for injuries and recovered, they will be in a much better position to testify in any war crimes investigations. And here I agree with Mel. Just because Sri Lanka has won the resolution in the HRC does not mean justice has been done. War crimes come to haunt individuals and nations, as some of those lofty nations have found out much to their chagrin. However, nations are not judged in the long run by the war crimes they have committed (look at Germany, Japan, Italy, US) – Sri Lanka will be judged by what it does for the well-being of its 20 million people who are currently alive and how it will take its place in the community of nations. I am less confident of this government’s ability to accomplish the former than the latter. It would be good if everyone does something to minimize human suffering in Sri Lanka (and in the diaspora) right now – but given a lot of people’s political agendas that is probably too much to expect. If all those concerned can at least deliver on that, then we can start talking about equality, peace and reconciliation.
P.S. Pragmatist, forget about the bumper stickers. It doesn’t make any sense that second generation children (who don’t even speak Sinhalese) get hurt by extremists because their parents were foolhardy. Whatever you choose to do, please pay attention to timing and ground realities.
Sorry Heshan, I ain’t done any ski trips. Just a Dylan concert in Geneva, and that too on my pay which is not the highest basic or takehome pay even in my own Mission.
Dear Citizen, you are so right about me possessing “no education beyond those boyhood years”. Pity, that, because if I had the privilege of being educated beyond childhood I might have done far better than having Sebastian Balfour, Professor Emeritus at the LSE, favourably review my book in a scholarly journal.
Heshan must be the only guy who thinks that China, Russia, Cuba, Nicaragua and Bolivia are ….”sissies”. They co-sponsored the resolution which upheld Sri lanka’s sovereignty and rejected an externally imposed probe.
And Heshan and Mel, it isn’t just the Times London, but a universal conclusion if not universally applauded. Merely to give two other examples, the AFP says “Sri Lanka celebrated a major diplomatic victory Thursday…” while Radio Australia/Australian Broadcasting Corporation says “ Sri Lanka had a diplomatic victory this week”.
So much for running away like sissies…
Heshan, let me start with a big LOL. Is the fact that u live in the US supposed to enhance ur knowledge on secret interrogation practices? I doubt it because ur just an ordinary citizen with level 0 clearance. Let’s cut to the chase. We’re both speculating based on the public information we both have or come across.
Just to correct things all media did not hate Bush. I don’t live in US (nor do I need to flaunt where I live) but I know there are media there backing for both political juggernauts. For instance you have Murdoch’s Fox news network backing for liberals like Bush while the likes of MSNBC pulling for democrats.
While we’re on the topic of media, this is a documentary from PBS (generally viewed as a non partisan media outlet) in US interviewing some “enemy combatants” (famed POWs who live in a legal limbo) of the US explaining their experience with the polite and hospitable CIA agents. Have a look to hear how good CIA espresso is.
http://www.pbs.org/frontlineworld/stories/rendition701/video/video_index.html
http://bit.ly/K7ng0
There are heaps more testimonies out there if you know where to look.
Only difference between US and SL is that they use unmarked Learjet’s while Sri Lanka use Nissan Sunny Vans to take away enemies of the state. No matter what the country or the spy agency, be the CIA, MI6, RAW, CID, etc., if you have someone in custody that has information about an imminent threat, I believe authorities will not hesitate to connect two high voltage anodes/cathodes to your testicles until you get that information. There are many more… water boarding is kids stuff!
Anyway I see that you’re a very patriotic son of the US of A and I don’t want to burst that bubble. Continue to believe that US plays nice all the time because they’re just sooo not naughty! We can argue back and forth forever. Let’s just agree to disagree on this too. Keep those stripes flying high
Red stripes are for blood……. Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, Germany, Hiroshima, Nagasaki, Pakistan, and the list goes on……. Peace!
Ur gonna pass it on to CNN? hahah is Mr. Anderson Cooper going to do an investigative piece on that? Who is being paid by Time Warner. Do you know who’s behind time warner? The biggest stake holders and their affiliations? Do you know if the CEO of Time Warner will let CNN run something if it will affect their share holders. Seriously…
It;s like asking Haliburton to investigate WMDs in Iraq. lol
Dear Migara,
Devolution, not federalism: fully implement the 13th amendment, though perhaps in phases. Top it up with any enhancements which can be implemented without the risk of a referendum. In short, stick to the Indo-Lanka and UN SecyGen-GOSL communiques with their commitment to implement the 13th Amendment. The winning UN HRC resolution reiterates this.
My reasons for persistently posting on this thread has been. How dare UK US EU point fingers at Sri Lanka?
United States of America
——————–
Decimated native Indians. We can easily classify it as a mass genocide.
Then brought slaves over from Africa and treated them like dogs.
When they fought for civil rights, they dressed in white robes and burnt them alive.
Although it’s much better now, still they’re discriminated against and have numerous social problems. Violence, drug abuse, etc.
UK – The worst one. Sailed all over the world and created chaos everywhere. Permanently effed up countries like Sri Lanka. If I start listing it will be endless. Just ask her majesty!
EU – Chased all the Jews away or gassed the few who couldn’t get away while bending over back for Hittler.
Now they all run amok in the name of terrorism. Ruining the Arab region.
What was Sri Lanka’s crime?
Yes we had discrimination against Tamils. Some died at the hands of the government and militias. But we never treated them as bad as any of the above countries did to any of their minorities or countries they invaded.
We eliminated a terrorist outfit who was well armed by the above. EU really!
And committing atrocities in Sri Lanka against unarmed people.
Now they wanna probe Sri Lanka for human rights? It makes my blood boil I’m sorry! They can probe each other instead inside any form of cavities they fancy in each other!!
I am well aware of the ground realities and the imminent need for looking after the poor Tamil civilians who have just about had enough. But not before unleashing few of my thoughts here!
Dear Humanist:
I agree that we must all do our part to help the victims of this tragic conflict now interned in IDP camps. The sooner they can be settled in their homes the better. However, we must be mindful that the external forces that supported terror in SL are very likely to attempt to revive this profitable business. I am convinced that an organized awareness campaign in western cities will help counter this – even in a small way. If you think that proTiger diapora have stopped or reduced their efforts at spreading false stories you are dreaming. Just look at what comes out of western media – it never seems to end. Probably so because these propaganda activities have become the way of life and income generating jobs for some of the people involved. Unless those of us who desire peace in SL help counter this, the cancer is very likely to grow back. Addressing both short-term needs and a longer-term strategy is needed at this time. It is my observation that the inability of people of SL, in general, to address longer term consequences is what has landed the nation in this awful mess. This is clearly evidenced by the misguided mindset of many well educated and responsible Sri Lankans, like Humanist, that I constantly come across. If I understand him correctly, he wants us to focus on just collecting and send some money/medicines etc to help the IDPs but keep mum about the on-going false Tiger propaganda in our communities for fear of Tiger attacks on our families – like the attack in Sydney. Just think of the thousands of brave soldiers who laid down their lives to eradicate this cancer. How risky is speaking on behalf of the truth in places where that is fully protected by law? I suppose what I have suggested is not for extreme cowards — like those who just stuck to playing tennis ball cricket.
<>
Ahhh… Mr. “Humanist” reveals his true colors. As I have said many times, if the NGO’s and INGO’s are pro-LTTE, then kick them out of Sri Lanka completely. Of course, if you decide to allow them to say, then they are going to report some of what they see. That is called being “human”. Foreign journalists will pick up on it and construct their own analysis (they are paid to do this, believe it or not). It has nothing to do with being pro-LTTE.
But let’s face it… you can’t kick them out of Sri Lanka, because they are the ones who do the dirty work (e.g. serve as mediators, provide aid to those in the conflict zone, engage in development work)…. if you were to kick them out, there would be a major humanitarian crisis. What this shows is that despite all the victory cries, war drums, conspiracy theories, and diplomatic “victories”, Sri Lanka is still HIGHLY dependent on the West, and not the East, for basic essential humanitarian services. Case in point: what has your pal China contributed to the IDP relief effort so far other than some tents?
“The process of taking care of these displaced people is being undermined by the lack of trust created by the North American and European charade of human rights violations and war crimes.”
Ahhh… Mr. “Humanist” reveals his true colors. As I have said many times, if the NGO’s and INGO’s are pro-LTTE, then kick them out of Sri Lanka completely. Of course, if you decide to allow them to say, then they are going to report some of what they see. That is called being “human”. Foreign journalists will pick up on it and construct their own analysis (they are paid to do this, believe it or not). It has nothing to do with being pro-LTTE.
But let’s face it… you can’t kick them out of Sri Lanka, because they are the ones who do the dirty work (e.g. serve as mediators, provide aid to those in the conflict zone, engage in development work)…. if you were to kick them out, there would be a major humanitarian crisis. What this shows is that despite all the victory cries, war drums, conspiracy theories, and diplomatic “victories”, Sri Lanka is still HIGHLY dependent on the West, and not the East, for basic essential humanitarian services. Case in point: what has your pal China contributed to the IDP relief effort so far other than some tents?
“Decimated native Indians. We can easily classify it as a mass genocide.
Then brought slaves over from Africa and treated them like dogs.
