Comments on: Calling a spade a spade: Michael Roberts’ ‘moral relativism’

By: david

david — Fri, 13 Mar 2009 13:20:25 +0000

Yes, Discussing the ENDs separately from the MEANS would bring clarity to this debate. Every one agrees on the ENDS. It is the MEANS to achieve the ENDS that are being debated.

By: nadesan

nadesan — Thu, 12 Mar 2009 13:03:40 +0000

I think CDW has hit the nail. The Human rights people are talking about ideals and everybody (including Roberts and all right thinking people) agree on this. The issue is about the MEANS to achieve ENDS. The Marxist “left-thinkers”, the Eelamists, the JVP, Pol Pot and the Fascists have claimed that the “end justifies the means”. So, when Kumar David and Bopage come forward as champions of Human rights, they are the “prostitutes” who have changed hue because they want to defend the LTTE. The LTTE has done to the Tamils what neither the Sinhalese, nor the Portuguese could do – i.e., reduce the Tamils from a thriving 18-20% to a mere 8% or perhaps even less, living under the thumb of the LTTE. The Tamils enjoyed leadership in banking, commerce and the professions in the 1950-1960s, and were far more influential in the country than our 18% population. But due to the extra-parliamentary political agitation of the Tamil parties, we roused political hostility against us, and lost everything.

t would be like the Jews in New York agitating for Yiddish Language rights and launching civil-disobedience against the US government!.
The crack-down would be swift and unmerciful. But the Sinhala governments have dithered and gone at it in fits and starts, allowing the LTTE to rear its ugly head.

We created and funded a terror group because of this cry for “Tamil Homelands”, when most of us come to Colombo when we can afford it, and then leave for Canada when we can cobble up even more funds.

By: cdw

cdw — Thu, 12 Mar 2009 02:17:48 +0000

If I understand this debate among you all, the issue of what are the ideals/ objectives, and how to achieve them (method, or means), did not get separated and cleanly discussed. Kumar David and Bopage seem to take the high-ground and insist on the human-rights stuff, but fail to see that the government is also claiming that they are doing all this to uphold the human rights of the Tamils who are in the clutches of the
Tigers. The Tigers are also claiming that they are doing all this to uphold the human rights of the Tamils. So i think it should have been a discussion of the efficiency/validity of the methods (i.e., means for achieving g the HR objectives). But instead it seems to have become a discussion about the ideals and ends (where I think, every one is in agreement) – Here KumarDavid and Bopage have struck a cheap holier than thou tone and got away with it.

[ However, if the objective were the achievement of the Marxistt Utopian, then KD and Bopage would presumably claim that the end justifies the means!!!!
oral relativsm indeed]

By: SomeOne1

SomeOne1 — Sat, 07 Mar 2009 15:02:27 +0000

Dear Bishan, this issue is so sensitive that only few people like Lional can talk straight and call spade a spade. Normally, you will hardly find people express their views freely. It is not worth the risk. Therefore, any statistical method chosen to judge the population will not give us the correct indication. In other wards, any samples chosen will not represent the true standing of the thamil population.

Secondly, the point in question is time, circumstance, and territory dependant. It is subjective and people are confused and they lost themselves. In other wards, they lost their clear and conscious mind. People are starving without food and dying without medicine and hospitals. Please put yourself in their(people in vanny) position and ask the question again.

By: SomeOne1

SomeOne1 — Sat, 07 Mar 2009 15:01:27 +0000

Dear Bishan, this issue is so sensitive that only few people like Lional can talk straight and call spade is a spade. Normally, you will hardly find people express their views freely. It is not worth the risk. Therefore, any statistical method chosen to judge the population will not give us the correct indication. In other wards, any samples chosen will not represent the true standing of the thamil population.

By: bishan

bishan — Sat, 07 Mar 2009 07:49:58 +0000

I have been reading these articles with interest. Thanks for all your viewpoints and perspectives.

There seems to be a simple difference of opinion her as to what the majority of the Tamil population feel with regards to the LTTE. Surely a more scientific answer to this question would be the best solution.

"but I do not hesitate to recognise that it does represent a sizeable proportion of Tamil political spectrum and aspiration."