When they fought for civil rights, they dressed in white robes and burnt them alive.
Although it’s much better now”
Are you implying that In the history of the world, only the United States practiced slavery? What about Ancient Greece/Rome/Egypt/China… what about such peoples as the Assyrians, Babylonians, Hebrews, etc. ? Why not apply your logic to each of these civilizations and conclude that slavery was a “mass genocide?” By the way, slavery in the United States lasted less than 300 years… whereas it lasted well over a 1000 years in many of these ancient civilizations.
“UK – The worst one. Sailed all over the world and created chaos everywhere. Permanently effed up countries like Sri Lanka. If I start listing it will be endless. Just ask her majesty!”
Well, I will agree with this one. The Middle East crisis, Sri Lanka, the AIDS crisis in Africa, even the Kashmiri conflict in India… there is a definitely some connection to the British. But we cannot forget their accomplishments, which, dare I say, far outweigh the meager accomplishments of 60 yrs of Sinhala-Buddhist nationalism: introduction of tea ($1 billion USD annual revenue for Sri Lanka), laying a solid foundation for healthcare, education, even the structure of the military… what the present Government is doing now – hiring foreigners to build a coal-powered plant and a port in Hambantota – these are tasks for which the British would have utilized local labor. My point is that Sri Lanka has not exactly become self-sufficient after the departure of the British, although that in itself is due at least partially to the failure to devolve power (on the part of the British) at the onset of Independence itself.
“EU – Chased all the Jews away or gassed the few who couldn’t get away while bending over back for Hittler.”
Actually they carved a line in the British occupied territory of Palestine, thus rendering more than a Palestinians homeless overnight and paving the way for a Jewish state. By the way, anti-semitism did not begin with Hitler. Your pal Russia has a rich history. You also forget to mention the numerous and varied accomplishments of your other major supporter, Japan, during WWII: Rape of Nanking, rape camps in Korea/China/Phillipines, biological experiments using live human subjects, intentional use of chemical weapons on Chinese civilians, illegal invasion and occupation of numerous Asian countries, attack on Pearl Harbor, extreme mistreatment of POWS, etc. Did I leave out the best part… they were allies of the Nazis! As for your earlier comments that millions of them were vaporized thanks to atomic bombs, the figure is less than 250,000. Also, you forget the history of the A-bomb… some of the best scientists from all over the world were involved in its construction: Einstein, Fermi, Oppenheimer, Feynman… while the decision to use the A-bomb was ultimately an American one, its creation would not have materialized without the cooperation of scientists from all over. Also the decision to use the A-bomb was based on the fact that your Japanese pals were unwilling to surrender voluntarily, were mobilizing the civilian population for a full-scale war, and a full-scale land invasion would have cost more than a million lives (just on the Japanese end).
“What was Sri Lanka’s crime?”
When you have 200,000 people packed into a densely populated area that constitutes a major portion of a battlezone, its not a good idea to claim you have a zero-casualty policy. When the battle has dragged on for weeks and months, its not a good idea to then persist with the claim that there have been zero civilian casualties. When the battle has ended, you need not yet again repeat that there have been zero civilian casualties (we knew you were lying from the beginning) Surely you can figure out the rest. As for the IDP camps… they are funded by Westerners… hence, the Westerners should have full access.
“Yes we had discrimination against Tamils. Some died at the hands of the government and militias. But we never treated them as bad as any of the above countries did to any of their minorities or countries they invaded.”
Well you are displaying your post-colonial hangover syndrome, which seems to be quite common among Southern Sinhalese. The West is not as bad as you perceive it to be. A lot has changed since your grandfather, in his loin cloth, climbed coconut trees or pushed the “pale gentlemen” along in the tri-shaw. If Sri Lanka is poor today, that is the fault of Sri Lanka, not the British. I would say your heroes SWRD and JR did far more damage than any colonial administration.
“I am well aware of the ground realities and the imminent need for looking after the poor Tamil civilians who have just about had enough.”
Unfortunately, you and most of your racist komraden here cannot grasp the fact that these Tamil civilians were doing just fine before MR launched his nonsense war. Most of them also have no need to be in these silly camps, which only serve as a form of collective punishment.
“. For instance you have Murdoch’s Fox news network backing for liberals like Bush while the likes of MSNBC pulling for democrats.”
You have it backwards there. FOX news is probably the only major television syndicate which backed Bush and continues vouching for the Republicans… it is about as liberal as an arranged marriage.
” We’re both speculating based on the public information we both have or come across.”
I need not speculate having lived here more than a decade. The people here are lawsuit-happy… they will sue for just about anything (even a cup of coffee). Neglecting the ludicrous outcomes which are possible, this does make those holding administrative positions be somewhat more “environmentally” sensitive, whether we are talking the military or a Fortune 500 company.
“Just to correct things all media did not hate Bush.”
Actually they did.
”
While we’re on the topic of media, this is a documentary from PBS (generally viewed as a non partisan media outlet) in US interviewing some “enemy combatants” (famed POWs who live in a legal limbo) of the US explaining their experience with the polite and hospitable CIA agents. Have a look to hear how good CIA espresso is.”
Sorry, I don’t see the substance in any of that.
“Only difference between US and SL is that they use unmarked Learjet’s while Sri Lanka use Nissan Sunny Vans to take away enemies of the state. No matter what the country or the spy agency, be the CIA, MI6, RAW, CID, etc., if you have someone in custody that has information about an imminent threat,”
If they wanted to torture the person in the USA, they need not put him on a Lear Jet and send him to Dubai or Pakistan. As I said, if there are legal provisions for torture, that is a different story… what I don’t approve of is when the relevant mechanisms exist, but the competent authorities persist in their denials that torture/inhumane punishment is the norm.
“And Heshan and Mel, it isn’t just the Times London, but a universal conclusion if not universally applauded. Merely to give two other examples, the AFP says “Sri Lanka celebrated a major diplomatic victory Thursday…” while Radio Australia/Australian Broadcasting Corporation says “ Sri Lanka had a diplomatic victory this week”.”
I fail to see how it was a victory when part of the statement stipulated that Sri Lanka should continue receiving aid. The majority of aid comes from those who voted against. Meanwhile, I also hear there is a major delay in the IMF loan. So you may have won a victory, where semantics is concerned, albeit a rather hollow one.
Sorry I didn’t mean to say Liberals rather meant the Republicans regarding the FOX news network. It should have implied anyway when I associated Bush with FOX. Still I stand corrected.
“Also the decision to use the A-bomb was based on the fact that your Japanese pals were unwilling to surrender voluntarily, were mobilizing the civilian population for a full-scale war, and a full-scale land invasion would have cost more than a million lives (just on the Japanese end).”
Didn’t you kind of walk into the point I was trying to make here? Do you see the parallel here with the Sri Lankan offensive? EXCEPT Sri Lanka did not annihilate an entire population in the process unlike the “civlised” countries that made up the allied forces did. So Sri Lanka using artillery wasn’t justified then with some collateral?? Only used as counter measures when the SLA was receiving heavy artillery fire from the other side?
As for the IDP camps, it is a temporary measure that will last till end of the year most likely. You and I both know they won’t be there indefinitely. I’m not sure if you have been following the developments. Sri Lanka has been cautiously easing restrictions on the camps as the screening process is accelerating. There is considerable outside access to the camps now. You’d know this if you weren’t so far away from the misery.
MR launched the campaign because LTTE left no other options. Sri Lankans didn’t want to live in limbo anymore. Sri Lanka has all the right to take that action just as the United States or United Kingdom would in a domestic law and order matter.
Let me clarify something. I am not defending any of the countries that supported Sri Lanka in the UN resolution. I am well aware of shortcomings of all those countries. My reasoning is that all these countries including the west are no better than their counterparts. They all care about one thing. Their domination and influence in the world and their respective regions. At least in Japan’s defense it became a pacifist state after the war. I think a country like that can sit in the UN with its head high.
You try to make the Western nations look like saints because you think they’re more civilised than the rest. I digress. I see through their curtains. They just have a high enough GDP to keep people like yourself pre occupied with the best in consumerism and 24 hour cable television. So it feels like you’re in a much much better place in the world. I just wanted to point out their atrocities to show that they’re none the better. You’re free to believe in your views and I doubt my reasoning will change that. So I shall stop here.
About the last comment you made about the IMF loan.. LOL do you know who owns majority of US bonds right now? Have a guess! Yes Obama personally had to call China and tell them not to worry about their investments just to keep the money flowing in. Sif we’re worried about IMF loans. China has guaranteed funds to Sri Lanka should the IMF loan fail. Delay it, flaunt it, who cares… Yens convert to Rupees too.. not just Dollars lol
Peace out friend, it was an interesting conversation.
Ahh and something for the movie buffs…
From the movie Easy Rider 1969….
George Hanson: You know, this used to be a helluva good country. I can’t understand what’s gone wrong with it.
Billy: Man, everybody got chicken, that’s what happened. Hey, we can’t even get into like, a second-rate hotel, I mean, a second-rate motel, you dig? They think we’re gonna cut their throat or somethin’. They’re scared, man.
George Hanson: They’re not scared of you. They’re scared of what you represent to ‘em.
Billy: Hey, man. All we represent to them, man, is somebody who needs a haircut.
George Hanson: Oh, no. What you represent to them is freedom.
Billy: What the hell is wrong with freedom? That’s what it’s all about.
George Hanson: Oh, yeah, that’s right. That’s what’s it’s all about, all right. But talkin’ about it and bein’ it, that’s two different things. I mean, it’s real hard to be free when you are bought and sold in the marketplace. Of course, don’t ever tell anybody that they’re not free, ’cause then they’re gonna get real busy killin’ and maimin’ to prove to you that they are. Oh, yeah, they’re gonna talk to you, and talk to you, and talk to you about individual freedom. But they see a free individual, it’s gonna scare ‘em.
Billy: Well, it don’t make ‘em runnin’ scared.
George Hanson: No, it makes ‘em dangerous. Buh, neh! Neh! Neh! Neh! Swamp!
IT MAKES EM DANGEROUS!
Observer,
Saw the movie when it came out, loved it, and I think this is the campfire scene which introduces Jack Nicholson as a lawyer. However, it is also irrelevant. That movie had as its historical context a meaningless, doomed war a continent away, in Vietnam, fought by a conscript army. This dialogue would have made no sense in a movie about the US Civil war fought against the secessionism of the confederate states. So, a little learning, even about movies, can be misleading, as can be flattering self images. You guys don’t stand for freedom of any sort, and a literary parallel would be the characters in a Sartre novel who do not want to fight for their country against fascism, or worse, who support the Vichy collaborationist regime.
“Do you see the parallel here with the Sri Lankan offensive?”
There is no parallel with the Sri Lankan offensive… what a stupid idea to even suggest the possibility. The Japanese had a full-scale conventional army, airforce, and navy; they would have fought to the death from every possible angle. They would have fought for YEARS if necessary. The LTTE was confined to a tiny jungle & beachfront strip that could easily be monitored through advanced satellite imagery.
” EXCEPT Sri Lanka did not annihilate an entire population in the process unlike the “civlised” countries that made up the allied forces did.”
And the Axis nations did not? The Axis nations did far worse. What about the Battle of Britain? Your friend Russia mass raped 90,000 German women at the end of WWII. Your friend Japan did even worse at Nanking.
“So Sri Lanka using artillery wasn’t justified then with some collateral??”
The Sri Lankan Government did not admit to any civilian casualties.
“Only used as counter measures when the SLA was receiving heavy artillery fire from the other side?”
Again, your point is moot… the Sri Lankan Government claims all civilian casualties were from LTTE fire. This is why many people are demanding an investigation.
“As for the IDP camps, it is a temporary measure that will last till end of the year most likely.”
That is not the official version of the Sri Lankan Government which claims the camps will last from 3-5 years.
“There is considerable outside access to the camps now. You’d know this if you weren’t so far away from the misery.”
If there was such access, the foreign press would not be giving Sri Lanka such a bad name. I have yet to see one of these IDP’s speak freely on camera.
“MR launched the campaign because LTTE left no other options. Sri Lankans didn’t want to live in limbo anymore.”
The Ranil Wickremasinghe approach would have achieved a far superior result.
“Let me clarify something. I am not defending any of the countries that supported Sri Lanka in the UN resolution. I am well aware of shortcomings of all those countries. My reasoning is that all these countries including the west are no better than their counterparts.”
Again, I’ve asked you to give specific examples… all you can come up with are events that occured 250 years ago, such as American slavery.
“They all care about one thing. Their domination and influence in the world and their respective regions. At least in Japan’s defense it became a pacifist state after the war. I think a country like that can sit in the UN with its head high.”
Well, they are also the one’s doling out the aid money… in your case, since you believe suppression of Tamils is more important than self-sufficiency, I wouldn’t bite the (Western) hand that feeds.
“You try to make the Western nations look like saints because you think they’re more civilised than the rest.”
Actually they are. That is the truth, however much you look at it. There are some exceptions, such as South Korea, Singapore, Japan… but for the large part, the populations of most of these Third-World nations suffer from a rampant feudal mentality syndrome. Look at how people in Southern Sri Lanka place so much faith in a single man, Rajapakse, when he has made a mockery of virtually institution sacred to democracy.
“I digress. I see through their curtains. They just have a high enough GDP to keep people like yourself pre occupied with the best in consumerism and 24 hour cable television.”
I don’t own a TV. Most people here are middle-class. What is your point about consumerism… do you want people to live on handouts from the Red Cross?
“So it feels like you’re in a much much better place in the world. I just wanted to point out their atrocities to show that they’re none the better.”
At least they admit to their atrocities.
“About the last comment you made about the IMF loan.. LOL do you know who owns majority of US bonds right now? Have a guess! Yes Obama personally had to call China and tell them not to worry about their investments just to keep the money flowing in. Sif we’re worried about IMF loans. China has guaranteed funds to Sri Lanka should the IMF loan fail. Delay it, flaunt it, who cares… Yens convert to Rupees too.. not just Dollars lol”
If you think China will use its bond power to compel the USA to give Sri Lanka the IMF loan, that is the height of all stupidity. The IMF loan is not the prerogative of a single nation; there are many other nations involved. The process involves intense scrutiny; mere semantics, such as occurred in Geneva, will not come close to “saving the day.”
Heshan.
I would agree that Western societies are more enlightened than ours. But only AT THIS MOMENT IN TIME. I don’t think you have to go back too far to a period when this could be considered highly debatable.
The West is largely peaceful and free today only because it has finally put its various ethnic, racial, religious, ideological and nationalist disputes to rest. But it did so in the most horrendous ways imaginable.
The process consumed countless millions of lives and destroyed whole cultures all over the world. This is not ancient history. It culminated during the lifetime of my father, who is a youthful 70.
As for Western admission and contrition, let me ask you this: how many Americans have ever been prosecuted for war crimes? How many Brits? How many French? Through all the epic wars and occupations and genocides, the figure struggles to get into double digits.
However, all this finger-pointing is pointless. Like you I am (mostly) an unabashed admirer of the West as it is today. Unlike you, I firmly believe that Sri Lanka can someday be as liberal, as tolerant, as democratic and as just. And the end of the war is a hugely important first step.
True, it can go either way. But all you have to offer is bottomless bitterness, contempt and ill-will. And if you think that’s being helpful, it’s probably because you enjoy the abundance and liberty of America with nary a thought for how it all came to be.
Dayan, I posted that scene from the movie just to highlight what forefathers of the US imagined for their country and what it had become. Bit of self reflection for those who praise their current conduct with no shame.
Not a parallel to Sri Lanka. I know it makes no sense that way.
Please read…. Then you won’t take what I say out of context.
I said “China has guaranteed funds to Sri Lanka SHOULD the IMF loan fail.”
Should the IMF loan fail implies that I am not expecting China to influence the IMF loan. I was saying Lanka need not necessarily worry about IMF loan. Reason being there are other sources of money such as China.
Can’t beieve I have to explain English now. And you went on and on about something completely off…
“But it did so in the most horrendous ways imaginable.”
That is all ancient history now. I don’t know why you people bring up events from 250 or 2500 years ago to make judgments on the 21st century. Every ancient civilization, East, Far East, and West, that I can think of indulged in some kind of brutality.
“The process consumed countless millions of lives and destroyed whole cultures all over the world. This is not ancient history. ”
So? Are you saying Genghis Khan and Attila the Hun did not try the same sorts of things? What’s your point? Do you want to blame the West for every ill?
“As for Western admission and contrition, let me ask you this: how many Americans have ever been prosecuted for war crimes? How many Brits? How many French?”
LOL. What kind of stupid question is that? Do you want to start war crimes tribunals for events that happened 300 years ago?
“Through all the epic wars and occupations and genocides, the figure struggles to get into double digits.”
I see you conveniently included the word “genocide” there. Let’s not forget what else these colonial people did: build roads, hospitals, schools…. DESTROY the feudal systems in place at that time, to their best of their abilities. Most Lankans were climbing coconut trees, fishing, or doing small-scale farming before these colonial people came. Let’s not act like Sri Lanka was some great Alexendrian-like learning capital of the world.
“However, all this finger-pointing is pointless. Like you I am (mostly) an unabashed admirer of the West as it is today. Unlike you, I firmly believe that Sri Lanka can someday be as liberal, as tolerant, as democratic and as just. And the end of the war is a hugely important first step.”
It ‘s not the end of the war that matters, it is the mentality ensuing from the way that the end was brought about. A new wave of racism and discrimination has hit, much worse than the old one. Any past President could have done what MR did, which is throw all the resources of the country towards a maximally brutal war effort. But there is such a thing as cost… now we have the IDP camps, foreign relations are at an all time low, the economy is in shambles, the various ethnic communities are more polarized than ever, 3/4 of the country is desperately crying for redevelopment, civil liberties have been curtailed…. this is why past President’s did NOT adopt the approach of MR.
“True, it can go either way. But all you have to offer is bottomless bitterness, contempt and ill-will. And if you think that’s being helpful, it’s probably because you enjoy the abundance and liberty of America with nary a thought for how it all came to be.”