Perhaps this is true, but please define "sizeable" and please let me know how you make this judgment? What is the sample you used to survey opinion of Sri Lankan Tamils? (please send a link to the study and methodology if it is available) Without a systematized well designed survey we are often left with "convenience sample" – ie people we move with, and not the people who we don't generally associate with – and we assume that this judgment is generalizable.

Agreed, that such a survey would be difficult to carry out, especially given that LTTE is a proscribed terrorist organisation in most countries and now Sri Lanka also. However, with a little ingenuity and if it were recognised to be important, I think a more scientific answer to the question of Tamils Sri Lankan's allegiance with the LTTE and or their views would be possible.

Otherwise the crux of this argument consists of largely speculation and opinion

thanks
bishan

By: A.R. M. Imtiyaz

A.R. M. Imtiyaz — Fri, 06 Mar 2009 18:12:33 +0000

Dear Lionel,

I just read your rejoinder to Dr. Robert's article on the LTTE in groundviews.

First, I agree with your understanding about the LTTE. I was really appalled to read Dr. Robert's views. I am sure those who prostituting their knowledge for power or serve power would love to stomach to Robert's ideas. Dayan is well know intellectual prostitute, sorry for my language, but this is the way my uncle, Mr. Abou Yousuf (former EPRLF led administration's [only one Muslim] minster and Dayan'c colleague at the EPRLF admin.), calls him –due to Dayan's well known ,but ugly service to the successive sinhala administrations and its running dogs.

second,for me, whether the LTTE employed ugly tactics, or it negatively hurt the Tamil resistance, history will address these questions. But it is sheer shame to support the oppressive forces and to justify their brutal actions and war, simply saying the group representing the oppressed employs terrorism. These justifications are highly political and clearly aimed to serve power and its elites as well as running dogs of the Sinhala power.

Third, As long as quislings (Dayan's buddies such as Devanda, Karuna) dominate the Tamil polity, it is kind of safe to assume that the Tamil extremists (likes of the LTTE) who pose serious challenges to the Sinhala state would dominate years to come even after the demise of the LTTE. I just wrote a piece to on this issue to Sundayleader. I don't know they would give space for my views.

And the last, let me wrap uo this email in your words–because that is what precisely I have been sharing for a while-

“I am no admirer of the LTTE or of its ideological and military tactics, but I do not hesitate to recognise that it does represent a sizeable proportion of Tamil political spectrum and aspiration. So it is politically untruthful to claim that any true rapprochement can be conducted or achieved without their participation. This will be the reality. Those politicians and bureaucrats who claim a settlement can be gained without the LTTE seem to be deluding themselves.”

By: Velu Balendran

Velu Balendran — Fri, 06 Mar 2009 16:01:19 +0000

Everyone shuts up when a spade is called a spade!
Well done Kumar

By: Aachcharya

Aachcharya — Mon, 02 Mar 2009 15:44:30 +0000

the last line defining moral relativists is on the spot. i would rather call dr roberts an apologist. its unbelievable that people like michael roberts, victor ivan (and to a lesser extent to the surprise element) dayan jayatilleke have all become apologists of this regime. actually i shoudnt be surprised. its naive on my part to have expected better from these gentleman. by the way dr roberts article is now on GOSL's official website: http://www.priu.gov.lk/opinion/opinion4.html. they must be very proud of having it there. i am sure dr roberts is also happy.

By: useless

useless — Mon, 02 Mar 2009 10:55:00 +0000

See the problem is that some people don’t realise the bigger chauvinist inside them! There are so many responses to Dr Roberts article because it has credence and truth in every word he said and it has struck a chord with another bunch of chauvinists. I never saw these concerned good fellows get agitated against articles defending atrocities by the LTTE. Nor do they realise that in times of fighting evil there are hard realities to comprehend. Which is what Dr. Roberts in my view tried to convey. Not plead allegiance to a side!! History has shown over and over examples of this as Dr. Roberts have expressed. Whatever the reason the man has made his point of view heard in a society that values freedom of speech and ideas. These poorly constructed “responses” only add to Dr. Roberts credence.