Hahaha… I’m not so stupid as to believe a crook like Rajapakse (Helping Hambantota, Secret Deal with LTTE, Mihin Airlines) can do anything positive… a lot of the damage he has done is already irreparable. We will need a recovery plan just to survive from all the mistakes this idiot has made and will continue to make… its a perfect replica of Bush – you have a bunch of fundamentalist extremists (Southern Sinhalese Buddhists) supporting some religious zealot who abuses very last resource of the country for his stupid wars and crazy nationalist philosophy (compare “Bush Doctrine” to “Mahinda Chinthanaya”).
I have no big issue with you, Pragmatist – I agree with a lot of what you say in these threads. If my concern for diaspora moderates in the present context is interpreted as cowardice, then so be it. However, I would hate for you to go the eelam way to fight for the cause of peace in Sri Lanka – distributing pamphlets, wearing caps and t-shirts with slogans, petitioning congressmen (I’m quite sure that you won’t smash windows of embassies, though) – entering into a senseless propoganda war using the same methods as the LTTE, to win the peace? And you say I am misguided?
Why do you need so desperately to persuade American and European politicians that the cause of the SL government is just? I think we can leave Sri Lanka’s place in global geopolitics to our able diplomats, like DJ. What people like us need to contribute to is to make SL a better place to live in – for all its citizens; that is hard enough.
So the media is powerful – usually for a few days; then newspapers end in waste paper baskets and the TV has moved on to another story. As for the workplace, you would persuade more people that Sri Lankans, in general, are neither terrorists, murderers nor rapists by remaining a competent professional in your field, staying engaged and being respected by your colleagues for your moderation and compassion. There’s a long-term strategy there. Those relationships are for a life time, not the kind of ones you might or might not gain by distributing leaflets. The alliances you build outside the Sri Lankan community (and that is the problem with those people who stay within SL circles, playing cricket and partying) by being concerned with their issues and problems as much as yours, are going to count more in the long-run when you might need support.
Heshan, it would seem obvious if you read me with some attention that I have been quite consistent in not trying to hide “my true colours”. I am extremely saddened by the consequences of this war and feel that we need to put aside our political and other differences to help those who are currently suffering to go back to some semblance of a dignified life. However, this war was something that was created primarily by our own irrational citizens. The American and European countries and their so-called human rights groups have no business telling Sri Lanka what to do when their own hands are stained with blood. Whether war crime investigations or soul-searching – these are things that Sri Lankans need to do.
Meanwhile, Sri Lanka needs to take its place among Third World countries – the foreign policy being pursued now is therefore right and not only because it gives SL votes in the UNHRC. Sri Lanka belongs among these countries, whether these are more or less enlightened than European and North American countries. If they are less so, it is our task to contribute to making them just, liberal, tolerant and democratic, as RajivMW has pointed out. I have more faith in the people from Bolivia to the Philippines via Sri Lanka, than you have. For the record, China is not my pal; I admire the Dalai Lama and I think he is doing a thousand times better job for the Tibetan cause than Prabhakaran ever did for the Tamils – even when China does not recognize that at this point. However, neither China nor the Third World countries are going to change because European and North American countries come at them with a stick. That is a truth that seems to escape those people in the diaspora who insist on clutching at the apron strings of the Clintons and Milibands of this world.
For you information, the “western hand” is feeding less and less – especially Sri Lanka, which is considered a lower middle income country in conflict and thus not worthy of aid. It doesn’t even seem to have too much influence these days over the African countries it does give aid to. And I would be very surprised if the IMF loan does not come through – because this bank’s existence (and high-paying jobs of its staff) is dependent on lending money.
“The American and European countries and their so-called human rights groups have no business telling Sri Lanka what to do when their own hands are stained with blood.”
In that case, Sri Lanka has no business asking America and Europe for aid money to sustain the IDP camps. Neither does it have any right to ask for money for development. Do you agree? Let’s be fair… America and Europe don’t ask Sri Lanka for aid money, now do they?
Heshan,
“That is all ancient history now. I don’t know why you people bring up events from 250 or 2500 years ago to make judgments on the 21st century.”
Firstly, this is not ancient history. The colonial wars in Africa and South East Asia; the Israel/Palestine conflict; the wars in Indochina; Afghanistan & Iraq; these are all in living memory. Secondly, by your own logic, there’s no reason to make such a big fuss about the events in the Vanni – in a few years, that’ll be ‘ancient history’ too.
“Every ancient civilization, East, Far East, and West, that I can think of indulged in some kind of brutality.”
True, but the righteous indignation and threats being hurled at us today are coming from the West.
“Do you want to start war crimes tribunals for events that happened 300 years ago?”
No that would be ridiculous. But for events that happened over the last 50 to 75 years, it’s a perfectly legitimate idea. After all, Israel is still prosecuting Nazi war criminals. I think it would set a great example of the West’s moral superiority over grubby third world countries like ours.
“Let’s not forget what else these colonial people did: build roads, hospitals, schools…”
Let’s remember Heshan that we did indeed have roads, hospitals and schools in the precolonial era. But let’s be fair – the colonials brought us scientific method, an international language, and the rule of law. For which we paid with our virgin forests and self-esteem.
“DESTROY the feudal systems in place at that time, to their best of their abilities.”
The British destroyed our monarchy (and replaced it with their own). I’m not sure they tampered much with our feudal system. Indeed they used it to their advantage.
“Most Lankans were climbing coconut trees, fishing, or doing small-scale farming before these colonial people came.”
Europe was not blessed with coconut trees. But most Europeans also fished and farmed for a living at the time. What is inherently wrong with that?
“Let’s not act like Sri Lanka was some great Alexendrian-like learning capital of the world.”
But it was important centre of Buddhist learning. Although I suppose that wouldn’t really count in your books.
“It ‘s not the end of the war that matters, it is the mentality ensuing from the way that the end was brought about. A new wave of racism and discrimination has hit, much worse than the old one. Any past President could have done what MR did, which is throw all the resources of the country towards a maximally brutal war effort. But there is such a thing as cost… now we have the IDP camps, foreign relations are at an all time low, the economy is in shambles, the various ethnic communities are more polarized than ever, 3/4 of the country is desperately crying for redevelopment, civil liberties have been curtailed…. this is why past President’s did NOT adopt the approach of MR.”
Shock, horror. I agree with you. But you seem to think that this is a permanent, irredeemable situation. I don’t.
“Hahaha… I’m not so stupid as to believe a crook like Rajapakse (Helping Hambantota, Secret Deal with LTTE, Mihin Airlines) can do anything positive…”
But Sri Lanka is not Rajapakse, just like America wasn’t Bush.
“We will need a recovery plan just to survive from all the mistakes this idiot has made and will continue to make…”
So let’s discuss the plan then, instead of this unrelenting gloom and condemnation. Let’s engage with some thoughts, ideas, notions and strategies.
But I would urge you to keep it a little less fanciful than a NATO invasion.
Heshan, get real man! The sri Lanka government doesn’t have to beg for aid – all the disaster agencies are already lined up like vultures waiting for the kill. How do you think the “western” disaster industry is going to survive, where is everybody getting their per diems from, if SL were not to allow them in? Or were you naive enough to think that the HRC resolution was about refugees?
I’m still looking for the sentence “Let’s call a war crimes probe on afgenistan and Iraqi wars” from heshan.
He seems to have conveniently forgotten that none of the countries that are forcing the crime probe on us have undergone one themselves. (Except Rwanda who sided with them)
It’s very well to follow a rule that has been that all the rest of the forum follows. Its another thing to do whatever the powerful countries say so that we might get financial aid.
The “sissiness” heshan and mel gibson are talking about is when you bow and take everything thrown at you by powerful countries, just becuase you need something.
It is definietly not sissiness when you stand up to the most powerful countries in the world and say “NO”
And thank you rajivmw, for clearly explaining sentence by sentence to Heshan, as he seems to clearly lack the attention span to take a whole pargraph in at once. (Judging by his ability to take things out of context)
I agree with rajivmw as said above and more particularly the last para quoted below:
“We will need a recovery plan just to survive from all the mistakes …”
So let’s discuss the plan then, instead of this unrelenting gloom and condemnation. Let’s engage with some thoughts, ideas, notions and strategies.”
Probably the best concept for a political solution with meaningful and just power sharing arrangement.
An earnest APPEAL to all those who strive for sustainable peace in Sri Lanka
“The lack of engagement and communication, in turn adds to the sense of estrangement. This is not in the interests of either side, particularly the Sri Lankan people who yearn for peace, a just solution to the ethnic conflict and the hope of prosperity at least for their children.” – Jehan Perera, Executive Director of the National Peace Council of Sri Lanka.
With the above end in view please spare a part of your valuable time to ABSORB the meaning of the views submitted below.
Too much of time has been wasted in discussing the origins of the problems and the paths taken by various real patriotic and peace-loving persons to solve the problems in the ways they sincerely believed as the best. The problems have grown and evolved and had been twisted by many to suit their way of thinking.
So, it is high-time we start to RETHINK in terms of a solution that would address the ASPIRATIONS ALL THE PEOPLE in the country, not just the aspirations of the Tamils, in a just and meaningful way rather than continue to criticize other people for their “faults”.
Failures are the pillars of success. We have learned a lot of things through experience. With the experiences gained we will have to work for a change of heart not just a change of mind of all the people in the country.
“People who value democracy, equality and equity, needs to pressure the Sri Lankan state to take immediate action towards a meaningful and just power sharing arrangement. That is the only way to ensure security and the dignity of the peoples of Sri Lanka.
If peaceful coexistence through power sharing is not achievable, the only other solution that would be available will be secession” – Mr. Lionel Bopage, former Secretary of the JVP.
There is a vast difference between the policy and thinking of the ORIGINAL JVP to which Mr.Lionel Bopage belongs and the policy of the present JVP.
A new concept that moves towards a meaningful and just power-sharing arrangement based on true democracy – a large number of people participating in the governance of the country based on equality, equity – is a great deviation from the usual thinking of the meaning of the word “sharing of power” is given below for the perusal and comments of concerned people.
Many, who call themselves as ‘moderates’ and advocating a “Unitary State” are not willing to consider this NEW concept of the phrase “sharing of power” that gives a certain degree of ‘power’ with ‘responsibility’ to as many as possible including the poor and voiceless silent majority in the country and not excluding the so-called “minorities” and still maintain the “character” of a “Unitary State”
Now, one word, for those who are actually and sincerely interested in fostering a unitary-state by supporting “devolution” as a means to achieve sustainable peace, please avoid thinking in terms of “devolution” and instead please try to think in terms of “sharing of powers”, rights, duties and responsibilities that cannot be taken back at any time by any government or individual by any method.
The best political solution to address the problems faced by various sections of the Sri Lankan society – particularly the poor, the politically weak and the “minorities” who do not carry any “political weight” – would be to DILUTE the powers of all elected representatives of the people by separating the various powers of the Parliament and by horizontally empowering different sets of people’s representatives elected on different area basis to administer the different sets of the separated powers at different locations.
It has to be devolution HORIZONTALLY where each and every set of representatives would be in the SAME LEVEL as equals and in par and NOT VERTICALLY, where one set of representatives would be above (more powerful than) the other, which is the normal adopted practice when talking of devolution, in this power-hungry world. It is because “devolution of power” has been evolved “vertically”, we have all the trouble in this power-hungry world. So, for sustainable peace it should not be the present form of “devolution of power” but “dilution of powers” or “sharing of powers” in such a way that no single person or single set of people’s representatives be “superior” to another.
This system would help to eradicate injustice, discrimination, bribery and corruption – the four pillars of an evil society – and help to establish the “Rule of Law” and “Rule by ALL” for sustainable peace, tranquility and prosperity and a pleasant harmonious living with dignity and respect for all the inhabitants in the country. Everyone must have “equal” powers, rights, duties and responsibilities and most importantly everyone should be deemed “equal” and treated “equally” before the law not only on paper but also practically – be it the Head of State, The Chief Justice or the voiceless poor of the poorest in the country.
Since all political and other powers flow from the sovereignty of the people, it is proposed herein that these powers be not given to any ONE set of representatives but distributed among different sets of people’s representatives (groups) elected on different area basis (village and villages grouped) to perform the different, defined and distinct functions of one and the same institution – the Parliament – like the organs of our body – heart, lungs, kidneys, eyes, nose, ear etc. – performing different and distinct functions to enable us to sustain normal life.
A detailed version of the concept, which is quite long is available for discussion by interested individuals with an aim to change the hearts not just a change of mind of the citizens of this country who aim to preserve a UNITARY form of Government with every section of people from every part of the country PRACTICALLY PARTICIPATING in the GOVERNANCE OF THE COUNTRY in a meaningful way. In a way it may be termed “participatory democracy”. In this system the COUNTRY IS NOT DIVIDED but the “powers of governance’ of the Parliament is separated and administered COLLECTIVELY by different sets of peoples representatives.
The system suggested is neither a federal state for which “Thanthai Chelva” worked hard through non-violent means for nearly thirty years nor the “Two State Solution” for which the LTTE is fighting through violent means for more than thirty years. It is a combination of both and is between both but still a “unitary” state.
The solution advocated can be compared to the policy of the EPDP – a partner in the present government – “self-governance at Regional Level and collective governance at the National Level”. Basically there are some differences between the suggestions above and that of the EPDP. First, the above suggestions are for sharing of power horizontally and EPDP’s suggestions are for sharing power vertically. Second, EPDP’s suggestions are for addressing the aspirations of the Tamils while the above suggestions are for addressing the aspirations of the PEOPLE, not just that of the Tamils alone. A careful perusal of the above suggestions in FULL will enlighten the need for such an approach.
Give and Take is the best policy. Rule or control your “self” and allow everyone to rule themselves.
LIVE AND LET LIVE
IF THERE IS A SINCERE WILL to treat all inhabitants of the county with dignity and as respectful citizens of this country, enjoying equal rights in all respects, then THE ABOVE IS A WAY
The above suggestions are by a voiceless member of the silent majority who wants all voice to be heard.
“Firstly, this is not ancient history. The colonial wars in Africa and South East Asia;”
Why are you going on and on about colonialism? Colonialism ended 70-80 years ago. Also, you can’t just blame every problem that a country has on colonialism. What about Singapore? It too was colonized. What about Japan? It was occupied by Americans. Are these nations now begging for aid?
” the Israel/Palestine conflict; the wars in Indochina; Afghanistan & Iraq; these are all in living memory.”
The Israeli/Palestinian conflict is an ancient one. The Israeli’s claim it is their historical homeland. I have already explained Afghanistan and Iraq. Afghanistan was DIRECTLY used as a base to house Al Q’uida which then ATTACKED the United States. Al Q’uida has also attacked London and Madrid. That’s why NATO is in Afghanistan, not just the Americans! As for Iraq, MOST of the civilian deaths were caused by ARAB insurgents, not Americans. If America wanted to destroy Iraq, they could bomb the place to obscurity in 5 minutes… this is NOT their intention….
“Secondly, by your own logic, there’s no reason to make such a big fuss about the events in the Vanni – in a few years, that’ll be ‘ancient history’ too.”
What are you on about? Wanni events are occurring in 2009, not 1960. By the way, there have been many inquiries into the atrocities committed by Americans during the Vietnam War.
“True, but the righteous indignation and threats being hurled at us today are coming from the West.”
That’s because nations like Sri Lanka are begging aid money from the West. As I said, don’t bite the hand that feeds you. If you want to do it “your way”, build your own weapons, fund your economy with YOUR money, fund your refugee camps with YOUR money, etc. etc. Get the picture yet?
”
No that would be ridiculous. But for events that happened over the last 50 to 75 years, it’s a perfectly legitimate idea. After all, Israel is still prosecuting Nazi war criminals. I think it would set a great example of the West’s moral superiority over grubby third world countries like ours.”
If you want to do that, you have to mention the specific incidents and get the witnesses to talk. You can’t just say “the West invaded Iraq and Afghanistan and did bad things there…” why, because there have been 10000000000000001 invasions throughout the course of history.
”
Let’s remember Heshan that we did indeed have roads, hospitals and schools in the precolonial era. But let’s be fair – the colonials brought us scientific method, an international language, and the rule of law. For which we paid with our virgin forests and self-esteem.”
Who are you kidding? I don’t know about Tamils, but Sinhalese were nicely divided into Govigama, Karawa, Salagama, etc…. whether you like it or not, it is the British who put these people on an equal footing.
”
The British destroyed our monarchy (and replaced it with their own). I’m not sure they tampered much with our feudal system. Indeed they used it to their advantage.”
As far as I know, there was never any British king in Sri Lanka. There were simply colonial administrators.
“Europe was not blessed with coconut trees. But most Europeans also fished and farmed for a living at the time. What is inherently wrong with that”
Actually Europe was undergoing the Industrial Revolution… it was transitioning from agriculture dependent to factory dependent.
“But it was important centre of Buddhist learning. Although I suppose that wouldn’t really count in your books.”
Who cares???
”
”
“But Sri Lanka is not Rajapakse, just like America wasn’t Bush.”
Actually it is. Bush had to go to through the US Congress. Rajapakse need not go through anyone; how many ministries are his brothers controlling? Now factor in his friends (Sarath Silva, Nivaard Cabraal, Ashantha De Mel) and he has the whole country at his disposal (military, finance, customs, reconstruction, etc.)
”
“So let’s discuss the plan then, instead of this unrelenting gloom and condemnation. Let’s engage with some thoughts, ideas, notions and strategies.”
How do you educate the millions of people in Southern Sri Lanka who are technology illiterate and think the West is supporting the LTTE/Tamil separatism? That is the long-term solution, but I don’t see it happening anytime soon.
Let’s be realistic: there won’t be any power-sharing while Rajapakse is around. This is why I never supported the war; this man simply used the war to build up his family dynasty.
The only kind of power-sharing model that will work is the federal one. To implement that, you need someone like Ranil Wickremasinghe, who is more in tune with the modern world.
All of this post-victory nonsense, from Rajapakse’s silly victory speech, to his bowing to Buddhist monks, to the so-called nonsense parade held at Galle Face Green – all of this just shows that Rajapakse cannot think outside of the Sinhala-nationalism box…. he will do whatever is necessary to make sure his Southern support base occupied and quiet… but beyond this, the man simply cannot lacks the innovation, dare I say, competence, to come up with a federal solution which all of his extremist allies and even voter base will strongly oppose.
“The sri Lanka government doesn’t have to beg for aid – all the disaster agencies are already lined up like vultures waiting for the kill”
Who do you think funds all the disaster agencies? China? Venezuela? 40% of all UN funding alone comes from the United States.
Do you know which nation donated the most aid money to Sri Lanka after the tsunami? The good old USA…. I suppose at that time the pathetic Government-run newspapers in the South thought twice before spewing their ” Western imperialist” dribble!
Sri Lanka has a growing economy and maintained growth even during the current recession! Now that the US is in a war even they have gone into Trillions of national debt.
War was the curse that hampered Sri Lanka’s economic prosperity and I’m sure any economist would agree with that after seeing the figures and the potential of Sri Lanka.
The West is rich NOW because they stole from countries like Sri Lanka when they were colonial rulers. They didn’t start tea, rubber plantation to make the natives rich! It all went into the Queen’s chest.
So if they chose to give aid, what they give is NOT CHARITY! They are giving us the money that they owe for the slave labour and RICH national resources they STOLE from countries like SRI LANKA and the IRREPRESSIBLY DAMAGE they’ve done! Please don’t make me laugh so much heshan with your shallow arguments.
Why do you think US is in Iraq? Not freakin WMDs it’s OIL! They’re ripping off Iraqis for cheap oil while slaughtering the civilians and ruining that country into oblivion. There’s some great human rights there – I urge you to watch “War Tapes” on the Discovery channel if you have it. You will see some of the real carnage the US is inflicting on poor Iraq. That country has gone to hell. Saddam was a saint compared to Bush. When you pump GAS into your gas guzzling energy inefficient SVU please remember you’re pumping Iraqi blood.
The only thing we BEG for is to THEM to stay OUT of our “poor” country. And not to bad mouth us when its uncalled for.
They never gave what we asked for anyway. So we got it from our neighbours who were willing to help. They just flaunt money thinking money solves everything. Typical western mentality.. whatevs.
Anyway the so called “charity” comes with Lord Jesus marching right behind it. Sometimes you really have to wonder if it’s the West that’s providing the funds or the Vatican. We all knew America was a puppet of the Vatican when Bush vetoed stem cell research in the name of God. Oh dear lord!
And they think Sri Lanka is a religious nation and not secular enough.
(Sorry if I caused any offence to Christians. Not my intention!)
P.S. I was just silently laughing today when I was reading on the news that PM Gordon Brown at 10 Downing street, UK is in a bit of a pickle since people are asking him to step down or call elections after the labour government that includes Mr. Miliband ripped off Tax payers collectively. Quite corrupt no? Shame shame.. and some gentlemen/ladies would put them on a pedestal and say MR and his brothers are corrupt. I’m not saying they’re not. All politicians are corrupt and even kids know this. I just can’t comprehend the hypocrisy.
Talkin about MR using the war to build family dynasty… I won’t rebut this quite simply because I don’t know anything about it. But I know something else heshan dear,
During the Iraq war, after US bombed the hell out of Iraq’s infrastructure (yes destroying all the bridges were absolutely necessary to stop Iraqi tank movements.. although they never fired a single shell nor left their barracks). using the latest and greatest in bomber technology, dropping from cluster f@#$s to bunker busters…
However, after “major combat operations finished” and they started running free bastardisation services for the people of Iraq, the “rebuilding contracts” (involuntarily paid for by Iraqi oil, now owned by US ARMY..) were handed out to a company called Haliburton. Of which at that time US vice president Dick Cheney was an ex CEO. Not only that Haliburton had numerous ex staffers within the ranks of the US government and the military.
And the way they wasted tax payer money was SPECTACULAR indeed. It beats the cream of the corrupt in South Asian countries. Just google and you will get an abundance of docos exposing their dirty deeds.
I could go on and on and give counter examples of very things heshan is accusing “uncivilised” Sri Lanka of. I just can’t keep up with the frequency an ferocity of heshan I admit, it’s just a shame I have a day job and more productive things to do.
Like rajivmw said, demonising Sri Lanka is pointless. It’s more productive engaging in how to move forward.
Dear, dear Heshan. Which planet do you come from? You think I don’t know that the disaster industry is financed by the US and its allies? The point is not who finances it but why it is financed and what you do about it.
Do you know how much of this precious US aid actually went to the tsunami affected people and how much went right back into the pockets of citizens of your country? It is not rocket science – everyone in the aid/disaster industry knows it. The tsunami victims are lucky if they received even 10% of the aid. The reason those countries invest in the aid industry is after all to primarily keep their unemployed professionals employed, and their consulting and engineering companies afloat, and secondly to kill two birds with one stone, i.e. the hope that by providing some crumbs from their tables they can “win hearts and minds” so that the world will be a little bit safer place for them to live in. It is their economic and global security concerns that drives that particular industry.
In case you didn’t know it – the US happens to be one of the world’s most generous misers, providing 0.16% of its GDP, fourth from the bottom among the OECD countries. Moreover 47% of its aid is tied – higher than most of the other OECD countries. All these countries are complicit in maintaining a global political economic structure which keeps poor countries like SL poor (why don’t your read one of the other threads in “groundviews” on the politics of aid). So unlike you, none of us are slaves enough to think that we should shower our gratitude to Uncle Sam or our previous colonial masters. As most people know by now, the aid industry is their SAFETY NET to control their unemployment and maintain their national security. Why don’t you read the bills that go before congress in your country?
“War was the curse that hampered Sri Lanka’s economic prosperity and I’m sure any economist would agree with that after seeing the figures and the potential of Sri Lanka.”
Not just war but also political corruption.
“The West is rich NOW because they stole from countries like Sri Lanka when they were colonial rulers. They didn’t start tea, rubber plantation to make the natives rich! It all went into the Queen’s chest.”
The West is rich now because the Industrial Revolution allowed them to build bigger and better ships which then allowed them to expand their trade. Also, the West embraced the ideas of parliamentary democracy, free public education, secularism, and respect for civil liberties.
“So if they chose to give aid, what they give is NOT CHARITY! They are giving us the money that they owe for the slave labour and RICH national resources they STOLE from countries like SRI LANKA and the IRREPRESSIBLY DAMAGE they’ve done!”
What are these rich natural resources they stole from Sri Lanka? Mango’s? Plantains? Batiks? Yes they did provide the labour, e.g. Indian Tamils, to pick the tea, but only because the Kandyans refused to do it themselves. Thanks to the “slave labour” of this group of people, whom the Sri Lankan Government tried to disenfranchise and to whom the Sri Lankan Government has offered zero-assistance in 60 years, annual revenue from tea is $1 billion USD. Let’s also not forget that the idea of growing tea in the first place was a British idea…. so much for “irreprssible damage”…. compared to tea, the “Mihin Airlines” investment can’t hold a candle.
“Why do you think US is in Iraq? Not freakin WMDs it’s OIL! They’re ripping off Iraqis for cheap oil while slaughtering the civilians and ruining that country into oblivion.”
LOL. They buy the oil and the money goes back to the Iraqi’s themselves. They don’t need to “slaughter any civilians” to get the oil… civilians don’t live in the oilfields.
“There’s some great human rights there – I urge you to watch “War Tapes” on the Discovery channel if you have it. You will see some of the real carnage the US is inflicting on poor Iraq. That country has gone to hell.”
“”"”"”"”"Barzani, who is the son of the legendary Kurdish mountain fighter Mustafa Barzani, is, despite his pedigree, a retiring man, small-boned, almost delicate, and difficult to draw into conversation. But he was nearly ebullient at lunch. He said that he was pleased, over all, with the war’s progress. When Fleishman and I mentioned that some commentators were comparing America’s experience in Iraq to its experience in Vietnam, he said, “It’s completely different. In Vietnam, you were supporting the dictatorship against the people. Here you’re supporting the people against the dictator.” He continued, “This is a very good time for us.” At one point, he motioned upward, where the faint contrails of B-52 bombers could be seen against the blue sky. “We like to have the presence of Americans here,” he said, patting my hand”"”"”"”"”"”"”"”"
Read that last line over and over again till it gets hammered into your skull: every last Kurd in Iraq is glad the Americans invaded.
” Saddam was a saint compared to Bush.”
The same Saddam who gassed 5000 Kurds to death? The same Saddam who’s son Udey around town picking up random women to rape? The same Saddam who tried to invade Iran and attack Saudi Arabia? The same Saddam who got rich off of kickbacks from the Oil for Food Program?
By the way… where do you think Sri Lankan oil comes from? Hambantota? The larger share comes from Saudi Arabia…. if Saddam had successfully invaded Saudi Arabia, you would probably be fishing, like your ancestors before the British time.
“During the Iraq war, after US bombed the hell out of Iraq’s infrastructure (yes destroying all the bridges were absolutely necessary to stop Iraqi tank movements.. although they never fired a single shell nor left their barracks). using the latest and greatest in bomber technology, dropping from cluster f@#$s to bunker busters…”
That’s funny… I’ve seen lots and lots of bridges in Iraq, via the news. Here is one such bridge where evil American’s are being strung up (of course you will not hear Observer mention this, since only Americans are capable of killing Iraq’s and not vice-versa):
http://www.historycommons.org/events-images/a140_blackwater_massacre_2050081722-13250.jpg
Here is another bridge in Baghdad that was partially blown up by ARAB insurgents (funny how Observer forgets to mention the destruction caused by ARAB insurgents):
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.smh.com.au/ffximage/2007/04/12/bridge_wideweb__470x312,0.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/bridge-bomb-sends-cars-plunging-into-river/2007/04/12/1175971240417.html&usg=__2FGwlh5lVveyq0NqApIC604ZlT0=&h=312&w=470&sz=35&hl=en&start=2&sig2=gGqUyl4euBUl_10NFeZGog&um=1&tbnid=xLCM3QDON-l-SM:&tbnh=86&tbnw=129&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dbridge%2Bin%2BBaghdad%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff%26sa%3DG%26um%3D1&ei=E-8nSpW8M6PcMK6lzJAF
“However, after “major combat operations finished” and they started running free bastardisation services for the people of Iraq, the “rebuilding contracts” (involuntarily paid for by Iraqi oil, now owned by US ARMY..) ”
So “Observer” now admits Iraqi oil was used to rebuild Iraq.
“were handed out to a company called Haliburton.”
Not just Haliburton but a number of private contractors.
“Not only that Haliburton had numerous ex staffers within the ranks of the US government and the military.”
Wow what an evil crime! An evil company called Haliburton with “numerous ex staffers within the ranks of the US government and the military.”
BOO!
“And the way they wasted tax payer money was SPECTACULAR indeed. It beats the cream of the corrupt in South Asian countries. Just google and you will get an abundance of docos exposing their dirty deeds.”
Yes… putting together a new Constitution was a waste of time, liberating the Kurds from Saddam’s oppression was a crime, putting together multi-ethnic Government for Iraq was a waste of time…. using Iraqi money to redevelop the country (as opposed to building more pleasure palaces for Saddam) was a waste of time…
“I could go on and on and give counter examples of very things heshan is accusing “uncivilised” Sri Lanka of. I just can’t keep up with the frequency an ferocity of heshan I admit, it’s just a shame I have a day job and more productive things to do.”
The story about the bridges was a nice one. For a second, I thought I was reading “Harry Potter.”
“Like rajivmw said, demonising Sri Lanka is pointless. It’s more productive engaging in how to move forward.”
Yes.. just sweep the war crimes under the carpet, BEG enough aid money to keep the Tamils in the concentration camps alive, and plan the next gala celebrations for his Highness Mahinda Dutugumenu (definitely NOT a waste of taxpayer money)
“P.S. I was just silently laughing today when I was reading on the news that PM Gordon Brown at 10 Downing street, UK is in a bit of a pickle since people are asking him to step down or call elections after the labour government that includes Mr. Miliband ripped off Tax payers collectively.”
Shame on the British media for exposing this! Must be an Asian conspiracy to discredit the UK! What the UK needs now is a strong Defense Secretary, of the likes of Gotabaya Rajapakse to send the white vans and put these traitors out of their misery for good! Where are the patriots like Mervyn to take the message *personally” to the broadcasting stations?
Hak, hak…
This guy Heshan is the perfect example and evidence of why his hero Ranil Wickremesinghe (and the UNP so long as it is led by him), will keep losing elections, very badly.
Dayan J:
It’s too bad your job requires you incessantly toe the GOSL line. Your writings come across as a combination between Goebbels and Machiavelli, interspersed with the occasional Communist rambling – definitely a unique combination. Your work with previous, more moderate governments, however, as well as your past activism in certain movements, suggests the racist undertones are more of a “day to day” nuisance than the product of any ingrained convictions.
In any case, I would like to see you someday spill the secrets of your current bosses in a “Victor Ivan” type memoir.
I leave you with a nice tidbit from your counterpart, Goebbel’s, of yesteryear:
“Is there any reason to doubt that we will return this people to its just place among the nations of the world? We have had the courage to break with the unacceptable methods of international post-war diplomacy (hak, hak… ) and claim the absolute right of the German nation to national honor and equality. We knew from the beginning that it would take a tough battle. Today we think we can say that we will win if we keep our nerve.”
Heshan,
You are either unable or unwilling to comprehend my arguments, so I won’t bother anymore. Let me just correct some facts.
***
“you can’t just blame every problem that a country has on colonialism”.
Quite right. Which is why I didn’t.
***
“Afghanistan was DIRECTLY used as a base to house Al Q’uida which then ATTACKED the United States. Al Q’uida has also attacked London and Madrid. That’s why NATO is in Afghanistan, not just the Americans!”
I never said the Afghanistan war was purely an American venture. Nor did I even question the justification for it. What is the point of this? In fact it validates the GoSL’s war in the Northeast (which was DIRECTLY used as a base to house the LTTE which then ATTACKED Sri Lanka).
***
“By the way, there have been many inquiries into the atrocities committed by Americans during the Vietnam War.”
Really? Name them.
FYI secret govt documents released in the 90s listed 320 substantiated atrocities committed by US forces in Indochina. As far as I’ve uncovered, there was only one American ever convicted of anything. William Calley, for the Mai Lai massacre of up to 500 Vietnamese civilians. He served three years under house arrest.
***
“That’s because nations like Sri Lanka are begging aid money from the West. As I said, don’t bite the hand that feeds you.”
India has contributed much more than the West to the relief effort. I think their approach will yield far more positive results all round.
***
“If you want to do that, you have to mention the specific incidents and get the witnesses to talk. You can’t just say “the West invaded Iraq and Afghanistan and did bad things there…”
For the sake of brevity, let’s just take Afghanistan. From Wikipedia:
<>
<>
International war crimes probe anyone?
***
“I don’t know about Tamils, but Sinhalese were nicely divided into Govigama, Karawa, Salagama, etc…. whether you like it or not, it is the British who put these people on an equal footing”
Yes. As long as they became like you Heshan – adopting without question the language, beliefs and ways of their conquerors. Only then could they fool themselves into thinking there was an ‘equal’ society under the British.
***
“As far as I know, there was never any British king in Sri Lanka. There were simply colonial administrators.”
The British monarch became our sovereign. Ask your grandparents about it.
***
“Actually Europe was undergoing the Industrial Revolution… it was transitioning from agriculture dependent to factory dependent.”
The Industrial Revolution took place in the 19th Century. The European colonization of SL began in the 16th Century.
***
“Who cares??? [about SL once being an important centre of Buddhist learning]”
True to form. Just the kind of shallow contempt I was expecting from you.
***
“How do you educate the millions of people in Southern Sri Lanka who are technology illiterate and think the West is supporting the LTTE/Tamil separatism?”
With patience, determination, respect and goodwill. Now how do we educate you?
Sorry here are the missing wikipedia quotes with regards to Afghanistan:
“According to Marc W. Herold’s Dossier on Civilian Victims of United States’ Aerial Bombing at least 3,700 and probably closer to 5,000 civilians were killed by the end of 2002 as a result of U.S. bombing.”
“In a pair of January 2002 studies, Carl Conetta of the Project on Defense Alternatives estimated that, at least 4,200-4,500 civilians were killed by mid-January 2002 as a result of the U.S. war and airstrikes…”
International war crimes probe anyone?
“I never said the Afghanistan war was purely an American venture. Nor did I even question the justification for it. What is the point of this? In fact it validates the GoSL’s war in the Northeast (which was DIRECTLY used as a base to house the LTTE which then ATTACKED Sri Lanka).”
Nice try! The Sri Lankan conflict has different roots – it is an internal conflict based on 60 years of discrimination by the majority against the minority. Afghanistan was used as a base to house an organization, A’L Q’uida, that only made threats against the entire Western world but also carried them out. Madrid, London, Africa, New York, Iraq, Israel, Saudi Arabia… blowing up foreign skyscrapers, foreign commercial airliners, foreign trains, foreign embassies, foreign planes, foreign ships, car bombs, assassinations, etc… not to mention, it posed a major threat to the stability of Pakistan, which possesses nuclear weapons. By extension, the presence of Al Q’uida in Afghanistan posed a threat to India (we also ready saw what the Lashkar-e-Taiba and the Jaish-e-Mohammad did in Mumbai) and thereby the entire Southeast Asian region. Pervez Musharaf has written an excellent book about the efforts taken by his Government to contain Islamic fundamentalism, which depend heavily on American support. On the other hand, we can say that the LTTE only posed a threat to Sinhala-Buddhist fundamentalism in Sri Lanka. I have written elsewhere that the LTTE could easily have been handled by the diaspora; even the Ranil Wickremasinghe approach was slowly yielding profitable results.
“Really? Name them”
“By April 1971, with at least seven legislative proposals relating to the Vietnam war under consideration, the Senate Foreign Relations Committee chaired by Senator William Fulbright (Democrat-Arkansas) began to hear testimony. On the third day of hearings, six members of the committee heard comments by John Kerry, a leader of the major veterans organization opposing continuation of the war. Kerry was the only representative of Vietnam Veterans Against the War (VVAW) who testified on April 22, but others in VVAW were in the audience and at times supported his remarks with applause.
Statement of Mr. John Kerry
…I am not here as John Kerry. I am here as one member of the group of 1,000 which is a small representation of a very much larger group of veterans in this country, and were it possible for all of them to sit at this table they would be here and have the same kind of testimony….
WINTER SOLDIER INVESTIGATION
I would like to talk, representing all those veterans, and say that several months ago in Detroit, we had an investigation at which over 150 honorably discharged and many very highly decorated veterans testified to war crimes committed in Southeast Asia, not isolated incidents but crimes committed on a day-to-day basis with the full awareness of officers at all levels of command….
They told the stories at times they had personally raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, taped wires from portable telephones to human genitals and turned up the power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies, randomly shot at civilians, razed villages in fashion reminiscent of Genghis Khan, shot cattle and dogs for fun, poisoned food stocks, and generally ravaged the countryside of South Vietnam in addition to the normal ravage of war, and the normal and very particular ravaging which is done by the applied bombing power of this country.”
You can read the rest for yourself: https://facultystaff.richmond.edu/~ebolt/history398/JohnKerryTestimony.html
“FYI secret govt documents released in the 90s listed 320 substantiated atrocities committed by US forces in Indochina.”
You are talking about events that occurred in the 60′s, so that you can justify an events that occurred from 2008-2009. A much more relevant example would be Iraq… why don’t you uncover “secret documents” and reveal to us the number of US Army Personnel convicted for HR violations? Actually there is no need to even uncover such documents, as the media has done an extensive job in publicizing all such incidents.
“India has contributed much more than the West to the relief effort.”
India has also contributed far more weapons. As far as scale goes, Indian products are generally inferior (radar anyone?) and therefore cheaper which explains the massive volume.
“adopting without question the language, beliefs and ways of their conquerors. Only then could they fool themselves into thinking there was an ‘equal’ society under the British.”
The British never forced anyone to convert and/or attend English schools. They offered incentives, however – I see nothing wrong with that. Since Sri Lanka would be administered under a British Parliamentary model, one could not expect a monk, for example, to be competent. One would have to be trained/educated under a British system and of course be able to speak English. Now in the present day, we see the consequences of not following this model – we still have the Westminister Model, but incompetent monks with zero qualifications, as well as home-grown Marxists are allowed an active role in Parliamentary affairs. The consequences are not difficult to ascertain. Fact of the matter is, one needs a classical Western education, at least partially, to prevent paralysis of the Civil Service, unless one is intent on fully rejecting capitalism. Why do you think the USSR collapsed? Even today Russia is afraid of the spread of NATO to Eastern Europe.
“According to Marc W. Herold’s Dossier on Civilian Victims of United States’ Aerial Bombing at least 3,700 and probably closer to 5,000 civilians were killed by the end of 2002 as a result of U.S. bombing.”
20,000 civilians were killed due to Sri Lanka’s refusal to adhere to a No Fire Zone. Furthermore, it is thought that 13,000 civilians have disappeared from internment camps, while 300,000 are being illegally held in violation of every UN Charter known to man. I suggest you try much harder to buttress your 5000 casualty figure.
*that not only made threats against the entire Western world but also carried them out.
heshan’s posts always gives me a chuckle.. anyway.. about the bridges. have u heard of figurative speech? it’s a literal tool used to convey a message. my message being americans bombed a whole lot of public infrastructure without warrant. especially when they weren’t even providing a significant counter offensive.
besides your grappling with the tools of english language, for a logical mind it would be obvious that it is not necessary to bomb every “bridge” in order to stop tank movements, because some bridges are not structurally able to carry the enormous weight of them. such bridges indeed would be spared. lol again you went off on tangential lines of argument just to counter my figurative speech.
spare me the proof. i didn’t even open the links but thanks for the effort.
so after americans bombed iraq at their discretion why the hell should iraqis pay for the rebuilding. those who break shall maketh at their expense.
if i came into your house and broke all your furniture and possessions would you turn around pay me to replace them? hahaha pleaseee… its no secret that rebuilding came at very steep unreasonable prices paid for by black gold. essentially day light robbery that america committed on top of a humanitarian catastrophe in iraq. even then lots of projects were sub par and there is ample half built hospitals with pipes exploding – you’d just say it’s iraqi masonry incompetence as you’ve become quite predictable in your counter argument.
a little less harry potter and more reality. open your eyes instead of being a slave to your white master. embrace your brown skin and rip the veil that distorts your view of the west. if bush had you at his disposal as the PR person, atrocities like gitmo would be like sugar candy in the eyes of the world.
“my message being americans bombed a whole lot of public infrastructure without warrant. especially when they weren’t even providing a significant counter offensive.”
You specifically said all bridges were bombed. Now you’re changing your tune and saying they bombed a whole of infrastructure. Clearly your first statement was wrong. The second one might be true but demands elaboration. They did not carpet bomb Iraq; all aerial bombing consisted of precision airstrikes based on UAV’s, satellite imagery, etc. We are talking about an airforce that literally won the Gulf War (if you know what that is) from the air; that is how good the American Airforce is.
“so after americans bombed iraq at their discretion why the hell should iraqis pay for the rebuilding.”
This is the problem I see with the general anti-Western spiel which emanates from the extremists: you ppl make broad generalizations without ever being specific. How much infrastructure was there to begin with? What are the types of infrastructure that were bombed? And how much infrastructure was remaining afterwards? Also, do you even know how much American taxpayer money the USA has invested in Iraq? Why don’t you state the proportion of taxpayer money to Iraqi oil revenue, on an annual basis?
“open your eyes instead of being a slave to your white master. embrace your brown skin and rip the veil that distorts your view of the west.”
There you go spouting your mythology once again. The “brown” people you speak of are among the highest earners here. We don’t have to drive 3-wheelers or cheat tourists by marking up the price 10% at tourist sites. We don’t crowd around tourists like pack dogs ready for an attack either. And there are no lines outside any foreign embassies that stretch for miles (there are no lines outside, period). The best thing is the educational system; practically everyone has access to a decent education and the Government subsidizes university education for everyone with the right credentials. If that fails, then there are still other opportunities to pursue higher education and easily obtain the equivalent of a university education at an extremely low cost. The Government here takes care of the middle class, whereas in S. Lanka it doesn’t take care of anyone, except perhaps the tourists (Sir? Sir? Welcome Sir…)
Heshan’s hashing of History is best revealed by his comment that “we can say that the LTTE only posed a threat to Sinhala-Buddhist fundamentalism in Sri Lanka.” This is doubtless why the LTTE fought the Sinhala Buddhist fundamentalist IPKF, murdered the Sinhala Buddhist fundamentalist Rajiv Gandhi, and was extirpated with the tacit approval and support of the Sinhala Buddhist fundamentalist India, Pakistan, Russia, China and Iran. What a clown!
No Chinese, Russian, Pakistani, or Iranian soldier ever set foot on Lankan soil. As for India, it was (once upon a time), a supporter of the LTTE. Hardly a threat, need I say. The original intention of the IPFK was not to subdue the LTTE but implement a peace accord.
If Dayan Jayatillake wishes the readers to think a few thousand LTTE guys in rubber slippers were a match for the million-man Chinese army, or nuclear armed Russia, or Pakistan or Iran, I leave the readers to draw their own (unpleasant) conclusions.
i guess heshan is really pushing the envelop of BS FACTS. so has anyone been following up on the resurgence of hate crime in the US targeting minorities these days? oh wait hate crime is only isolated to evil sri lanka. sorry forgot.
remember all it takes for all these utopian countries is a downturn in the economy to resort to primal instincts. just hope US will stay rich at the expense of the likes of iraq cuz when the new super powers start to really dominate and take a larger piece of the pie leaving crumbs, the social fabric will collapse. just pray that you have white skin when that happens. who knows u may even migrate to the likes of sri lanka. it’s all not that far fetched if you really think about it.
on a side note, don’t worry about tourism lol
for the working class people in western countries, holidays in thailand, sri lanka, india are the only places they will get pampered so well and get to sit in a rickshaw and whip a man like a horse heck even toy children to play with if you catch my drift. otherwise would they really bargain at the souvenir shops or flee markets? oh yes they will keep coming!
btw when i said “whip a man like a horse” it is again figurative speech. please don’t tell me thats not how rickshaws operate!
Thanks for the astounding advice Observer. Why don’t you pass it on to Barack Obama, the current leader of the racist USA, in which (by your logic) minorities are running for their life… excuse me, but I should go running now.
“in which (by your logic) minorities are running for their life… ”
I didn’t say minorities are massively targeted yet! Only the occasional racial slurs like “f@#k off you terrorists” when they see a brown man. It is getting bad though with whole post 9/11 and economic crisis.
“just pray that you have white skin WHEN that happens”. When implies some thing that is yet to occur. Again please read before you reply. Or you’re struggling with English.
Anyway if you’re in the ghettos you should be running! A lot are… Hopefully you have a decent job and live in a good neighborhood so you don’t have to run.